Connect With Today’s Guest
🌳 Miller Landscape & Outdoor Living: https://millerlandscape.com/
👤 Connect with Chuck Harkins: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuck-harkins-19835263/
🏢 Miller Landscape & Outdoor Living Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MillerLandscapeInc/
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Why Landscape Sales Have Changed
00:00
Chuck Harkins
In 2026. Nowadays there's companies can't hide anymore working within a team, not making it mean taking the eye out of team. You have to stir that into the pot along with just raw sales. We were talking earlier, it's not just belly to belly anymore.
00:19
Jack Jostes
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Landscaper's Guide. Today I'm with Chuck Harkins, the director of sales from Miller Landscape and Outdoor Living. We're recording this in Cincinnati, Ohio. We just finished doing a video shoot and Chuck, welcome to the Landscaper's Guide.
00:34
Chuck Harkins
Well, thanks for having me, Jack. Appreciate it.
00:37
Jack Jostes
How was doing the video shoot?
00:39
Chuck Harkins
The video shoot was great. We had some glitches, we had some technical difficulties, but boy, we worked through it flawlessly.
00:45
Jack Jostes
We did. We got it all done. And there's a lot of little technical things that just have to go perfectly. And one of them was using the teleprompter. And it's supposed to advance, but it didn't. So I wanted to give a shout out to Lucas. What was the nickname we came up for Lucas?
01:02
Chuck Harkins
Lucas is HS Cruzen, meaning Human Scroll. Human Scroll. How about that?
Why Miller Landscape Is Investing In Video
01:10
Jack Jostes
So Lucas was advancing the teleprompter. So thank you, Lucas. And why are we doing video? Why would a landscape company do video? This is our second video shoot together, my actual third one with your company. Why are we doing video?
01:24
Chuck Harkins
Well, we're doing video to relay to the customer. Jack, that design for your landscape project is very important to invest in. And the reason for that is getting some kind of a visual before the install is actually done. And we want to make sure that we're accounting for everything that goes into it.
01:44
Jack Jostes
Yeah. And a lot of people who haven't worked in the landscape industry don't know all that goes into the design that they're going to receive and why it's so important.
01:53
Chuck Harkins
Correct. Yeah. So the big things are you have to account for not only the way it's going to look and the way it's going to function, but all of the surprises that can come up if they're not accounted for. Like there could be HOA requirements involved with installing your project. Also, there could be drainage requirements, permits that are needed, things of that nature that could come up if they're not accounted for later after you're already committed to a contractor.
What Miller Landscape & Outdoor Living Does
02:21
Jack Jostes
So for folks listening who haven't heard of Miller, tell us a little bit. Who are you and what does the company do?
02:28
Chuck Harkins
Well, my name's Chuck. I'm the director of sales for Miller Landscape and Outdoor Living. So Basically what we do is we install projects, both residential and commercial, mostly for residential. We do high end installs anywhere from 50,000 to 100k plus. We also do the maintaining as well. We can do the grass cutting, we can do the snow and ice management. We can also do irrigation work. Whether we turn the system on or shut it down, we can do repairs on that. And we can also do a variety of other things in that weekly or monthly maintaining side of the business.
How Marketing Has Improved The Sales Process
03:06
Jack Jostes
And we've been working together for a few years now. What are some of the things that we've done together and what are some of the ways that it's impacted your work specifically in sales?
03:18
Chuck Harkins
Well, the specific thing through you and Ramble and Jackson and the entire fantastic team that's here, including hs. The big thing is this, Jack. I don't want to go on a tangent or anything like that, but the thing that I'm going to focus on the most is the website. We were kind of in the dinosaur category of the website per se and we really needed a very big upgrade to kind of get everything to the times on how people operate and visualize a company that they want to work with.
03:50
Chuck Harkins
So Ramblin Jackson has done a great job and helping us organize that, weed out the stuff that we don't need, add the new stuff that we do need, but also give us props on some of the stuff that we already had in the website and kind of stir that all up into a gumbo that everybody wants to eat.
Why Miller Landscape Publishes Pricing Online
04:10
Jack Jostes
Tell me a little bit about the pricing page. You know, so this is one of the key things that we've worked with you on. And I wish I was recording later because you were talking about how you use it as a salesperson. So talk to me like, I guess so folks that I work with. I often get a lot of resistance to the idea of having a pricing page. And did you guys have that feeling at first also within the company?
04:34
Chuck Harkins
I truly wanted that right away.
04:36
Jack Jostes
Oh, you wanted it right away?
04:37
Chuck Harkins
Yeah. Jeremy, who you have done a podcast with before, he was a little reluctant on that. We had some discussions on it. So the great thing about the pricing page on the website is I can use it when I'm talking to people in person and take different snippets of information from that. When I'm having a verbal conversation like with you now and again, take it right from that pricing page and then let them know later, toward the end of the conversation, hey, if you want to go back and fact check us or price check Us or whatever you want to do. I'm taking this directly from what's already available to you on the website.
05:18
Chuck Harkins
So that's really helped a lot because when customers go and see that pricing page, they get a lot of commonality, meaning projects that we can install usually fall in between this low end range and this high end range. So, for example, a very meaty or big retaining wall usually costs anywhere between 10 to $20,000, depending on what it's retaining and the height of the wall. So if people can see that or potential customers can see that on our website, that helps them get a better understanding of what budget they'll need to get that retaining wall.
How Pricing Content Changes Sales Conversations
05:56
Jack Jostes
And so how do customers, how has this changed sales conversations? You know, before you didn't have a pricing page. Now you do, like, how's it going? How do customers respond?
06:07
Chuck Harkins
Well, the great part is These days, in 2026, people are checking out our website before they even place a call to us. So a lot of the customers that I talk to, I'm going, of the 100% that I see in a week, 80 to 90% have already gone to our website and did their homework. So they've viewed our pricing page so we can get into more detail on what that all entails before I even go out there or while I'm out there.
06:35
Jack Jostes
So does it make getting to a final budget faster or easier?
06:39
Chuck Harkins
100%. Sometimes they have their max budget that they want to spend on their project when I'm taking the initial phone call or talking to them the initial time.
06:48
Jack Jostes
And do you find that they're more realistic, like they're in range?
06:53
Chuck Harkins
100%? Yeah, 100%. Landscaping is expensive.
06:56
Jack Jostes
It is expensive.
06:57
Chuck Harkins
It's. It's not a cheap endeavor, especially if you want to renovate your property, whether it's residential or your business property. If you're doing a big change, whether it's for a new build and you want to jazz it up on the outside because it's time to do that, or it's something where you've had landscape and hardscape in for 25, 30, 40 years. It gives you a good understanding in 2026 what you have to budget for. Depending on the changes you want to.
How Commercial Buyers Research Contractors
07:23
Jack Jostes
Do, you find a similar result with commercial buyers. Like, are they using it like the website?
07:30
Chuck Harkins
Yeah, they can. Because a lot of the times you're not directly talking to a decision maker that owns a business. These days, there's an assistant, a vice president or something like that's doing the Research on you first and then reporting to the decision maker to kind of back up, you know, the relevancy or the importance of the project that they want to do. So that's helped a lot because even though a vice president or an assistant is quote, unquote, spending somebody else's money because it's not their own castle or their own home, they still need to do some research to validate costs to the person that owns the company.
08:09
Jack Jostes
Yeah, that makes sense that it's not always the final decision maker maybe viewing it, but the person who's been tasked with, hey, go get three estimates for this commercial installation project.
08:20
Chuck Harkins
And we've all been tasked with things. So, you know, whether you're at the top of the chain or somewhere in the middle, for example, you still need to do a little research and some homework to get the gears turning on possibly making that come to fruition.
Using AI To Help Customers Compare Proposals
08:35
Jack Jostes
What? One of the things that we came up with during the shoot today was to send your customers an AI prompt. And so I'm excited to do that and see. See if we can do it. Because the fact is, people, buyers are going to put your proposal in AI, and if they're getting other proposals, they're going. They're going to put your proposal and the other company's proposal in there. I say we can't stop them from doing that, but maybe we can influence prompt. And so that was the idea we came up with today. I'm just excited to see how it goes.
09:12
Chuck Harkins
I'm pretty stoked about it, to be honest. Jack, it was a great idea that you came up with initially, and we kind of collaborated on. As were talking, we injected it into some of the script that were using today. And with a little bit of gentle arm turning, I think we're going to be able to put that in process. I think that's really going to help the trust factor of our company, the transparency factor of our company.
09:37
Jack Jostes
Well, I think. I think it will, because we have a choice as salespeople in how we respond to competition. And we can either be defensive and angry, unhelpful, secretive, or we can just be helpful and transparent. And I'm on the transparent side of things and helping people. Hey, it's normal. Hey, it's normal. If you're going to spend $100,000. Most of our clients end up getting another proposal. Would it be okay if I gave you some ideas of things to look for when you compare our proposal against somebody else's?
10:15
Chuck Harkins
Yeah, it's a great concept. And let's face it, if you don't go into this knowing that they're going to check other contractors anyway, at least one more, if not two on average, then you're fooling yourself. But the big thing is, you sure are. Yeah, you're fooling yourself. But the other thing is, in 2026, nowadays, companies can't hide anymore. If somebody wants to work with you and they really want to find out things about you in any category, they're going to be able to find it through all the facets that we have nowadays. So the more transparent and upfront that you are, again, strengthening that transparency and that trust is huge. And this idea of the AI portal and comparing things right off the jump is going to help with that tremendously.
Chuck’s Journey From Sales Rep To Director Of Sales
11:05
Jack Jostes
Chuck, how did you become a director of sales at. At a landscape company?
11:11
Chuck Harkins
How did I become a director?
11:12
Jack Jostes
Yeah. I'm curious, like, what are all the different things you've done to get to where you are?
11:17
Chuck Harkins
Okay. Well, I did start with Miller Landscape and Outdoor living back in 2009, and I was a sales representative that came on board. I was their very first sales representative that they ever had outside of the family name, the Miller name. And my job was to go into action for the first year and see how it would take because again, you know, back in six, meaning 2006, seven, eight, nine and 10, you know, things were a little up and down about, you know, if things were going to move forward or if things were going to stay stagnant and, you know, doors were going to need to be shut. But, you know, again, starting there, rolling forward.
12:03
Chuck Harkins
Once I was able to get the motors going and things of that nature with the team at Miller at the time, were able to bring on another sales representative in 2011, and then we've just, you know, kind of soared forward from there. Fast forward to a couple of years ago. I did get promoted to being the director of sales for Miller Landscape and Outdoor Living, and now I oversee the department. I handle a lot of the marketing and things of that nature. So consistency, selling clean, working within a team, not making it, me taking the eye out of team has been a very big contributing factor as to why I'm here today in 2026.
12:45
Jack Jostes
Has that been a shift for you? Was there, was there a time where there more me focus than team focus?
12:51
Chuck Harkins
There really wasn't. You know, again, we want to keep me out of it. We want to keep the letter I out of team and, you know, yes.
12:58
Jack Jostes
Why is that important in sales?
13:00
Chuck Harkins
Oh, the team is 100% important in sales because you're not going to be the one with the sole answer for what needs to be done. Yes, I'm a sales representative in a sales department, but there's going to be other members of the team that I need to feel I can trust to go to. To maybe get some ideas or, you know, some different, you know, ingredients for the stew to, you know, make a soup that everybody wants to eat.
The Sales Metrics Chuck Pays Attention To
13:30
Jack Jostes
What are. Aside from, you know, being a team player, what are some of the. Are there metrics or behaviors or things that you obsess over in your own selling and then how you manage other salespeople?
13:41
Chuck Harkins
I see what you're saying. So, yeah, the metrics are huge. Metrics are huge. And that's where your company comes in, you know, with the metrics, tracking leads, seeing what those leads turn into. Are they a disqualified lead, for example, are they a warm lead? Are they a lead that looked at our website and decided to move on? Or are they a lead that looked at our website and gave us a call and it spun into a sale? Eventually? Keeping an eye on those metrics and that data is huge. It's. It's very huge. And Ramblin Jackson has come into play, you know, these last two, three years with us to help strengthen that. Keeping up with the times is probably the most important thing.
14:23
Chuck Harkins
You know, I'll admit we admitted when were talking during the whole video shoot and everything like that a little earlier today that, hey, you know, we need to update and get with The Times. It's 2026. It's not 2006, it's not 2016. Things constantly change. You mentioned to me about the whole setup of how you film things and how every three, four, five years, you're constantly upgrading your equipment with the lighting and the cameras and all of that stuff. And it's the same thing with sales,.
Why Landscape Sales Teams Need To Keep Evolving
15:00
Jack Jostes
I think it is. And to me, that's exciting. I think some people are stressed out by the change, and to me, it keeps it interesting. And I love the gear. I mean, the lights that we have are lighter and smaller than I have. I have some lights that are in my home studio that are. I mean, they're literally the. They're this big and they look amazing. But to travel with them would be, I don't know, another $300 just to bring that light.
15:26
Chuck Harkins
Right.
15:27
Jack Jostes
Whereas I can bring these two. And they work great. No one would know that the difference. So it's exciting to me. It's exciting. I get to do this work and keep up with what's changing. And it's also, to me, it's a time to disrupt what's happening in landscape sales. Like, like us sending an AI prompt to your competition one year like 100 years ahead of the competitors who are too afraid to have a pricing page 100%. And like, do you think those people are going to give their customer an AI prompt?
16:00
Chuck Harkins
There's not many out there that'll do that.
16:02
Jack Jostes
No. And so your customer is gonna be like, wow, Chuck. Chuck is literally telling me to compare him against his competitors and he's, his pricing actually matches was in his guide. I think you're just going to crush the competition.
16:17
Chuck Harkins
Yeah.
16:17
Jack Jostes
With that confidence and that transparency. And I, I love, to me it's exciting to get to work with people like you guys who are also marketing forward. So you're a marketing forward sales director.
16:29
Chuck Harkins
Correct.
Why Marketing And Sales Can’t Operate Separately
16:29
Jack Jostes
Because some salespeople are like, oh, marketing's a joke. All we need to do is hit these behavior metrics of calls, follow ups and we'll do our thing. I don't see that working anymore. Because you know the research that you were saying like 90, I don't know if you said it in the podcast or earlier. It's kind of a blur. 90% Of your customers have read the website before they ever contact you.
16:54
Chuck Harkins
Correct.
16:54
Jack Jostes
And so that marketing has a huge impact on that sales conversation you're going to have.
17:01
Chuck Harkins
It's, it's great that you said that because that's exactly what it is to get people to go to the website. You've got to market your website. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, here's how you get to our website. Sure. You know, and that's huge. But the big thing with the marketing is, I agree with you have to stir that into the pot along with just raw sales. We were talking earlier, it's not just belly to belly anymore. You know, you get these different age groups. There's couples that are, you know, 25 to 30 to 40, even 40 to 45. Nowadays you take a 45 year old down to a 25 year old and they're looking to invest in their home with a landscape project. Whether it's a new build or they moved into somewhere that's been up since 1960.
17:47
Chuck Harkins
They're going to research you through different ways than maybe somebody old school would just pick up the phone and call or meet you at a conference or something like that.
17:58
Jack Jostes
One, one thing I just listened to this stuff you should know podcast, if you heard of it's a really cool podcast, and it was about demographics. I learned that baby boomers actually spend the most screen time of all the generations. So a lot of. There's like a myth that, like, oh, younger people that grew up with social media they're using. No, it's actually baby boomers are spending the most screen time.
18:22
Chuck Harkins
I'd have to look into that because, well, I think people that are in the baby boom era probably spend the most of their screen time on Instagram, Quicks, YouTube, Shorts, Facebook. Yeah, Facebook, stuff like that. Or.
18:38
Jack Jostes
Or the screen time, I think may include tv.
18:41
Chuck Harkins
Probably could be the TV screen.
18:43
Jack Jostes
It could be the TV screen. But in any case, people of all ages are using all these tools that are available.
18:49
Chuck Harkins
Right, right. And. And, and your company has helped us tremendously, kind of recalibrate a lot of the things that we're doing in our everyday to make sure that we stay current with all of that. Not only in the sales department, but we've. We've got our project department, we've got our maintenance department, we've got our front office. You know, everyone from top to bottom as far as what they contribute to the team, everybody's 100% important. So anybody that walks through that door every day, male or female, we want them to know that their role is just as important as anyone's. Because when we're selling and we're marketing team Miller Landscape and outdoor living.
19:32
Chuck Harkins
And if we're not living up to that with whatever we do, cut the grass, install a brick paver seating wall, or anywhere above or below that, as far as what we're doing over there, no matter how minor or major, if we're marketing ourselves as a company that's 60 years old plus, and soaring forward and not looking back, you know, we need to match those expectations no matter what we're doing.
19:59
Jack Jostes
Well, Chuck, I know you've got to drive back to Michigan. Yeah. And we've got to catch lunch. Maybe. Maybe we can get some lunch.
20:06
Chuck Harkins
Maybe we can get some lunch. We'll see what happens.
20:08
Jack Jostes
All right.
20:08
Chuck Harkins
You know, we're in the Natty.
20:09
Jack Jostes
We're in the Natty.
20:10
Chuck Harkins
I heard about all this chili. There's a five level, a four level,.
20:14
Jack Jostes
Three level Skyline chili. It was onion. They put. They put cinnamon in it. It.
20:19
Chuck Harkins
They put cinnamon in the chili.
20:21
Jack Jostes
I've never had cinnamon in the chilies.
20:22
Chuck Harkins
Cinnamon in the chili. I'm out. I'm out of cinnamon.
20:25
Jack Jostes
I think you need to go back to Michigan then.
20:27
Chuck Harkins
Yeah, maybe I need to.
20:28
Jack Jostes
I don't know, some traditional Michigan chili.
20:30
Chuck Harkins
Get some pasties maybe, you know, that's. That's what the up is famous for. So maybe we'll get some pasties.
20:37
Jack Jostes
What are, what are pasties?
20:38
Chuck Harkins
Pasties are basically a meat potato, vegetables, like carrots, celery, onion. We'll call it a pastry. So it's kind of baked in a pie crust.
20:50
Jack Jostes
Oh, it sounds like a, like pot pie to go.
20:54
Chuck Harkins
Yeah. I'm not going to give away all the secrets.
20:55
Jack Jostes
Okay.
20:56
Chuck Harkins
So technically it's in the pot pie family, but if you haven't spent any.
21:00
Jack Jostes
Time, it's like a portable pot pie.
21:02
Chuck Harkins
A portable pot pie.
21:03
Jack Jostes
So you could drive and eat it.
21:05
Chuck Harkins
We're not talking Marie calendar. We're not talking Marie calendars. We're talking homemade Upper Peninsula, some people belong to Wisconsin, some people belong to Michigan type pasties.
21:16
Jack Jostes
Okay.
21:16
Chuck Harkins
Real meat, real potatoes, real carrots, real celery, onion if you want. No cinnamon. Yeah, okay.
21:24
Jack Jostes
All right. Well, Chuck, thanks for coming on the Landscapers Guide. Where can people connect with you if they want to reach out, ask a question?
21:31
Chuck Harkins
Well, you can reach out to me@c harkinsillerlandscape.com you can reach out to me through my LinkedIn page, and you can reach out to me via millerlandscape.com so all three of those facets are best.
21:45
Jack Jostes
Cool, Chuck. Well, thanks for coming on the podcast. It's been fun.
21:48
Chuck Harkins
Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. It's been a great day here in the Natty.
21:52
Jack Jostes
Yeah, Here in the Natty.
21:53
Chuck Harkins
Here in The Natty. With H.S. Yes.
21:56
Jack Jostes
And R.F.
21:57
Chuck Harkins
Randy.
21:58
Jack Jostes
Randy.
21:58
Chuck Harkins
We got Randy. Yeah.
22:00
Jack Jostes
All right, we're rolling. All right.
22:02
Chuck Harkins
Thank you. All right.
22:03
Jack Jostes
All right.
22:04
Chuck Harkins
Jackie J.
22:05
Jack Jostes
Hey, it's Jack justice and you've been listening to the Landscapers Guide podcast. If you'd like to be like Chuck, if you'd like to get your sales marketing, get your digital marketing dialed in so it makes selling easier. Let's have a 15 minute marketing brainstorm call where we'll learn about your hell yes customer, your sales process, and help you figure out how to get more of those customers finding you online, ready to buy. Book your call at landscapersguide.com/brainstorm and see a link in our show notes. Again, my name's Jack and I look forward to talking with you next week on the Landscaper's Guide.