Connect With Today’s Guest
🌳 Yellow Wagon Landscaping: https://yellowwagonlandscaping.com/
👤 Connect with Andrew Lala: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-lala-927a992a9/
📸 Yellow Wagon Landscaping Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/YellowWagonLandscaping
🏢 Yellow Wagon Landscaping Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yellowwagonlandscaping
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00:00 – What You Want From Your Business Can Change
00:00
Andrew Lala
What you want then 20 years ago is maybe not what you want now. And finding the right person is what's intimidating me about the process. I think good can come out of situations, unless you're forced into uncomfortable situations or pushing boundaries or making hard decisions.
00:13
Jack Jostes
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the Landscaper's Guide podcast. Today I'm excited to interview my client, Andrew Lala. He's the founder of Yellow Wagon Landscaping. Andrew, welcome to the Landscaper's Guide.
00:24
Andrew Lala
Thank you for having me.
00:26 – The Story Behind Yellow Wagon Landscaping
00:26
Jack Jostes
So tell us a little bit. What is Yellow Wagon Landscaping? Where are you guys based and what do you do?
00:32
Andrew Lala
Sure. So Yellow Wagon Landscaping is a now award winning full service landscape design, build and maintenance company. We're based out of Fort Lee, New Jersey. So northern New Jersey, right by New York City. And we operate within that, within multiple landscape types, commercial and residential, throughout that whole corridor near New York City.
00:55
Jack Jostes
And how did you get the name Yellow Wagon Landscaping?
00:59
Andrew Lala
Well, it's one of those stories that you can't buy or try to write. We just simply bought a yellow wagon when were 14 years old, my business partner and I at the time, because we couldn't drive, we didn't have licenses, and that's how we pulled our landscaping equipment around.
01:15
Jack Jostes
What kind of wagon was it?
01:17
Andrew Lala
It was a typical garden cart from Lowe's or Home Depot at the time. It was painted yellow. Not our original choice. And we had a little hitch welded on the back tow our lawnmower. Behind it piled the rest of our equipment in the inside, and the rest is history.
01:33
Jack Jostes
That's amazing. You know, I, I can't, I, I don't think I grew up seeing yellow wagons.
01:37
Andrew Lala
No. Everybody gets. So we get all the time. We get yellow school bus landscaping, red wagon landscaping, because that's more common. But once people learn the story, they usually, it usually sticks.
01:49
Jack Jostes
So I, well, I love the name. I love the story. And so you started it when you were 14 and so. And you've had the company over 20 years.
02:00 – Building A Business That Can Grow Beyond The Owner
02:00
Andrew Lala
Yes.
02:00
Jack Jostes
Where are you headed with the company? What do you, what's, what's your vision for where the company is heading?
02:06
Andrew Lala
Well, you know, I mean, it starts as something so, as so common as just a way to, you know, a way to make money, a way to be outside, work with my friend, do things I loved. And that really translated at the time to become an amalgamation of all the things that I really loved, you know, being creative and it kind of grew from there and from there, you know, what you want then 20 years ago is maybe not what you want now.
02:36
Andrew Lala
And for me, one of the biggest transformations and where I want to take the company now is finding that same satisfaction that I got from actually building the landscapes and doing the hands on work previously into creating a really healthy, scalable, growing business that, you know, utilizes a lot of the same skill sets and concepts to make the business healthy and get the same satisfaction of bill seeing and building something that's alive on its own.
03:09
Jack Jostes
What, you know, when we had dinner last night with a bunch of clients of mine from the Philly Jersey area, which was really fun, and one of the things you were talking about is. So you're a licensed landscape architect. Correct. And so one of the things that you've been really hands in the history of the company is the design build projects. You're the main designer. Do you do the sales for that?
03:33
Andrew Lala
Yes.
03:33
Jack Jostes
And so where are you heading? How is that part of the business evolving and how is your role in it gonna evolve?
03:42 – When The Owner Becomes The Bottleneck
03:42
Andrew Lala
Yeah, so it's been very challenging to maintain the ability to actually do the design work, do a lot of the design, sales and project manage the projects as the company has grown. And we've definitely hit this inflection point where it's just not sustainable. You know, I've purposely kind of held back the growth of that division of the company because I know my own limitations. So, you know, we may have six to eight crews going out every day. One of them is really design build because at least I know I can control that and maintain the quality and keep up with the demands of that. But still I was finding myself spending almost 50% of my time working on a division of the company that was really only responsible for maybe 15% of our revenue.
04:30
Andrew Lala
So, you know, I was doing a disservice to everybody and a disservice to the company. So we are at the point now where we're needing to, I'm going to be needing to replace a lot of the sales and design work, you know, with a permanent hire that can really take it, grow it a little bit more and make it the division that it should be and you know, continue our quality jobs that we've been known for in the future.
05:02
Jack Jostes
What's exciting about that and then what's also like maybe something you don't like about it?
05:08 – The Challenge Of Finding The Right Person
05:08
Andrew Lala
Yeah, it's definitely nerve wracking. And I could say I've put off this process for longer than I should have without a doubt, years ago. I should have been doing this. I've been holding back our growth, you know, letting go. I'm not so afraid of letting go of the design aspect of it that like, they're going to design something that I don't like. But I, I, I guess I'm, I live in this world where it's, it's hard to find that person that's going to be able to do the things that I've been doing and wear all the different hats and maybe that's going to be several people over time. But I guess the finding the right person is what's intimidating me about the process. Almost like I'm looking for this imaginary person that won't arrive. But you got to get started with the process.
05:50
Jack Jostes
How much, how much of the design process do you actually have written out as a process that somebody could follow? And how much of it is just.
05:59
Andrew Lala
Andrew, I, you know, whether I have it actually written down currently, I'm not sure. But I do have a pretty clear idea in my head of how I approach projects and how we approach projects. So I actually, there's a lot of things that might challenge me is to determine, you know, look in and say, who are we and why do we do the things we do and how do we do them? The design build aspect of it is actually something I think I can define pretty clearly because there it is rooted in a lot of tangible elements that I'm looking for to accomplish in a project.
06:33
Jack Jostes
Good. Yeah, I'm kind of in a similar phase in my own business in that we're hiring a Director of delivery is what we're calling it. And some companies might, they might be a Director of technology or Director of production. It's kind of been a hard title for, but we're calling it Director of Delivery. And I'm really excited. We actually have somebody starting on Monday.
06:55
Andrew Lala
Oh, great.
06:56
Jack Jostes
Who, who we're really excited about. We're feeling really confident and went through a really thorough interview process and multiple team members interviewed this person. And so what I've been doing over the last year, like I knew that I was going to need to do this is I, I use Apple notes and I have a note for that role and I started a numbered list of things that I did for that I would want this person to do. And then I, and then I, I like kept little notes on like how I made the decision. And this actually today, later today, I'm meeting with one of my team members to finish the onboarding plan for this person.
07:35
Jack Jostes
And I'm really glad that I kept that list because I wrote into their onboarding plan a number of stories of things that happened in the last year and how I handled it and how I would want them to handle it. And then I'm going to share that with them and be like, how would you handle it? So that's one of the things that. That's how I'm approaching this. I'm kind of inventing this role. I think, you know, landscape designer is more of an established role, but there's also, like, your way of doing it. And what I'm getting at is that's how I've. I'm hoping to then give this person, like, hey, here. Like, one of them is like, vendor negotiation. I have vendors and I need to negotiate with them, and it takes a lot of time.
08:17
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
08:17
Jack Jostes
And so I have all these little documents that are like, here's how I arrived at this price that we agreed to.
08:25
Andrew Lala
Yeah. I mean, that's. You named a bunch of challenges that come especially when you're kind of creating a, you know, a position from. From maybe needs that the company has. That maybe is not a clearly defined role.
08:39 – Creating New Roles And Managing Business Data
08:39
Jack Jostes
We.
08:39
Andrew Lala
We've also done something similar where, you know, simultaneously to bringing on this, you know, really designer, salesperson, project manager, which has a lot of pats to wear, but is. We also began using Aspire software a few years ago, and the management of that information is extremely valuable to us to inform our decisions. But if that information is not cared for well and is not like there's not a steward of that information, it's almost useless.
09:10
Jack Jostes
Yeah.
09:11
Andrew Lala
So we began hiring. We were also searching. We transitioned one of our current account managers into a production administrator position, which is something that kind of developed and was a little loosely defined. But to really be the steward of that information, take that management off of the plates of the account managers. And we're doing the same process right now, trying to really define and get on paper. All right, what is this person responsible for? How do we hold them accountable to it? How do we know when they're too busy? How do we know when they're not busy enough? All those questions have to be answered. It's challenging.
09:45
Jack Jostes
It is. It is. Yeah. And kind of inventing the. Yeah. Knowing the people's capacity is a difficult one.
09:53
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
09:53
Jack Jostes
It's a difficult thing to keep track of. And like, I agree with what you said as far aspire or really any business software, if you don't have people feeding it and like maintaining it with the right data, it really is useless.
10:10
Andrew Lala
Yeah. Yeah.
10:11
Jack Jostes
So what will this designer. How will. How does that relate to the designer role?
10:17
Andrew Lala
Well, you know, I guess it's. As I'm sure many other business owners know. You know, there are really some clear definitions between the maintenance division and the design build division and how those need to operate. This position is primarily for the maintenance end of the. Of the company. Maintenance and enhancements, maybe plant healthcare applications. And so they're. They're probably not going to interface too much those two positions, the designer. Because at this point, with one crew doing, and maybe that will grow to a crew and a half, we do have our landscape lighting division as well, kind of operate under the design build umbrella and they'll manage those crews, but it might be still manageable for that one person to do those things.
11:04
Andrew Lala
But as soon as you grow beyond that, then we'd have to see if that person would have to be involved in the other divisions.
11:11 – Getting Half Of The Owner’s Time Back
11:11
Jack Jostes
So I think you said that you're spending like half of your time as a landscape designer. Is that.
11:17
Andrew Lala
Without a doubt?
11:18
Jack Jostes
Yeah.
11:18
Andrew Lala
I mean, because if you just think about, you know, if we have a large outdoor living project going on and, you know, I have great people who work for us and great foremen, but I've always, you know, and maybe I've micromanaged too much to the point where, you know, they really want my reassurance on a lot of things before they execute in. In certain areas. And you know, a visit to a job site, you know, could eat up your whole morning like that, you know, and if you have one meeting, you know, one, maybe one few phone consults, a meeting and a site visit to.
11:54
Jack Jostes
Sure.
11:54
Andrew Lala
To an ongoing job, your day's half over, you know, and then try to actually actively get your other estimates done and work on other aspects of. Of the business. The entire other divisions that, yes, I have leadership and managers to help with, but, you know, you have to decide on that, chart the course for the entire company. So, you know, it just became really evident that I need. This was necessary.
12:17 – Where Andrew Wants To Invest His Time Next
12:17
Jack Jostes
What do you, what do you think you'd do? Let's pretend that you got half of your time back. What would you, what would you work on next? Or how would you.
12:23
Andrew Lala
Oh, God, you know, I mean, there's just even from a marketing perspective, like where we're doing now, you know, the work I've done with Ramblin, just to really get, you know, consistent Campaigns out make decisions on, you know, the direction, the messaging and the mission of the company. You know, sometimes when you're in the weeds, it's hard to lose sight of the bigger picture. So yeah, you know, marketing in that perspective, building up our processes and our systems of, of doing things that, you know, have not been fully cooked because you just don't have time like, you know, fully developing onboarding processes for new hires, you know, I'm big on having, you know, trackable results and, and giving people expectations. But if you don't have that written down anywhere like you said, and that just takes time to develop it.
13:18
Jack Jostes
Well, excuse me, it does take time. It does take time to develop and then maintaining it and like keeping all these things updated I think is the, yeah. And the hard part. In many ways it is completely.
13:35
Andrew Lala
So it has to be simple. You know, it has to be like if you can't record, if you can't really recall it quickly without searching through notes and stuff, like your people are not going to find these systems and processes like in Word documents or in your notes that you say you keep, you know, like it has to be.
13:51
Jack Jostes
Yeah, yeah.
13:52
Andrew Lala
Be able to be recalled quickly for sure.
13:54
Jack Jostes
Yeah. And the note was a means of like, okay, I knew that at some point I'm going to need to write an actual onboarding plan.
14:01
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
14:01 – Returning To Marketing And Clarifying The Company’s Direction
14:01
Jack Jostes
And so the note, it, get, it comes out of the note for me into this thing that I'm now sharing with somebody. But yeah, all the, all those different things. So yeah, tell me about the marketing work. So like we originally worked together four years ago. I think it was longer.
14:16
Andrew Lala
It was, it was over five years ago.
14:18
Jack Jostes
It was maybe, yeah, it was even longer than that. And we worked with you on your website, on your local SEO, helping you get found. And then we were kind of more of in like a maintenance support mode and then now we're doing videos, we're shooting videos here. So tell me about what kind of led to the, you know, focus on marketing again and what all are we doing?
14:41
Andrew Lala
Well, about the time that we initially started working together, my long term business partner and I decided to go our separate ways and he was exiting the industry. So I, I, I took ownership of the full ownership of the company at that time and that was a really. I don't recommend anybody try to launch a website or work with a marketing company that asks you to reflect inward as much as you did with us at a time when you're going through so much turmoil. Because it was very. I felt I wasn't able to fully invest in the process because I'm a big believer in you get out what you put in. We couldn't really fully invest in it.
15:23
Andrew Lala
And you forced us to ask some really tough questions that should be easy to answer about who we are and what makes us who we are, what we want our ideal customer to be. And that was a very hard. Very, very much more challenging than I expected. So we had to just get through the process at the time, launch the website, and then it took four or five years for me to feel comfortable enough in a spot where I was confident enough about the direction of the company and about our needs to re engage with Ramblin and begin building a critical pipeline for any business. I mean, to undervalue marketing is a really huge mistake. And if we want to keep growing or we want to even just feed what we've created already, you need to fuel that with something and enter Ramblin.
16:13
Andrew Lala
So we did a year of some work, more work together where we just built out our pages again. We've established some really good, solid rankings and stuff. And now I wanted to develop that even further to really target the client. We want, develop the website a little more with actual. Again, you know, actual useful items that are going to help, you know, find the right customers for us and, you know, and tools that can help us along the way.
16:42 – Navigating A Difficult Business Partnership Transition
16:42
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I mean, that was a significant life event to, you know, to disband with your former business partner and friend. Yep, that was. Yeah, that's. I've done it. I've done it.
16:57
Andrew Lala
And you know. Yeah, you only. You have to go through it really, I think, to understand, you know, I don't wish it on anybody, but that was just our experience. Just, Just because it's tough. Even as, as amicable as it can be, it's still just a very tough thing to, you know, you've built a partnership or whatever and a business that becomes like a, like a family member to you know, and to have to split that up, you know, I liken it to like a, you know, thankfully never had to go through it, but a divorce, you know, and it's tough.
17:25
Jack Jostes
I haven't been divorced luckily either, and I think it was like a business divorce really. I mean, because. Yeah. And then you have to talk about assets and you have lawyers, involved bankers and like all the.
17:43
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
17:44
Jack Jostes
All the fun part of business.
17:45
Andrew Lala
Exactly.
17:45
Jack Jostes
Is on the table, and there's the relationship side, too. And,.
17:52
Andrew Lala
Yeah, it's part.
17:53
Jack Jostes
It's hard.
17:54
Andrew Lala
Part mediation, part legalese.
17:57
Jack Jostes
Yeah. And then you have a team involved. Yeah. So it's a very difficult business and social experience to go through to then also. Yeah, we're like, yeah, you know, tell us about the history of the company. It's like, well, there's. Yeah, it's just murky. And. Yeah, I also saw you guys. I think you did a good job. You know what I mean? Like, I, I also. I don't know him very well. I had him on the podcast. But I think that you guys did it as amicably and professionally as possible, and it.
18:26
Andrew Lala
- I believe we did. And, and ultimately, nothing comes out of, you know, nothing good can come out of situations unless you. You're forced into uncomfortable situations or pushing boundaries or making hard decisions. Right. You know, so ultimately, it was 100% the right move for everybody. And. And it, you know, we wouldn't be where we are today without, like, having gone through that.
18:47
Jack Jostes
Well, yeah. And. And now. Yeah, now you're. You're kind of like, back in growth mode. So that's. That was kind of like almost a survival mode.
18:56
Andrew Lala
Oh, right.
18:57
Jack Jostes
You know, it's like, how do I. How do I survive this?
18:59
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
18:59
Jack Jostes
So we're like, all right, we're just going to, like, host your website and, like, we'll talk.
19:02
Andrew Lala
We'll.
19:02
Jack Jostes
We'll. We'll talk when you're.
19:04
Andrew Lala
And we had. We had begun the process before. We knew that this split was going to happen. So, sure, we entered into it with a completely different mindset from how we left it. And, you know, God bless your. The, The. The. The Ramblin, you know, staff for being patient with us and talking me off the ledge a couple times, and I felt badly when I wasn't able to maybe deliver on deadlines when I promised and stuff, because, yeah, you know, we're all working towards this thing. I know what it's like to, you know, we all know what it's like working with a frustrating client. Right. When you're not getting what you need to do your job and deliver for them, it's tough.
19:35
Jack Jostes
Well, we got it done and, you know, we. We understood what was going on and, you know, so, yeah, I'm excited, though, to be. To be working with you. Tell me, why are we. So we're here in Philadelphia right now.
19:46
Andrew Lala
Right.
19:46 – Using Video To Create Consistent Brand Messaging
19:46
Jack Jostes
And why are we. And we did a video shoot today. How was that? So we did a shoot on the teleprompter. We recorded some videos for your website and social media. How was that?
19:57
Andrew Lala
It was, it was great and I think 100% necessary. You know, I think, okay, everybody speaks about content these days, and yes, that's important, and it is important for us. But just as much as I was saying about just getting clear messaging across to what we are and who we stand for and, you know, certain little devices, like you're worried about how, you know, your new hire is going to do things the way you would do things. Well, there's really no better substitute to make sure that potential clients walk away knowing your messaging and your brand other than literally telling them, you know, in no uncertain terms. And, and so your, your salespeople may have different styles of doing things, but, you know, you can at least let them leave with the consistent messaging.
20:46
Jack Jostes
That's, that's my favorite part about video is that once you make it, I, I always joke like, it can't get Covid. It can't call in sick. It doesn't forget. Right. Something like one, you. You put a lot of effort into that script, the scripts of the videos, and now you have it. And it's a really powerful way to communicate to people. And the amazing thing that a lot of my clients tell me after they've done video is that once they go to sell or whatever, people are like, oh, I feel like I know you.
21:18
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
21:19
Jack Jostes
And like you haven't been watching them on video. So it's just kind of a fun experience.
21:25
Andrew Lala
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. And as you grow, you know, from being a more local company to where, you know, many of your clients didn't know you by name or, you know, come from referrals, and people actually did. You know, when you're no longer maybe the one doing every single sale or interfacing with every client, it's really important, you know, how do you keep that established, you know, tone and relationship that, you know, you worked hard to create, reputation intact.
21:53
Jack Jostes
Yeah. What else. Is there anything else that you wanted to ask me or talk about?
22:02
Andrew Lala
Well, just, you know, wanted to thank you for this exercise and, you know, like I said, it just, it forced me to really look inward and out from it came. Came those processes more defined and, you know, you know, it just, it forces you to do those exercises which really, you know, just better everything so.
22:25
Jack Jostes
Well, we appreciate the opportunity to be a part of your Story, you know, and I think part of what we do is like, you, our clients all have really cool stuff going on, but they have so much going on. But when they hire us now, we're like, all right, here's your deadline. Like, hey, we're gonna, we're recording the video on this date.
22:43
Andrew Lala
Yeah.
22:44
Jack Jostes
And I, I think that's part of what we try to do is to like, help you be accountable to the stuff you're trying to do. And we know that like, you've got a crew going today. You were, you were on the phone at 7am today.
22:57
Andrew Lala
Right.
22:57
Jack Jostes
You're normally there in person, but then, hey, we got the shoot done at 8 o'.
23:00
Andrew Lala
Cl. Yeah. And that's the key. I mean, if not if I hadn't formally engaged with someone like yourself, you know, to set these events and say, this is what we need to do. You know, the. Every day of life just takes over and you never wind up getting to those things. So, yeah, it may be annoying to have to, you know, field some calls or not be there where you need to be, but it wouldn't happen otherwise.
23:27 – The Yellow Wagon Birthday Party Story
23:27
Jack Jostes
Cool. Well, thanks again for working with us, Andrew. And where can folks connect with you if they want to reach out?
23:35
Andrew Lala
So through our website, there's a contact form, you know, that Ramblin set up for us is always a great place to start for potential clients. And we also, I would say our most up to date content is on our Instagram as well. Great place to find us. Yellowwagon Landscaping. So.
23:53
Jack Jostes
Yeah. Oh, one last thing. So, so over dinner I learned. Tell me about the kid down the street that had a birthday party that was yellow wagon. I got, I gotta, we gotta.
24:04
Andrew Lala
Yeah. One of my favorite stories is we do a lot of apartment buildings in Hoboken, New Jersey. And you know, sometimes you're working in the courtyards and everybody from the apartments can see you. And we got a call from a mother who said, you know, it's this yellow wagon. My, My son loves watching your crew work every week and is a huge fan. And his birthday's coming up and we're throwing him a. He wanted a yellow wagon themed birthday party. So, you know, is there any way we could get a couple T shirts or something? And I was like, oh, you know, say no more. You know, this is awesome. So, you know, we loaded them up with a bunch of merch and you know, just, just was awesome to see. You know, see that enthusiasm.
24:48
Jack Jostes
How old was he?
24:51
Andrew Lala
You know, probably about four or five years old.
24:53
Jack Jostes
That's so cool. Yeah, I. It's amazing. I have two sons and they're so fascinated by construction. Yeah. In general. Yeah. And I love that story. I don't know that I have any other clients who've had a kid that wanted a yellow, you know, a birthday party themed after their company.
25:12
Andrew Lala
So, I mean, I guess, you know, just, you know, it's like when, I mean, I'm sure almost every kid, right, like, loves watching the garbage truck in the mornings, right, like pick up the garbage, you know, trash can and stuff. And then just, you know, something fascinating about it. And I guess they were, you know, just loving watching them.
25:26
Jack Jostes
Cool. Well, Andrew Lala from Yellow Wagon Landscaping. Thank you.
25:30
Andrew Lala
Thank you.
25:31
Jack Jostes
And I'll put a link to your website in the show notes.
25:34
Andrew Lala
Sounds great.
25:34
Jack Jostes
And thanks for coming on the podcast.
25:36
Andrew Lala
All right, thanks for having me.
25:37
Jack Jostes
Hey, it's Jack justice and you've been listening to the Landscapers Guide podcast. If you run a snow and landscape company and you'd like help with your marketing, figuring out your messaging, your branding sales process, how to generate leads online today with AI and everything that's changing, we'd love to help you. So click the link in our description to schedule a 15 minute marketing brainstorm call where we'll call you and talk about your hell yes, customer marketing you're doing and give you ideas to get even more of those clients finding you. Go ahead and schedule that@ landscapersguide.com Brainstorm Again, my name's Jack. Thanks for listening to the Landscapers Guide podcast. I look forward to talking with you next week.