Connect With Today’s Guest, Wayne Herring from Business Builder Camp
🌳 Business Builder Camp: https://businessbuildercamp.com/
👤 Connect with Wayne Herring: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wayneherringjr/
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Other Landscaper’s Guide Podcast Interviews With Wayne Herring:
How to Integrate Family and Business in Your Annual Plan
Reflecting on 2024: Business Wins, Lessons, and 2025 Goals for Landscaping Pros
Long-Term Goals Keep Your Life In Order
00:00
Jack Jostes: Having a goal like that, like a long range goal, I think can help a lot of other things stay in order.
00:05
Wayne Herring: Everyone wants to be Jeremiah Johnson until they need to do Jeremiah Johnson.
00:10
Jack Jostes: I think so. And it helps you not be an asshole because your employees like that too.
00:13
Jack Jostes: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Landscaper's Guide podcast. Right now, I'm at the Royal Arch in Boulder, Colorado with my business coach, Wayne Herring. We're at 6,950ft. We've just hiked, I don't know, a couple miles.
00:28
Wayne Herring: 25 Miles.
00:28
Jack Jostes: 25 Miles. We just hiked 25 miles.
00:32
Wayne Herring: I want to say it's like three,.
00:34
Jack Jostes: I think it was about three miles here. And then we're going to get some lunch afterwards. And today we wanted to catch up on strength, nutrition. These are things that Wayne and I both love. And on our hike up here, Wayne. Well, first, tell us a little bit. Who are you? And you've been on the show a bunch of times, but for people who don't know you, who are you? What do you do?
00:56
Wayne Herring: Yeah, I'm Wayne Herring. I'm a business coach. I'm also the creator of a community of business owners called Business Builder Camp, or Business Builders for short. And so I in my work life, I bring business owners together so that they can talk about the things that are sometimes hard to talk about with other people in their life, employees or family members, et cetera. And I'm a dad and I'm about to get married in December, and my family is growing because of that. And I like the outdoors. I love Colorado. Just dropped my son off in Meeker, Colorado for his kind of dream job as a hunting guide. And that's a little bit about me.
Building A Community For Business Owners
01:35
Jack Jostes: And, and so how did that opportunity come up for him? Was it you guys went hunting with a guide there and you just, it kind of happened organically that you started a relationship and they offered him a.
01:46
Wayne Herring: Job or so I think how it happened for my son not to go, you know, like too far back, but he's about to turn 18, Jack. And in 2020, I brought him to Colorado for the first time and went fishing and camping and roamed the state. And he picked up on my love of the state and it became, of course, his own and not mine. So that's really how it started. And he grew up around me and the organic farm and he's very handy and equipment oriented. But then ultimately a client of mine introduced me to Rocky Rivers Bend Outfitters, which is where he's working up in Meeker and, you know, relationships is what got to the point where he. After we did our drop camp hunt last year, he was in touch with the guide and Thomas handled everything.
02:34
Wayne Herring: I introduced him and I said, look, I'm not a helicopter parent. You guys handle it from here. Thomas wrote a cover letter that mentioned Jeremiah Johnson in it and told him about his experience working on the farm, etcetera, and desire to be in the mountains. And so here he is. Yeah, Yesterday he was on a horse.
02:52
Jack Jostes: That's the second time on the podcast that Jeremiah Johnson has been referenced.
02:57
Wayne Herring: The second time with me or other.
02:59
Jack Jostes: People, with somebody else. And it was hunting related. It was with Rich Lehman, my buddy and client who I hunt elk with. And he said when were hunting and it was 8 degrees and it was frigid and it was on our fifth day, so we hunted hard. And it was on our fifth day of hunting in 8 degree weather. And we almost ran out of Gasol and I bought gas from a guy up there, I had cash and I was like, hey, we're running low on gas. It looks like you have a fair amount. Would you, would you sell us a few gallons? And they did. And, but he said, and it was. Oh, what did he say? Everyone wants to be Jeremiah Johnson until they need to do Jeremiah Johnson shit.
03:40
Wayne Herring: Right? Yeah, for sure.
03:41
Jack Jostes: Right.
03:41
Wayne Herring: Right on.
Adventures In The Colorado Flatirons
03:42
Jack Jostes: So that was not a quote from Jeremiah Johnson, but a reference. So I'm glad that you brought that up. So that's cool. That's cool how that happened. And that's amazing that you brought him out here and you're kind of on a road trip. And right behind us is I think the first Flatiron. I'd have to look on a map. But we came to hike the Flatirons, which are these iconic mountain peaks in Boulder. In Boulder. And they're right behind us. I'm, I'm having fun. While were hiking up here, you said that you want to be able to run 10Ks in your 70s.
Wayne’s Goal To Run A 10K At 80
04:22
Wayne Herring: I want to finish a 10K on trail back in Pennsylvania. Not necessarily here when I'm 80.
04:29
Jack Jostes: Oh, when you're 80?
04:30
Wayne Herring: Yeah, yeah. And, and the inspiration for that is I did a race at home and in that race, which is a age graded start race.
04:39
Jack Jostes: Yeah, that.
04:40
Wayne Herring: So you get to see all the people that are older than you who start in front of you. There was an 83 year old woman who did that 10k race and when I saw her do that, I was like, that is one of the most Badass things I've ever seen. And, and you know, she didn' run like she kind of like shuffled around the course. To be able to do that at age 83 is incredible. Yeah. And I, and I think it's the kind of goal that if it's something to aim for. Right. None of us know if we're even going to make it till tomorrow for sure. However, having a goal like that, like a long range goal, I think can help a lot of other things stay in order. Right.
05:15
Wayne Herring: Because if the fitness and flexibility is such to be able to do that, I'll probably be able to be, you know, a grandpa and bounce a kid and chase him in the yard and things like that as well.
05:15
Staying Strong Enough To Hunt In Your 70s
05:26
Jack Jostes: I, I like it and I share a goal of I want to be able to hunt elk in my 70s and I, I was on an elk hunt. I was archery hunting. I was bow hunting with my cousin, basically cousin in law. But were, were at about 11000ft and I can't give away our spot but it was near the top of the World Trail.
05:48
Wayne Herring: Okay.
05:48
Jack Jostes: So there's this trail that is called the Top of the World Trail. And when you're there you feel like you're on top of the world because you can see basically all the peaks in the national park. And so we're there and we've got these, you know, packs and all this gear and equipment and this trail goes really high. Like we wouldn't even hunt where it went.
06:10
Wayne Herring: Right.
06:11
Jack Jostes: Super exposed and we're hiking there and all of a sudden there's this like 70 year old dude.
06:16
Wayne Herring: Okay.
06:17
Jack Jostes: And he's got a fanny pack, he's got, you know, sungl couple water bottles and that's basically it. Pretty light gear. And he's running over the top.
06:29
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
06:30
Jack Jostes: And, and like ran past us and this dude was in his 70s and I was like hell yeah. Yeah, I want to be able to do that.
06:36
Wayne Herring: Right on.
06:37
Jack Jostes: And my cousin said something that inspired me. He said I hope we get to hunt here with our kids when they're 18.
06:45
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
06:46
Jack Jostes: And so at that time it would have been 10 years later. Right. And so that kind of thing, that 10 year, 20 year, 30 year. Who are some people in their 70s and 80s who inspire you? Well, besides these people that we don't personally know these people but we've seen them.
Finding Inspiration In Lifelong Fitness
07:03
Wayne Herring: My, my grandfather who has since passed on, but I mean he was working loading trucks at my uncle and cousin's lumberyard when he was 80, 82 years old kind of deal. Right. So, so I've had people in my family that I've watched like that. Well, we talk, I don't know if he's seven. Have to be careful with people's age. Right. But Pete Koch, we both know him and he's a strength coach and used to play for the Kansas City Chiefs and the Raiders and he has really.
07:33
Jack Jostes: Right.
07:34
Wayne Herring: He. A long time ago he played. Yeah, it might be the 90s, but okay, he, but he has made lifetime fitness a goal of his and has always shredded.
07:44
Jack Jostes: Well, he's shredded and he's a good follow on LinkedIn. He has making you stronger 30 seconds at a time and he posts like yeah, 15 seconds of a workout and then 15 seconds of explaining what it is. And yeah, for sure. He's somebody. Tell us about. So you have a strength challenge going on, a fitness challenge. What's going on in your.
08:05
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
The Business Builder Fitness Challenge
08:05
Jack Jostes: In your business camp.
08:06
Wayne Herring: Yeah. So in Business Builder we have masterminds that we meet weekly and there's groups of guys that are building businesses but we also try to pay attention to family and fitness. And so I met a guy named Marcus Gates. So we'll give him a shout out who is an online fitness coach. He does a lot of one ones and calls putting together nutrition and eating plans. So he created a challenge for us where there are six of us that have joined it. It's completely optional but there's different things. We score points for hydration, sleep, gratitude to take into account mental and spiritual health and then some kind of workout and then paying attention to our macros and being protein centric in our diet.
08:51
Prioritizing Protein And Tracking Nutrition
08:51
Jack Jostes: Why is. Well, let's talk about protein. So I, you know, I did your, I did the fitness camp with Pete Koch five years ago.
09:00
Wayne Herring: Yeah, probably.
09:01
Jack Jostes: And it's been change the way I prioritize my nutrition because I, I had never at that time thought about.
09:08
Wayne Herring: Right.
09:10
Jack Jostes: How much of anything. Well, I mean like I was trying to eat healthy.
09:13
Wayne Herring: Right.
09:13
Jack Jostes: But that was kind of it.
09:14
Wayne Herring: Right.
09:15
Jack Jostes: And Pete's whole deal was to eat a gram of protein per body.
09:20
Wayne Herring: Weight per pound of body weight that.
09:23
Jack Jostes: You want to be at. So if you want to be 180 pounds, eat 180 grams of protein a day. And at first I started doing that and I just ended up overeating because it was hard because I remember I was eating a lot of multi ingredient foods like chili or gumbo or jambalaya or.
09:44
Wayne Herring: Which sounds good.
09:46
Jack Jostes: Yeah, they were great. But then I had no idea. Well, how many carbs was I eating? Many. How much fat did I have? How many total calories? So that was something I didn't really. And then I got better at it. I started using the app chronometer and a food scale. And that was a good exercise, I think, because then I learned how to now kind of eyeball it and know what I'm having. Why do you. Why is protein a big part of this program? Again, do you think so?
Using Focused Sprints To Create Change
10:17
Wayne Herring: I'm not a. You're not a nutritionist.
10:19
Jack Jostes: You're not. Right? That's okay.
10:20
Wayne Herring: But I do think one. One thing worth noting is describing the idea of doing a sprint or doing a period of time where you're paying attention to something about your whole, well, being in life. And we might do the same thing in business, too, where you have a sprint, where you're going to focus on recruiting new clients or employees, and you learn something by being in that period. So I think that's important. But protein. Yeah, I mean, porting the building block of. Of your life and your body. And the other thing is if you really. If you eat lean protein, it's hard to almost, like, eat too much of it. Right. Like, it kind of fills. It fills you up.
11:02
Jack Jostes: Well, that was the. That was where I ended up now was I'll prioritize having steak or eggs or whatever.
11:09
Wayne Herring: Lean chicken.
11:10
Jack Jostes: Or lean chicken.
11:11
Wayne Herring: And then I've been eating a lot of tuna in a packet.
11:13
Jack Jostes: Nice. I have tuna.
11:14
Wayne Herring: It's actually pretty good.
11:15
Jack Jostes: But then I. I don't feel as hungry for the rest of the other stuff.
11:19
Wayne Herring: Yep. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
11:22
Making Business Maintenance More Enjoyable
11:22
Jack Jostes: Well, that's cool. Yeah. And as far as sprints go, when you said that there. There was a time where our meeting quality was off track. There was a time where it was on track. And then it. You know, I remember my father in law saying that growing a business is fun, but maintaining one is. Is not.
11:41
Wayne Herring: Right.
11:42
Jack Jostes: And so there are certain parts of business that you just have to maintain that aren't fun, you know, and.
11:49
Wayne Herring: Well, or you make it fun, right? Or you make it fun. And that's why I think doing it for a season can be helpful. You mentioned was like, feel like I'm going down a rabbit trail, but you mentioned, like, going elk hunting and going to elk hunt. And I always think, like, one of the things about a hunting season is that it's a season. It's a period of time where you're focused on that activity and doing that thing. So. And I've of course, had the pleasure of watching you grow your business for a long time now. And I've observed you doing sprints or seasons of getting into a certain part of the business and looking at that closely and maybe redoing some of your standard process and procedure. And, you know, you can make anything fun if it's. It's a matter of thinking and.
12:34
Wayne Herring: Or maybe looking ahead to the rewards on the other side and while you're doing it anyway. Right.
12:39
Jack Jostes: Yeah.
12:40
Wayne Herring: You've done that.
12:41
Jack Jostes: Yeah, I do. That's kind of the. That's how I operate my company and.
12:47
Wayne Herring: Probably in life in a lot of ways, too.
Jack’s Fitness Sprint With His Sons
12:49
Jack Jostes: Yeah. So personally, right now, it's June 20th. Something. It's the 29th. And so that means I have basically eight weeks till archery season. And so I'm doing a sprint, if you will, with my two sons, where we're doing two rucks, and at the end of it, we do squats, push ups, and step ups. And they have little prizes. One of them wants a drone camera, which is something I want to support him with because he's interested. I think he's gifted at it, I think. You know, I don't know. I just think drone. I'm not into drones, but he is, and I'm into cameras and photography, so that'll be cool. And then the other one wants to go to a soccer game. So they're both things that I would want to do with them anyways, but it adds a little reward to it.
13:43
Jack Jostes: And so that's our sprint right now. And then I'm shooting my bow three times a week. And then one thing I'm doing this year that's interesting. So I'm recovering from a shoulder and neck nerve issue where, like, my arm was numb for seven months. And so this time, not only am I shooting my bow, but I'm also doing equal amount of training on the other side.
14:06
Wayne Herring: Okay.
14:06
Jack Jostes: To balance with a band. Yeah. And I.
14:12
Wayne Herring: That makes sense.
14:13
Jack Jostes: Just trying to strengthen that side of my body. Cause I found that, like, last year I got way into archery and I'm, like, really good. And then it was like my left arm was just kind of ruined by it because I overdid it.
14:26
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
14:28
Building Systems And AI Skills For Business
14:28
Jack Jostes: So that's. That's something that I'm. I'm working on right now that I'm excited about. And Claude skills is another thing that I'm really excited about. So I'm building. I went through a phase in my business where, like, when I discovered training videos, where I was like, oh, well, what if I Made one a week, and then I started making one video a week. And then I started making like two to three to five videos a week. And I now have hundreds of training videos.
14:53
Wayne Herring: Those. Training for your team?
14:55
Jack Jostes: Yeah, for my team. Of, like, how to get myself out of whatever repetitive task. And so right now I'm building Claude skills. And the way that I'm doing it is I'm thinking of an output that I want, for instance, a. A word doc with email content written in a certain way. And then I'm compiling examples of what good looks like, so examples of past emails, and I'm putting those in a folder on my computer and then I'm uploading them to Claude and I'm saving. Not part of the script. Hey, we're outside, we're going to move around. And then I'm saving the Claude skill and I'm. Now I'm able to do that work or have somebody else do it way faster.
15:41
Wayne Herring: Nice.
15:42
Jack Jostes: So that's. Have you, have you worked on those?
15:45
Wayne Herring: No, you and I talked about. You and I did a zoom the other day where I said, okay, my goal is to create a cloud skill.
15:51
Jack Jostes: Yeah, I, I just, I think you do a lot of work and you're like, hey, I do a lot of work with people and you do. And there's also a lot of. I think there's a lot of repetitive stuff involved, too.
16:01
Wayne Herring: Oh, there is. There, there is. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
16:05
Jack Jostes: Yeah.
16:05
Wayne Herring: There's places I can implement that. Yeah, that's next.
16:09
Jack Jostes: It's next.
16:10
Wayne Herring: After we get off the mountain.
Why Business Owners Need Adventures On The Calendar
16:11
Jack Jostes: So, so why are some of these. You know, we've talked about having adventures on the calendar or sprints or trips. I'm, you know, for folks who are new or maybe haven't heard this, or maybe they'd benefit from a reminder. Why do you. Why do you see that as important for business owners or professionals listening?
16:36
Wayne Herring: I think a lot of times the entrepreneurs I work with start businesses and they say I'm doing this because I want to have more balance, or maybe they don't call it that. I want to have more time with my family. Right. Like, finances and freedom are two primary reasons that people start businesses. And I think that putting things on the calendar, scheduling things, make sure that everything else lines up to get to that point, you know, so if I talk about, oh, I should spend more time with my kids while they're young, talking about it doesn't really get us anywhere. But if I. Like last year when Thomas and I did that wilderness elk hunt, I had committed to do that with the outfitter and bought the tickets or paid the deposit about two years ahead of time.
17:30
Wayne Herring: So then I have it in my calendar, and right there. Now there's so many things that he and I did to prepare for it that caused us to have other time together. Right. So I think it is important to have a race on the calendar, if you're into that, or you've done very intentional family vacations where you go on a significant trip that includes going back home, but you get it on the calendar. You start renting a vehicle or get a plane ticket or get Broadway tickets with your dog, you know, with your kid to go to a show, whatever. Yeah.
18:06
Jack Jostes: I just.
18:06
Wayne Herring: I think things like that help the. The things we said we wanted to do, like, balance actually happen.
18:13
Preventing Burnout And Creating Urgency
18:13
Jack Jostes: Yeah. And I think for folks listening, like my staff or employees of companies, I think it's important to do that, too, because I think you can burn out.
18:23
Wayne Herring: Sure. Yeah.
18:23
Jack Jostes: And having those. I found having those trips motivates me to then also get certain key projects done ahead of them.
18:30
Wayne Herring: Right.
18:30
Jack Jostes: And I know for my sales team, when they have a trip.
18:33
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
18:34
Jack Jostes: They always.
18:34
Wayne Herring: The last day of vacation. They always last day before they always.
18:37
Jack Jostes: Close a ton of business.
18:38
Wayne Herring: Yep.
18:38
Jack Jostes: You know, it creates urgency to get things done. And someone. Somebody was asking me. They're like, oh, they were. They were so, like, anxious about all the change with AI.
18:48
Wayne Herring: Right.
18:48
Jack Jostes: Whereas I'm. I'm feeling very energized by it.
18:52
Wayne Herring: I'm something new to dig into and learn about.
18:54
Jack Jostes: I'm, like, ever. I mean, there's. In some ways, it's overwhelming because I could compare myself to people who have completely AIed every aspect of their life, and they're completely AIed. Everything.
19:07
Wayne Herring: Sure.
19:08
Jack Jostes: Or I can just be like, wow, hey, I learned that I just saved myself half an hour a day. Some of these things, these quad skills that I've built. So. But part of it is I. I go and do things like this or the hunt or I took my friends fishing recently, and we hired a guide, and we caught. We caught huge, gorgeous trout, and were out on this river. And that stuff then makes me energized when I'm at work because I have fun stuff offline to go do that is not digital.
How Time Away Makes You A Better Leader
19:38
Wayne Herring: Yeah.
19:38
Jack Jostes: Like, I. I. Because I do sometimes feel like I don't want to look at my computer. I don't want to be online. I don't want to get an email from QuickBooks or whatever.
19:48
Wayne Herring: Right.
19:48
Jack Jostes: Yeah.
19:49
Wayne Herring: And I'm Not a neuroscientist, but I. There certainly have been studies done about your conscious and your subconscious brain and benefits of taking a break and not trying to continually sol a problem. And many of us know that sometimes answer becomes apparent when we're doing something like taking a shower, where we're completely not thinking about not trying to actively solve it. So, yeah, no doubt those periods of freedom and flexibility and hanging out with friends actually will rest your brain and make you better when you get back to the work.
20:21
Jack Jostes: Totally.
20:21
Protein, Burgers, And Business Builder Camp
20:21
Wayne Herring: I think so. And it helps you not be an asshole because your employees like that, too.
20:25
Jack Jostes: Yeah, they. They typically don't want to work for an asshole.
20:28
Wayne Herring: That's.
20:28
Jack Jostes: That's fair. Well, Wayne, we've got to finish our hike. We've got 25 miles back to the base, and then we're going to go. Have you been to the Buff before?
20:38
Wayne Herring: No, but.
20:38
Jack Jostes: Okay. The Buff is one of my favorite restaurants in Boulder. We're going to go there.
20:42
Wayne Herring: Is there protein there?
20:43
Jack Jostes: Oh, there's tons of protein. In fact, what I'm going to get is a burger with cheese and an egg.
20:49
Wayne Herring: Nice.
20:50
Jack Jostes: It's the, like, Buff Burger breakfast or something. Breakfast, burger.
20:54
Wayne Herring: Cool.
20:55
Jack Jostes: It's just pure protein.
20:56
Wayne Herring: Really good. And it's also good to get things other than protein, too.
21:00
Jack Jostes: Yeah, it'll come with some.
21:01
Wayne Herring: I'm figuring out an ice cream tonight before I leave town.
21:04
Jack Jostes: Wow. Well, you are set up for success. Tell us about your podcast and where else we can find you.
21:10
Wayne Herring: If you go to businessbuildercamp.com you'll find information about our larger gathering that we called Rendezvous and our. Our mastermind groups. And that's. That's the hub for everything that we're doing. Cool.
21:24
Jack Jostes: Businessbuildercamp.com that's right. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. Wayne Herring, thanks for coming on the landscapers guide. Yeah. For hiking up to the arch with me.
21:33
Wayne Herring: Pretty.
21:33
Jack Jostes: Pretty nice day.
21:34
Wayne Herring: Yeah, it's a great day.
21:35
Jack Jostes: All right, thanks.