Jack Jostes [00:00]
Is your landscape company capitalizing on this massive shift to artificial grass as a landscape industry trend? Are you thinking about it, but not quite sure how to get started? Check out this interview with a landscape contractor who specializes in artificial grass to find out how he got into it from doing Hollywood movie sets, plus how that led to helping him create his own artificial grass supply store. Let's get into it.
Jack Jostes [00:32]
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide. Today I'm excited to have Steven Rice, the founder of Lawn Kings, a premier synthetic turf and landscaping company based in Southern California. And Stephen also has Titan Turf Supply, and he's done a lot of interesting things. So, Stephen, thanks for coming on the show.
Steve Rice [00:54]
Well, thanks for having me. I'm excited to speak with you, and this is gonna be fun.
Jack Jostes [00:59]
I was reading our notes, getting ready for this, and I wanted to ask about some of your background in film. I understand you've done some landscape design for some movies in Hollywood. So tell us a little bit about that.
Steve Rice [01:12]
I have. It's been a fun ride. Right now it's slow in the movie industry, at least out here in Southern California. But I had started in 1996, worked on a movie called Dante's Peak. At that time, I worked for my father. I was 18 years old. But he was a grip. So it was something completely different outside the landscape of business for me back then. My dad kept me there. A little bit later, he didn't want to show favorite favoritism to his son. So I. He made sure that I did everybody else's work and this kind of stuff. So I kind of was keen in on some other trades within the industry. One thing was called being a greensman. So a greensman kind of sets up the mood. So on some different movies, spooky movies, maybe we're putting moss on rocks or hanging.
Steve Rice [01:52]
Hanging Spanish moss to create a down south movie or something like this. So from that point, I thought, you know what? Those guys, they're able to be creative. They're able to kind of do what they want on their own. And the production designers, the directors, they kind of go off theme and feel that's created by the landscapers, which are called Greensmen. I thought, that's what I want to learn about. That's what I want to do. Step aside from my dad, do something different. And eventually, after my 20th year, or leading into my 20th year, my dad ended up working for me and I changed what he did. And I was really excited to actually teach him train him and in a different way that he taught me. So it was fun kind of getting into that.
Jack Jostes [02:31]
Wow. So, so you entered the landscape industry really from your work on film sets?
02:38 – Becoming the Artificial Grass Guy
Steve Rice [02:38]
It is. That's the way that I went about it. So for me, I was very lucky and fortunate to where the greensmen at nighttime on sitcoms we'd go in there because they had lives like living sod and this kind of stuff. The grass didn't have full photosynthesis. So basically it dies after about two days, the sod. So on those sound stages, we would take that sod out in the evening time before the film shoot the following morning. I was one of the first people to start importing artificial grass. So I was able to get the connection. So for instance, my good friend Frank McEl Downey, my boss, my mentor, and Ron Barati, they were actually importing different things for the movie The Last Samurai. So Last Samurai, we’re buying all the willow branches, the artificial plate, fake plastic sprays they call them from overseas.
Steve Rice [03:23]
We'd have them brought in here. There was no more in America. We bought them out from entirely in China. We'd make these real cool trees that in the backlot of Warner Brothers Studios. And then from there I was like, hey, I can actually do this with artificial grass. So I was able to implement that and be the first person, one of the first people to bring the artificial grass in. That relieved the duty of the greensmen having to go there every three days, throwing away the sod wasted money. So at that point, I got kind of known in the film industry as the artificial grass guy, the go to. From there we started renting it out to different film sets. We'd put in there one time, the season's over. They saved several thousand dollars by seasons end.
Steve Rice [04:01]
So that's kind of how it started with the fake grass to begin with and ran from there. So were one of the first companies to do that there. There, there is a couple other companies that were before us. But something unique and different to us though is that I wanted to get my contractor's license and not just be known as the fake grass guy, learn about all landscaping. So in California here It's called the C27 license. It didn't want to just be the film movie guy, but to actually go to homes, set up, design work, implement artificial grass when needed.
04:30 – Getting Licensed & Launching Lawn Kings
Steve Rice [04:30]
We'll still do sod, but irrigation and plants and creating a theme and that's the real fun part that the transition from the studios into the full landscape of not just being a contractor, but eventually starting Titan Turf Supply and having a storefront to be able to provide not just artificial grass, but other. Other things like edging and gopher wire weed, Barrett and these kind of things.
Jack Jostes [04:50]
Well, I love that. So. So you kind of fell into this just from working with your dad. And, you know, before we pressed record, I was sharing that I kind of fell into what I'm doing. I had a summer and spring job working at a garden center, and then I later was a public speaker for Constant Contact and they had me go and speak at a gard and landscape show. And I shared that story and I kind of knew the people there. And that quickly became part of my business. And you know, years later it became the whole focus of my company is serving the landscape industry. So I just think, I think that's. It's a neat path. You know, the things that you do in life, you sometimes don't know what they're going to lead to, but they can.
Jack Jostes [05:34]
They can lead to a lot.
Steve Rice [05:36]
It's pretty neat because I think it's kind of similar. We're both fairly similar to where we fell into love. We fell in love to something with something rather that we didn't know that we're going to love so much. So with you being a public speaker, how did that become. How'd that start? Because obviously you have to be somebody with confidence. You have to be, you know, well rounded in front of people.
Jack Jostes [05:57]
I, from the time I was about five, I've been doing theater. And I was. I remember the first play I was in was Billy Goat's Gruff, and I was the troll. And I was. I was five and I was loud and gruff and I was this loud troll. And like most the other kids were quiet. And I liked it. I liked doing it. And I did theater stuff. I've played violin since I was 6. So performance has just kind of been part of my life since I was 6 years old. And I thought that's what I wanted to do for a living. And I studied theater and journalism in college, but I also double majored in journalism. So I've always really enjoyed writing. I've always enjoyed live events and performances and things.
Jack Jostes [06:47]
And I later realized that I liked the marketing side and the business side of running a band. I played in a band for six years, so I thought I wanted to play in a band full time. And then I thought, oh, well, plan B, I'll do journalism. And when I was graduating college, the Rocky Mountain News went out of business and this whole shift to digital happened and I just realized, actually I have a lot of marketing skills that were relevant, like Facebook and email marketing. Email marketing is still a key skill for me and it's something I'm helping my clients with. It's still very relevant.
Jack Jostes [07:28]
So a lot of those things I just followed opportunities and realized later that I had business skills as a result of, well, yeah, I can write a newspaper article and meet a 200-word character limit and knock out a headline and find the right photo. That all translates to a lot of what I'm doing today with helping people build websites or make social media posts or write an email. It's all kind of just built upon itself.
Steve Rice [08:00]
Yeah, I'd love to learn more, you know, after this podcast and speak with you about that because I think that you'd certainly be able to help our companies perform better. Get, get more direct to the clients. And I've been able to read most of the book here. The Tree of Good Fortune. Very fascinating. I have a lot of questions off air here. Just about that alone. And it's well written and I could see why.
Jack Jostes [08:24]
Well, well, thank you, I appreciate that. And hey, you can ask them on the show because look, this show is about you. It's about marketing, it's about business. So I mean, really what I love doing is talking to people. So the podcast kind of gives me an excuse to talk to interesting people. And I think your story is fascinating, but I want to help the audience take away some ideas about getting started with artificial turf and that, you know, we've got listeners around the country and there's, you know, there's a lot changing with droughts and water shortages in states like California, where you are, and also Texas. I have clients in Texas who I've worked with for a number of years and they're like, hey, there's a, you know, irrigation ban, and how are we going to irrigate our grass?
Jack Jostes [09:13]
And I'm like, well, we're dealing with this in Colorado and I have clients in California and it may create an opportunity. So talk to me a little bit about how does this create an opportunity for states that are having water shortages and droughts and things?
09:31 – Water Conservation & The Turf Boom
Steve Rice [09:31]
Well, I have a lot to say this, but first, before I even say that, I want everyone to know I'm a landscaper by trade. I love all landscaping and I know when artificial grass shouldn't be implemented in a certain area. Okay, so with that being done said the look of it. It has to have different contour texture mixed with the right plants and with theme. It has to go along with it all. So here in California, for instance, the. What it was about nine years ago. Well, it feels like we've always been a drought, but back then they were giving rebates. So when they started giving rebates for taking out your existing lawn, they made it fairly simple.
Steve Rice [10:06]
You didn't have to send in photos onto the website with the DWP for instance, basically call a contractor, come out, he measures it, you get up to $3.75 back a square foot at. So for myself, I had already known artificial grass doing the installations. I think that there was a lot of bad looking turf putting at the time. Suddenly there was a big boom and bang and it wasn't installed correctly. So it's not just about the drought tolerant, but it has to look aesthetically pleasing. It has to beautiful. So from there they got rid of the incentives. But for myself to do it, basically they're saving. I think it's, well, the grass. First off, it drains at 30 gallons per square yard an hour. It's still permeable. It's still something of putting concrete or pavers or something like this.
Steve Rice [10:52]
The water table still goes down and in. For me, knowing that my daughter, for example, she's allergic to grass. She's out to be able to go out there, play, roll around in it, having those advantages. It's really easy to clean up with when dogs do their business, but. But knowing that you're simply saving so much water for the environment. But now it comes back to people here in California right now are actually getting fined for over water use. So it was first to save the water when we started to get out of the drought. From that point, people are just simply getting fined here. I live in Santa Clarita, it's the northern part of Los Angeles County. I think currently right now there's over 38,000 homes being built. You can look that up. It's probably even more than that.
Steve Rice [11:34]
So everybody knows Magic Mountain, theme park. So behind Magic Mountain there alone, there's over 20,000 homes being built. So more people, more water use, more space being used up in concrete and hardscape. So the artificial grass, again, saving water, still permeable for the water table. It's safe and clean. We have all of our grass tested for all heavy metal and lead. And for myself being a landscaper of, for a real natural lawn, that's a fescue of Bermuda, St. Augustine out here. None of that stuff is native to Southern California. So I know that using a bag of fertilizer is not natural. And that says on there that the dangers of it and wear a mask when distributing that and that kind of stuff.
Steve Rice [12:16]
So I know for what we have tested the benefits of artificial grass being, you know, my daughter doesn't have to worry about being itchy or get a rash. And this kind of stuff, it stays safe and clean and all the infills that are in there right now. So it started out really saving water. It came down to just use of space, feeding the water table and saving money on, on the use of water. So there's a difference of just anybody just doing the installation to making it look beautiful, practical, clean, environment friendly.
Jack Jostes [12:48]
Yeah, I, I have artificial grass at my home. We have a dog run area. I'm here in Colorado and I really enjoy it. I really enjoy it. I, I wrestle with my kids on it and it's, you know, I think before I had it, I had a lot of ideas that it would be prickly and hard and that it would look plain, like plastic. I had a lot of, you know, ill conceived notions that I think many people do. But it looks awesome, it's comfortable to walk on, and I'm pretty happy with it. And I helped my mom decide to have it installed at her home in the Chicago area because they have this lab mix that literally ripped up the grass. And I actually personally planted that grass in high school.
Jack Jostes [13:41]
So I was kind of bummed that it had been ripped up, but there was no way they could keep this dog with it. And they're just, I'm not, I don't live there. I'm. No one's able to maintain it. And it was such a small space that artificial grass made sense. And it looks great.
Steve Rice [13:59]
It really does. We were doing seven. Well, we have done 17 animal shelters, including the Castaic, Bakersfield and as of today, Carson Animal Shelter. But let me ask you, how old is your artificial grass? Because it's changed quite a bit in the last several years.
14:12 – Why Turf Has Changed (and What to Know)
Jack Jostes [14:12]
This product was installed right about this time last year. So 20 spring of 2024 was when we had it put in.
Steve Rice [14:21]
Sure. So you have the newer technology there. There's some negatives from the older technology. So a lot of times people talk about the heat that's being generated off of it and the different kind of infill and there's been some misconceptions ultimately. So when they're talking about Carcinogenic and those kind of things. It's not the turf itself nowadays. It was the old rubber pellets they used to put in there. So it was hotter, it would attract the sun, the heat, it would transfer the heat from blade to blade. And of course your body doesn't digest or metabolize the rubber if it gets inhaled or something like this. So now we used a different coated quartz sand products that's on there. So it's all natural and that's antibacterial. You put that between the grass blades and we use something called zeolite.
Steve Rice [15:04]
Even again, it's a volcanic ash. It's natural and that's put underneath the artificial grass and that helps absorb the ammonia from the pet urine and stuff. So the fibers are completely different than they used to be. The infill is completely different than it used to be. So now the grass is much cooler in regards to temperature and not just because of infill, but the properties. And even it's standing up. So what used to lay down flat at some of these old animal shelters where I'd rip out their old artificial grass. Now they have three spines in the blade that you could see, you can't really feel it, but you could see it under a, a magnifying glass. And that's what every day, if something's laying on it'll stand itself back up just from the sun.
Steve Rice [15:41]
So the practicality and the use, just like we're how you're using it, I'm sure that it snows where you live and knowing that it's permeable, it's going to drain at 30 to 90 gallons per square yard an hour. When the snow melts, it's no worry and that kind of stuff. And, and is what was the first reason for you to put it in your home there?
Jack Jostes [16:01]
Well, I bought a home. So I live in Colorado and the property prior to me buying it was already xeriscaped. So it did not have any lawn? Well, actually no, it had lawn in the back, but it was, I just didn't want to deal with it. It was this small space and it required a lot of water. You know, you'd have to get out there. I mean, it gets really hot and sunny and dry here and so I just didn't want to deal with it. But I wanted to have an area for my dog.
Steve Rice [16:40]
Yeah, no reason to start up a lawnmower in a little space and let alone the noise pollution having to do that getting out there and with what the maintenance is. And I'd say even here, like in the L A area, the Hollywood Hills, Eagle Rock, stuff like that, there's such tight rows, little spaces, small yards, and basically nobody wants to drag their lawnmower up. All. All these flight of steps or down steps to get to your back area that's essentially on a hill and a slope. So, yeah, something very similar. And why a lot of people want to use artificial grass for part of the landscape needs.
Jack Jostes [17:09]
Yeah. So. So do you see this as a trend outside of states where. Where there are not, you know, as many water drought issues?
17:21 – Where Turf is Trending Beyond California
Steve Rice [17:21]
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously I live here in California, starting from separating myself from Lawn Kings, our contractor's license to the storefront. So we advertise nationally. Yes.
Jack Jostes [17:33]
Yeah, tell us a little bit. So you have two businesses. One is Lawn Kings. And. And you guys offer all kinds of landscape services. So not only artificial grass, but also. Yeah, you do irrigation and pavers and pergolas and trees and shrubs and landscape installation. Right. So you guys.
Steve Rice [17:53]
Absolutely.
Jack Jostes [17:54]
You do.
Steve Rice [17:54]
Absolutely.
Jack Jostes [17:55]
You don't. You don't. Just artificial grass.
Steve Rice [17:58]
We have 20. No, including myself, currently we have 22 employees that are just for the design, doing full landscaping. Very passionate about that. But. But something that kind of changed for us is that we also have a company called Titan Turf Supply. We have a storefront here. And with our advertising campaign nationally, we advertise, we'll ship any to go for wire, bender, board, anything, weed barrier, anywhere nationally, it's not a big deal. But by doing that, I started to see, okay, there's differences in other states. So some states like Arizona and Nevada, parts of Texas, New Mexico, it was kind of normal Southern California traffic. Wanting artificial grass learning. A lot of people just want to be educated and don't really know any better. But then I saw, okay, I was getting different feedback from.
Steve Rice [18:47]
From other places, Northern Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, and then from there, doing a lot of social media advertising, seeing some of the comments, and I really understood that there's. There's a perception with artificial grass that they don't know anything about to begin with and. Or other landscaping that we're used to here in these other states.
Jack Jostes [19:07]
Well, so what are some of the common misconceptions that you hear even from landscape professionals, that you want to clear the air on these. These things on the podcast?
19:18 – What Most People Get Wrong About Turf
Steve Rice [19:18]
So there's probably several. But a lot of people think like, hey, that's going to. The sun is going to degrade this in a year or Two, that turf installation is going to smell or stink when installed by the wrong people. Not using the proper materials. Sure. So for us, we're actually governed by the Synthetic Turf Council. So I make sure to tell everybody we're not just doing anything, just, hey, Joe blow. We actually have to be governed not just by them and doing things the proper way, but by the California State License Board. So out here, there's another contractor's license called the D12 besides the C27, where I'm able to do all landscaping. But a lot of those guys getting in new, they'll lay the turf directly on dirt.
Jack Jostes [19:57]
So this was something that I went through with my mom because I helped my mom find a contractor. And she's like, wow, this is way more than I thought it would be. And I'm like, so tell me about. And partly having watched the work be done, tell us a little bit, what is the installation? The site prep is really where all the magic happens. So tell us about the site prep. And I think that's an opportunity because a lot of people think, oh man, I'm losing a lawn mowing customer. And maybe you are, but how much can you. I really, I just wanted to talk about the installation process because I think it's important.
Steve Rice [20:36]
That's actually part of what it is too, that people don't really understand. So when they'll check out the website, they say, hey, this is $2.95 a square foot shipped to me here, there. But they don't really understand it's not just the materials, it is just that. So for us, we remove 3 to 4 inches of the existing grass and soil that's there. We'll cap the sprinklers that are there. We'll put a pre emergence so no weeds grow up and through. A very important part there is making sure that we put in at least that aggregate. So the aggregate for whether it's a road base, decomposed granite, every state's going to have different aggregate. But the point of that is not only to hold the nails in, but for when the turf is nailed down. But we use carpet kickers to stretch the turf.
Steve Rice [21:19]
We lay it out in the sun, we'll secure it down. But after it's compacted, those four inches are compacted, it's going to hold it in place. But ultimately that keeps the ground from expanding and contracting. So when it rains, actually the soil will expand when it dries out. You think of the desert where it's crackly and Stuff it then it shrinks again. So that'll stretch the turf if it wasn't installed correctly on the proper amount of aggregate that's there. So, so doing all these layers, it's not just the original price they see online. Just saying from our landscapes store, if they're just going to buy the grass, there's many layers.
Steve Rice [21:53]
So for out here in Southern California, we have a price chart on our website, lawnkingsinc.com that says in there that basically you get your money back within three to four years of your investment. So this is a long term investment, but you'll get your money back from gardening fees, from just maintenance overall and water included. For you could plug in your own gardener's fee in there. How much you're spending on water, you'll see your money come back tenfold. And this is a product that's going to last 25 to 30 years. And starting out with a 15 year warranty from the color fading, the fiber shedding, the stitches, unraveling, these kind of things. So it's going to beautiful year round, minimal maintenance. Occasionally you may just have to use a leaf blower just to blow off some leaves and that kind of stuff.
Steve Rice [22:35]
But, and something kind of funny if I, if you don't mind me sharing, I have told people in the past like, hey, this probably isn't for you. I've gone to a home where the homeowners simply don't pick up the dog poop. I'll go back there and I'm using my tape measure and kind of looking around and they'll say, hey, is the turf gonna smell? Is it going to stink when my dog does his business? But the truth be told, that poop that's on the ground still smells itself. So there is some maintenance to do. It's not a cure all to get rid of your gardener entirely.
Jack Jostes [23:05]
The turf doesn't smell, but the poop that you left on it probably you.
Steve Rice [23:09]
Can'T spray perfume on that poop and it cures everything else. But.
Jack Jostes [23:13]
But yeah, you can't. Right, That's a good point. And part of that site prep though, to the smell factor you mentioned. The anti microbial material can make an impact. So if you have pets, you can treat it in a way that it won't smell.
Steve Rice [23:37]
Yes. And very important, those are all organic sands. They're not going to dissolve, they're not going to disappear. So for instance, the zeolite, it'll revitalize itself after it's been spritzed down with water. So kind of our ratio here is a. For a 600 square foot area, if you have one 60 pound dog, we recommend rinsing the. The. The turf down probably once every three weeks. Usually the. Your pets go in the same local area and this kind of stuff that will have released the ammonia that those pellets have been holding. And because the pellets are underneath artificial grass, it goes down through the aggregate. So you have several inches of the aggregate that's there before it even hits the. We've tested it. Your yard actually drains better with artificial grass with the proper aggregate there because it's kind of like a French drain.
Steve Rice [24:23]
The aggregate is just crushed rock. So that's kind of French stain is basically crushed rock around a pipe. It's actually going to drain quicker until it gets to the native soil. So we've been able to remedy. You know, we'll tell people a brand new home, they'll say hey Steve, how fast is this going to drain? We'll, we'll let people know. You should probably put rain gutters up because it's not just the volume of rain that's coming down and over the lawn that's there, but also what's coming off your roof line. So putting in drains. But some people elect not to put the drains and even that's cured the problem. I'm not saying to do that, but we have one product in particular called the gladiator wave blade superflow and that drains at 90 gallons per square yard an hour.
Steve Rice [25:03]
Typical artificial grass drains at 30 gallons. But when we say that, and I've said this before, really is it's never going to rain that much here in Southern California, these dry states like that to where you know, since the ice age and it's all melting and this kind of stuff for the earth to really absorb that much water. But it has a lot of benefits like this.
Jack Jostes [25:22]
Did you say that Lawn Kings has over 35 types of turf? Did I read that correctly?
Steve Rice [25:29]
So we actually, we have 14 different styles but in those styles we also offer other colors. So collectively yes. So a green grass that we have. And for the movie industry, they wanted us to produce a product that's just white so they could use those as snow blankets. They call them off in the deep distance. There's a lot of trade shows out here, for example, to where we'll make blue grass for different, like car shows for instance and also different colored grass and themed grass, orange and yellow and again for different kind of movies and stuff. So we do have these. We keep them in stock. And. And so we have a grass, for instance, that's just for gyms alone. We make that grass with a padding attached to it as well.
Steve Rice [26:09]
So although we have, you know, 13 to 14 original styles, we also have the opportunity of selling it to you with a padding attached or the same grass and style add with a different color on it. So collectively over 35. Yeah.
Jack Jostes [26:23]
Tell me a little bit. So you've got your Lawn Kings and then Titan Turf Supply. How did. How did the supply start of the business start and how long have been doing that?
26:36 – Why Steve Started Titan Turf Supply
Steve Rice [26:36]
So when we first started, I was the installer for. Besides eventually making our own grass. And I wanted to make a name for ourselves and for me getting my contractor's license, I was very proud. But to be honest, we started being an installer for another turf company. Before I could have the. The money, the overhead, the storage to be able to import as much as we wanted, have as much made in Georgia and Dalton, Chatsworth, Georgia as we wanted, were doing installations for another company. From there, we see that there is some inferior products, not because they were negligent or trying to be. But I learned the science of artificial grass to where people are telling me, hey, Steve, this grass smells more.
Steve Rice [27:16]
But they'd always remember the installer, not the guy who making the grass or the company that would sub me out and I'd work for them as a subcontractor. So I learned that latex and artificial grass saves about 7 cents a square foot. It doesn't seem like much, but 7 cents. And every time we have a shipment of about 24 to 30 rolls is just under 30,000 square feet. 7 cents times that. It's a lot of money. So some of these other turf companies were just simply saying, hey, I'll have the backing made of latex, or I'll have the thatching made of nylon. Nylon's great for its own reasons, but if a dog urinates on it's going to hold a smell. It actually goes into the fiber itself. So our material is polypropylene and polyurethane.
Steve Rice [27:54]
So once I started learning, hey, this is the science of it, I really wanted to stand out and say, with our store, I'm going to make sure that we just have the best components that are there. People were using us as their installers. Several different stores, several different places before my store had started. So I learned the best of all materials that were there and then finally grew enough to where I bought One little trailer. I was able to keep a few rolls on there. Ask a friend if I could store, you know, some stuff there to eventually buying one warehouse, two warehouse. And now we have three separate warehouses. And a real fascinating part from myself again is meeting other landscapers all day long, speaking with them. So I'll take myself personally.
Steve Rice [28:35]
We'll take between 30 to 60 phone calls a day from landscape professionals, not direct, just from the homeowners from the Lawn Kings side of it. So I get to hear and see all the trade secrets from all the different people and implement those for what we do as well. And that's been a real fun part of it. And while why we're such. I'm very grateful for Lawn Kings and meeting the homeowners direct, but having the passion of talking to other landscapers like yourself, there's nothing like it for me. I mean, I just, I get a real buzz off speaking with other landscapers.
Jack Jostes [29:07]
I enjoy talking to landscapers too. That's why I run this podcast.
Steve Rice [29:11]
Yeah, I couldn't wait to speak with you.
Jack Jostes [29:13]
It. It is, it is a fun industry and it's changing and the landscape industry is just a great group of people for the most part. Right. I mean, like I, I have great clients. I have great guests all over the country. So how far do you sell? How far does, how far does Titan Turf Supply reach?
Steve Rice [29:34]
So we will, we could ship anywhere throughout the states, the 49 states on land. So there's actually a shipping company that we use that actually just only ships for artificial grass stores and carpet stores. So every time that they stop, there's a hub, let's just say in Poway, so near San Diego or Las Vegas. It gets sent from truck to truck, but every forklift has a forklift pole on it that's specialized just for those kind of needs. So we're able to do a drop ship directly to your home and, or you can save a little bit on cost if we go directly to one of those facilities. Most every state has one to two of those facilities. It's very cost effective.
30:13 – Shipping Nationwide & Big Box Partnerships
Steve Rice [30:13]
It generally only adds maybe 7 to 12 cents a square foot at this present time to the cost per square foot of what you may see online for what our prices are. And it's a really unique way to deliver, not having to just rely on Bubba's shipping or something like that, and he's four days late. But we are able to track everything all the way to the home and to the individual and so for example, there's a turf company in Idaho, they specialize in putting greens. We've sent them. There's a pretty famous person, I won't say his name there but he put the biggest putting green in a few months ago and now I got a phone call yesterday, hey, he wants another 4,000 square foot putting green. He has another place there. You know, it's like let's do it, let's go.
Steve Rice [30:57]
It's so simple for us to do, make a ship everywhere with our Lawn Kings company from central California all the way down to San Diego. We have an installation team to do. And I'm not, I can't say just yet, I'm super excited about this. But one of those big box stores, not a hardware store but another big box store, is now going to be using our service through those, that same region with Lawn Kings to do all the installations. And I'm way excited about this. Their big news is coming out.
Jack Jostes [31:23]
Well, I think you're going to need more than 25 people for that. What do you think?
Steve Rice [31:27]
Well, the fun thing is that with me knowing all those other people that buy from me, we are now interviewing and vetting all those people that are our customers, picking the right people to be part of this, this system and this plan. So I already have about four yeses to large scale companies right now. And like it's like no other. I got to make sure that our team, we have a specialized person for each place that's going to be there and you know, getting back to people when a certain amount of timeline. This big box store is going to make sure that we have a whole system set up to where if there's any questions, concerns, complaints, we have a timeline to get back to them on and they're completely vetting us to where it's all the way down to who am I?
Steve Rice [32:10]
You could take my fingerprint.
32:12 – Could AI Help Run Turf Installations?
Jack Jostes [32:12]
Have you thought about creating an AI agent to help you with that?
Steve Rice [32:16]
You know, it's something on our list but I need to know, learn more about it and well, you know.
Jack Jostes [32:23]
I think, you know, you could create an AI agent that you feed all of these questions and answers and you could log all these emails and responses and if you used, and I don't know, you'd have to check California's law about recording calls or not. But you know, you could feed it all of this information and eventually you could have like an AI agent on your website that either customers ask questions or These, whatever you're going to call that position at those stores could chat with the AI agent and it would continue getting smarter.
Steve Rice [32:59]
I love that. I can't wait to learn more about it. And that's something else I would like to discuss further with you. And I know that for sure you'll be able to help me out in so many ways besides this. But, but that's great. Thank you.
Jack Jostes [33:10]
Yeah, well, I, I, I'm just, I'm always thinking of like, wow, that sounds like a lot of people and a lot of questions and it sounds like a lot of the same questions and the same answers. And that's where I'm like, you know, I could train an AI agent to do that. I, I'm actually working on that here at Ramblin Jackson to train my own people. And then I'm going to have an AI agent on my own website and that's gonna, you know, when people come there, they'll be able to ask questions and things.
Steve Rice [33:41]
It's so smart. Technology is going so fast right now, I can't even keep up with it.
Jack Jostes [33:44]
And, you know, it really is. And I think the hard part often is just deciding which thing to focus on.
Steve Rice [33:54]
It's true. It's true. I always think I'm getting over this next hump of saying like, once I do this and once we have enough space for that and I'll be, I'll be there. No, I mean, it's so much fun and there's always something else, something next and I'm open to all of it. It's really Jack and you probably know this. Having the right people around you is so important. So it's not just me or my wife helping out and these kind of things, but having the right team leaders inside there.
34:23 – Hiring & Leading with Passion
Steve Rice [34:23]
So for me, starting out with safety and keeping everybody good and healthy and safe and, but really training them and seeing that, hey, we're not just here just to make money, but see if your employees have that same passion or have a passion and providing them that growth path, you know, to their own success. And, and the way that I felt for myself saying, like, this is so cool and it's not just limited and stopping here so learning and having those people that are going to teach me those things and how they could help me introduce our company, doing that and implementing that.
Jack Jostes [34:51]
What's it like having both, you know, your contracting business doing services for people and then the supply side is that sounds like two different animals.
Steve Rice [35:04]
It is. I've learned a lot about myself by the way, by how you approach how you talk, how you speak of things. But, but so for me, making sure that nothing's ever over promised. We actually perform what we say, how we say it. And we are, we're obligated not just by the contractor state business board or to the state of California when we sell anything for this kind of stuff, but making sure is. Is our material actually what we're selling. So having my own stuff third party tested is huge.
Jack Jostes [35:33]
Do you feel pulled in two different directions or do they complement each other? I'm just curious like for Steve, the guy running both of these companies, like what's this like?
Steve Rice [35:45]
Yeah. Thank you. It's been real fun and interesting. For me. The reason why we actually started Titan Turf Supply to be separate and different is because at the time were the up and coming premiere, the only company that knew how to do the installation of artificial grass. Gardeners couldn't really do it without making it look bumpy and lumpy and this kind of stuff. But at some point people did your tradesmen, your hardscape guys try to learn how to do it. But get, but guess what? For us having the materials for the at cost manufactured price, some people said hey, I'm losing jobs to you Steve and your Lawn Kings company because I can never beat your pricing. We separated the two. The two companies have different names of materials and these kind of things.
36:29 – How Titan Turf Competes with Giants
Steve Rice [36:29]
But so seeing some people that I may have had a little bit of hiccups with to start out with. No, now we're best friends and really our customer service is second to none. My, my line is always open to everybody and there's, we have at least 3 to 400 just regular customers and they're all my friends. And that's a completely different animal than talking to the homeowner that's usually doesn't know what their investment is going to get them, what should be done and how you kind of go about things.
Jack Jostes [36:59]
Well, so how do you compete in this space? So like I just did a search for artificial turf and I've got Home Depot, I've got Angie, I've got Uline, I've got Pet Grows all running ads. You know this is a Lowe's and then Amazon and there's like all these different suppliers and things. So how do you compete in this monster Goliath market?
Steve Rice [37:28]
So Jack, reading your book, I've been able to learn a lot just from the book, from there. So for me, what I say that's because I need to learn more, go about things. How I read that you've gone about things and picking your hell yes customer and doing these kind of things. But when we started artificial grass, we really didn't have much competition so I didn't really have to spend as much money in advertising. Lowe's and Home Depot and Costco and all these places didn't have artificial grass. There was none. The, the, all the irrigation companies that are out there, they didn't do it. So for me, it really funneled directly towards me now we're competing against some of those big names and these kind of things.
Steve Rice [38:05]
So I'd say I've followed the trends all the way doing from way back when from the, what's it, the 99 cent magazine and all these different things. And, and I've had advertiser would call me and say hey, you know those little magazines that you put your stuff in, no one's going to see you. And I'll ask them hey, how'd you hear of us? Was it that same little magazine that's there? We understand that there is a certain clientele of people that at that time at least that didn't get onto the Internet for their searches still had wanted a flyer on the doorstep. So we've done everything from mailer campaigns to the email blast, everything that you could think of. I've tried and I've seen a lot of things that simply have not worked for us.
Steve Rice [38:47]
Finding the right demographic, the right probably age group, it's somebody that generally is a homeowner, not a first time, just entry level, getting into a home and finding what's best suited for our advertising needs and kind of following that now that we have so much competition doing the localized searches and really honing in on the specific keywords, you know, an SEO traffic. And one more thing Jack, is that with our two companies, we advertise differently with two different SEO companies, for example, I watch what one company says, how they, what they're doing, how they're going about things and I'll watch what the other one does. And that little bit of information, a little bit of difference. I'll say, hey, you do know that there's a new algorithm right now with Google.
Steve Rice [39:29]
This is what's going on, this is what we're trying to do at the time. So what we're once able to do of Setting out addresses saying, hey, we're here and there. You can't send those mailers out and get those addresses to look like you are in these certain states or, or these cities. I would share that information with our other SEO company and quite honestly, they would compete a little bit.
Jack Jostes [39:50]
I like it.
Steve Rice [39:51]
They wanted, they both wanted all, both companies for the advertising. And since then I've been able to learn a lot, you know, and again, why I'm really interested in your book of, you know, the Tree of Good Fortune.
Jack Jostes [40:03]
Yeah, I think it's, and I mean the most. I say that the most important question in the book is why should somebody buy from you over someone else? And so why should somebody buy from Titan Turf Supply over a Lowe's or a Home Depot or whoever I'm finding on Amazon? And when you, and that relates to one thing you mentioned is hell yes, customer, it really matters. Well, who is buying and where are they? And can I offer them something that's different, better and above what they could get from more of a transactional relationship with a Home Depot?
Steve Rice [40:43]
Our expertise. Our expertise. I kind of mentioned it to you a little earlier. I think that when artificial grass first started, these other companies were using stuff, the materials, thinking they're saving a little bit of money. But again, by the science of it, there's reasons why their turf was smelling the expertise. The actual installer that knows the reputable company that's been around for us over 17 years just doing this, the same contractor's license knows dinger hits, you know, the Better Business Bureau A Plus rating, Yelp 5 star review. Reviews are important. Oh yeah, customer feedback. You know, we're not asking for the reviews but collectively we probably have about 7 or 800 reviews between the two companies from Google and Yelp and all these kind of things. So we're really proud of what we're doing, how we're doing it.
Steve Rice [41:28]
But you're going to get a top notch installation. And some companies, they simply change their name. So installation companies, are they getting their material from a third party place, some garden center to where if your turf gets ripped or damaged or burns or something, they're that place they're gonna have to go and say, hey, this other company in Georgia or something, can you send me this? It'll never match, it'll never be the same. We keep over a million square feet of turf in our shop. We have the same line of grass. You have the same consistent consistency, continuity. And you're going to get the best customer service. This is our forte. This is what we're best at. And we've been around longer than most every other company that does this. So experience is for us. Number one, we haven't changed our name.
Steve Rice [42:09]
Some of our competitors, they change their name after they get so many bad reviews or bad experience with clients. You know, they don't come back. We do. And that you're going to get your money's worth with us.
Jack Jostes [42:20]
I like that. Well, Steve, we could talk. We could keep talking for a long time. We're about out of time. I wanted to leave the audience, though. For people who are listening, who maybe aren't offering artificial grass installation as a service at their landscape company. What's one thing you'd say to them to get them to take a step further?
42:15 – Final Advice for Landscapers Considering Turf
Steve Rice [42:41]
Well, I would love just to speak with you. I think that just my knowledge, my experience, it's not about selling materials. It's my passion to be able to help you, to talk to you, to guide you. It's something that you're not going to get from somewhere else. That's really just pushing buttons on a cash register. You're going to get that from me, let alone the cost. We have our turf rated for, tested for UV rating for lead, heavy metal, pfas. So it's not about just the dollar bill and pushing the cash register. You're going to get us. You're going to get me. I'm always available and I would love to have the opportunity with everybody. And I've been lucky to have all these beautiful, wonderful customers that are here.
Jack Jostes [43:20]
Well, cool. So for folks listening who want to connect with you, where, how. How should we do that?
Steve Rice [43:25]
Well, you could connect with me direct at admin@lawnkingsinc.com or steve@lawnkingsinc.com. Titan Turf Supply, it's steve@titanturfsupply.com or just go to our website www.lawnkingsinc.com and titanturfsupply.com.
Jack Jostes [43:44]
Cool. Well, I'll put links and all of that in our show notes. Steve, hey, it's been fun having you on the podcast. Thanks for coming on The Landscaper's Guide.
Steve Rice [43:53]
Jack, that went so quick. I had so much fun and shoot, I felt like that was just the start of our conversation. I hope that I have the opportunity of speaking with you again and learning more about what you also offer.
Jack Jostes [44:03]
Absolutely. Me too. Well, thanks, Jack.
Steve Rice [44:06]
It was my pleasure.
Jack Jostes [44:09]
Well, I really enjoyed talking with Steve and while were doing the interview, I thought about how grateful I am to work in the landscape industry. This is such a cool industry because of the people like Steve, my clients, the people I work with at Ramblin Jackson. So truly, thank you for listening to this show. I appreciate you being here and I want to talk to more great people. So if you know someone that might be an interesting guest on The Landscaper's Guide, including you, if you're listening and you're like, Jack, I want to talk to you, well, you should reach out at landscapersguide.com/guest or send me an email introduction. If you want me to talk to somebody, send me an email. jack@ramblinjackson.com and with that, I'm going to wrap up today.
Jack Jostes [44:58]
Have an awesome weekend and I look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper’s Guide. Make sure you check out landscapersguide.com/events. We're going to be at a number of trade shows coming up. We've got a great webinar series and I'd love to connect with you there. So check it out at landscapersguide.com/events. See our show notes for that and I'll talk to you next week.
Show Notes:
???? Lawn Kings: lawnkingsinc.com
???? Contact: steve@lawnkingsinc.com | admin@lawnkingsinc.com
???? Titan Turf Supply: titanturfsupply.com
???? Contact: steve@titanturfsupply.com
???? Watch + Read the Full Episode: landscapersguide.com/podcast
???? Get Free Tools + Beef Jerky: landscapersguide.com/toolbox
???? Catch Jack at Upcoming Events: landscapersguide.com/events