Jack Jostes [00:00:00]:
What is happening in Colorado with water conservation?
Jacob Stankich [00:00:04]:
So Colorado is considered a headwater state. And so Colorado is kind of the focus of a lot of these water conservation conversations. So a couple years ago, the federal government, you know, was talking about coming in to these seven different states and saying, hey, if you can't really figure out how to work together and decrease your water usage by a certain percent, we're going to come in here and tell you how to make those cuts. We need to figure out how we can, as we look to the future, figure out how to best use water in our landscapes, in our urban environment. Because, you know, 50 plus percent of the water, depending on how you look at it, is used in outdoor is outdoor use, not indoor use.
00:48 - Meet Jacob Stankich: Water Conservation Taskforce Insights
Jack Jostes [00:00:48]:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide Podcast. Today I'm excited to talk about water conservation and the impact it has on the landscape industry with Jacob Stankich. He's the COO at Fisk Lawnscapes in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and he also last year served on the Urban Landscape Water Conservation Task Force here in Colorado. So, Jacob, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Jacob Stankich [00:01:16]:
Yeah, thanks for having me. Excited to be here.
Jack Jostes [00:01:19]:
So, Jacob, tell us a little bit about your background in the landscape industry and a little bit about the work you did with that water conservation task force.
Jacob Stankich [00:01:29]:
Sure, yeah. Thanks, Jack. So I've been in the industry for about 14 years now. I started off actually in Florida. That's where I went to school and during the summers worked a landscape job there. A lot of maintenance, a little bit of plant install. And that's kind of how I paid a lot of my way through college, was with that money that I earned during the summers there. But Colorado, I'm originally from Colorado.
Jacob Stankich [00:01:56]:
It's always been my home and wanted to get back out here. So after I graduated and I say I literally got burned out in Florida because landscape, you know, in the summer in Florida is really hot. So I kind of got burned out there. Moved back out to Colorado after graduating and wasn't actually looking to get into the landscape industry initially. Uh, but I needed a job and so met a connection out here and she said, oh, my brother owns a landscape company. His name has been Fisk. I said, great, fantastic. Let me jump on.
Jacob Stankich [00:02:35]:
You know, I know how to do landscaping and every landscaper is always looking to hire good people. Right. So jumped on. And now it's been almost 10 years at Fisk Lawnscapes and I started as a tech on a install crew, moved up to maintenance foreman, and then into the Maintenance division manager. So I managed both maintenance and the snow division. I managed those for about six years and then last year became the COO here at Fisk. So it's been really cool to see really the evolution of Fisk.
Jacob Stankich [00:03:16]:
Fisk has been around for 22 years. It's to be around for about half of that, see the growth be a part of that and the changes is really cool.
Jack Jostes [00:03:24]:
Well, that's great. Congrats on that. Amazing career growth and I love hearing stories like that.
03:32 - Colorado’s Role in Water Conservation: Challenges and Solutions
Jack Jostes [00:03:32]:
So tell us today. Really wanted to focus on water and I've lived in Colorado for 15 years and I've been working with landscape companies. A lot of my initial clients are here in Colorado. So I've been working with people on ranking on Google for xeriscaping and zeroscaping and sustainable landscaping and all these things. And this issue of water is impacting other states.
Jack Jostes [00:04:02]:
In fact, I just had a conversation with a client in Texas and he's like, you know what, we've never in this, in this particular area had to worry about it. But they're in a drought and there are changing, there's changes coming from the local and state law standpoint that's going to change how they do landscaping. And my perspective is, hey, this just creates a new opportunity for how you're going to do landscaping. So I wanted to hear from you some of your experience with it. What is happening in Colorado with, with water conservation? What's kind of the big picture?
Jacob Stankich [00:04:42]:
Yeah, so Colorado is considered a headwater state. So what that means is the Rocky Mountains here in Colorado collect a bunch of snow, that snow melts off into the Colorado river, and that river feeds down into really seven different states. And so Colorado is kind of the focus of a lot of these water conservation conversations that are being had because there's all kinds of water rights that are out there. Water rights is a huge conversation. Different states have different kinds of water rights and really there's more paper water rights than there are actually water in the river. So the allocations are actually higher than, you know, if everyone said, hey, I want my allocation, you'd have pull all the water out of the river and there'd still be more allocation to be given out. So a couple years ago, the federal government, you know, was talking about coming, coming in to these seven different states and saying, hey, if you can't really figure out how to work together and decrease your water usage by a certain percent, we're going to come in here and tell you how to make those cuts. And really, states don't like the federal government coming in and making those cuts.
Jacob Stankich [00:05:53]:
That was at really the height of the Colorado river crisis. We've since had some good snow. So the talk has lessened since then. But kind of out of that crisis, the Colorado government put together a task force, the Urban Landscape Water Conservation Task Force. And they said we need to figure out how we can, as we look to the future, figure out how to best use water in our landscapes, in our urban environment. Because, you know, 50 plus percent of the water, depending on how you look at it, is used in outdoor, is outdoor use, not indoor use. And so being able to control irrigation and you know, a big target right now is Kentucky bluegrass, a high water use grass is definitely part of the conversation.
Jack Jostes [00:06:43]:
Since that task force, what were some of the decisions that you guys made that are either rolling out or we should expect to see rolling out?
Jacob Stankich [00:06:52]:
Yeah, and you know, the task force, they weren't making law. It was more recommendations saying, here's what we've studied, here's what we've talked about, these are recommendations to the government of what should happen kind of next. So on this task force, we had lots of water providers, we had a couple landscape specialists, really people from all over the state who are heavily involved in water, trying to figure out what's the best way that we should use water and that we can make sure that our landscapes really stay beautiful. So some of this is promoting irrigation efficiency. You know, some of this involved water and land use kind of integration because those policies can be very different sometimes. Adopting turf policy. You know, again, the big target was that high water use or non functional water intensive grass. So people kind of defined non functional as, you know, if you're only using this turf when you're mowing it, then it's considered non functional.
Jacob Stankich [00:07:59]:
You know, doing messaging campaigns, figuring out how to collaborate together and work together. A lot of these water providers have their own standards, but, you know, they're not in sync with each other. And so being able to say, hey, we're going to be in sync with you and here's how we collaborate with landscapers because ultimately landscapers are going to be controlling a lot of this outdoor water use through irrigation.
08:21 - Transforming Turf: A Sustainable Library Landscape Design
Jack Jostes [00:08:21]:
Yeah, I agree. And I wanted to see. Maybe you could walk me through one of these designs that you did for the library.
Jacob Stankich [00:08:30]:
Yeah, absolutely. So I was kind of the project manager for this landscape conversion. So it was about an acre of bluegrass. And we actually did not come up with the design. We were the installer. And then we've Been maintaining it. We took about an acre of bluegrass and collaborated with the library and also with Colorado Springs Utilities to provide some rebates and make sure that, you know, it could be paid for in a sustainable way. And the idea was to make this library kind of like a showcase of different kinds of grasses and say, how could it be sustainable to test different native kinds of grasses? And so there was a design that was kind of handed to us and broke out.
Jacob Stankich [00:09:18]:
We used multiple different mixes of native grasses and even a couple kind of test grasses that weren't native grasses. And so we converted this landscape. So it's been really cool to see what that transformation looks like. How could this work in an everyday commercial setting? What problems did we see with it? Because really, in Colorado, we're figuring out, how do we make our landscapes beautiful and not just tear out all the turf, throw in a bunch of rock? And people often say we are a short grass prairie and we don't want to be Phoenix because Phoenix is more desert, and so it's easy to throw in a lot of rock, but we don't want to just throw in a lot of rock here.
Jack Jostes [00:10:14]:
Yeah. And you did end up including some Kentucky bluegrass in the final design, Right?
Jacob Stankich [00:10:20]:
There was a little bit. Yep, right by the entrance. The library wanted to make sure that at least something turned out really good, you know, especially their entrance. As people walk in really, you know, a year in, we're pretty happy with how the site looks overall. Colorado Springs utilities is their goal. And, you know, I'm in Colorado Springs, so that's why I keep referring to them. They say it's not when we move down to one day a week of irrigation or not if, but when. And so they're looking, you know, 20, 30 years ahead and saying, when we only have one day that we can irrigate, how are our landscapes going to thrive? And how can we have beautiful landscapes.
Jack Jostes [00:11:05]:
In that, you know? So how long has it been since the installation was finished?
Jacob Stankich [00:11:11]:
It was July, end of July last year. So it's been just over a year.
Jack Jostes [00:11:16]:
Okay, so you have about a year of data. How much less water does the new landscape require?
Jacob Stankich [00:11:23]:
Yeah, that's a great question. So there's a little bit of a process that first year that you have to establish it, you're going to be using more water overall. And so really, it's probably the third year that you really start seeing a lot of those savings. But just to give an idea, if you're watering a half inch every time you water, and in Colorado Springs, we're able to water three times a week, which means if we're doing a half inch, we're doing an inch and a half a week. That's sustainable for Kentucky bluegrass. Okay. With this native, we are going down to watering once a week. And so we're able to put down just about a half inch of irrigation.
Jacob Stankich [00:12:09]:
So we're saving about two thirds of the water that we would with Kentucky bluegrass.
Jack Jostes [00:12:15]:
And is that after the first three years or is that right out of the gate?
Jacob Stankich [00:12:20]:
No, it's a mix. So the first year we definitely watered more because we were trying to get everything established and growing. So this year we are trying to finish getting everything established. So for part of the year, we were down to about that once a year watering. But there are some spots that didn't come in really well. So we did have to water a little more to make sure that we had really good grass coverage. And so. But then we've backed down since then.
Jacob Stankich [00:12:46]:
So this year, again, will be a little bit higher than it will even be next year.
12:50 - Behind the Scenes at Fisk Lawnscapes: Projects and Progress
Jack Jostes [00:12:50]:
So tell me a little bit. So you've worked at Fisk Lawnscapes for about 10 years, right?
Jacob Stankich [00:12:57]:
Correct?
Jack Jostes [00:12:57]:
Yeah. And tell me a little bit about what type of projects do you guys do now and how are you seeing the designs and the plant selections change since you started there 10 years ago?
Jacob Stankich [00:13:11]:
I have a perfect example for this. Here at Fisk, we have three main divisions. So we do snow removal, we do commercial maintenance, and we do installation. A little bit of commercial installation, primarily focused on residential installation. As we've grown and changed over time, the kind of the scale of those projects has gotten bigger. So it's not like we've gained a whole bunch more customers. It's more like the. The customer, the type of customer, has a higher dollar amount.
Jacob Stankich [00:13:41]:
Ten years ago, yes, there were conversations about water usage and water conservation, but we were able to water, you know, five days a week easily. Now right now, we're actually doing a big park installation and there is zero Kentucky bluegrass specced on that park. It's all warm season native grasses, which is really interesting when you think about a park. There's also some artificial turf in there, but yeah, to have a new park install that from the beginning is specced with only warm season grasses. That shows the progression of policy, of standards. You know, even Colorado Springs utilities, the standards that they're setting out for all the new construction, you know, a lot of HOAs already restrict how much, you know, turf you can put in the yard, but now they're saying, okay, you can only have it in the backyard, or we're restricting it to these certain kinds of turf. So, yeah, there's a lot of change happening there.
Jacob Stankich [00:14:42]:
I'd say less on the plant material side. Native has kind of always been pushed in there just because our climate is really, really harsh and it's hard to get other things to grow here. But from a grass standpoint, yeah, it's really changed.
14:59 - Turf vs. Grass: Choosing the Best for Conservation and Beauty
Jack Jostes [00:14:59]:
How do you feel about artificial turf?
Jacob Stankich [00:15:02]:
I have mixed feelings on it. I think there are definitely places that you can be utilized well, but I wouldn't want to throw it everywhere. There's something about living grass that's really helpful, you know, with the environment. You know, grass helps cool things down. There's. There's something good and lifelike about it. You know, it helps with water filtration. So I definitely don't want to give up grass.
Jacob Stankich [00:15:28]:
But I think there are certain backyards or applications where it could be helpful for someone.
Jack Jostes [00:15:36]:
What do you have in your own yard?
Jacob Stankich [00:15:38]:
I have two kinds of grasses in my own yard, actually. Yeah. So in my backyard I have a little patch of Kentucky bluegrass and that's where my kids play a lot. And then in the front yard, we just started testing out some Bermuda grass, some cold, hardy Bermuda grass, which they are hopeful might work out here and might be a replacement for Kentucky bluegrass. I'm actually testing that in my front yard. That's not widely available, so it's fun to do that. And there's people who are for a new grass like that and people who are against it because. Because it's not native.
Jack Jostes [00:16:16]:
Well, yeah, I noticed that in this particular municipal project or the library rather, that a fair amount of the total grass was Bermuda grass. And it's noted that it's experimental.
Jacob Stankich [00:16:31]:
Yeah, it actually comes out of Oklahoma. And Bermuda grass is a warm season grass and you find it all throughout the South. So this is really the first one that is much more cold hardy. And so they're thinking, hey, maybe it can work in Colorado. We're at almost 7,000ft here in the Springs, and so elevation plays, you know, a role in that as well.
16:55 - Water-Saving Tips for Landscapers: Practical Strategies That Work
Jack Jostes [00:16:55]:
What are, what are some of the ways that other companies. People listening. Like I said at the beginning, you know, we have a ton of listeners in Colorado who are already aware of this. And we're seeing water conservation coming up as a topic in other states that are experiencing droughts like Texas or other places where, you know, some of these landscape companies have been using, you know, Kentucky bluegrass and having these big lawns and things. What, what kind of tips do you have for them to prepare for change and really, I think take advantage of the opportunity that's going to come from it.
Jacob Stankich [00:17:36]:
Right, right. I think irrigation efficiency is kind of top of the list. That's like the lowest hanging fruit that you can get. You know, making sure that you have, you know, good precipitation rates in your yard, that the coverage is good, you're going to use less water if you have really good coverage, making sure that, you know, your equipment isn't 30 years old, that you have updated standards of equipment even that you're being able to use smart controllers and able to actually program those well, they say a smart controller is only as smart as the person programming it. And so really looking at that low hanging fruit and saying, where can we optimize what we already have? Even from a spending standpoint, it's expensive to change, you know, a landscape and so to say, hey, we're just going to upgrade the irrigation system and make sure it's running as well as it can, that's huge right there. That's going to pay dividends.
Jack Jostes [00:18:35]:
Yeah, I think there's a ton of opportunity on the irrigation side. And one of the companies that we collaborate with is Weathermatic and they have a lot of really cool technology that helps landscapers optimize their irrigation systems and manage, you know, tons of properties using SmartLink technology. Have you guys used that at all or are you using Weathermatic?
Jacob Stankich [00:19:01]:
You know, we haven't used Weathermatic yet. We're exploring some stuff with them to see if that's a good option really from a efficiency standpoint because we have lots of properties and that could help us. Right now our kind of go to smart controllers. WeatherTrack, super duper helpful. There's a lot of settings and a lot of features in there. It's not for everyone and not for your beginner landscaper because it's pretty involved. But once you set it up and if you're monitoring it right, it can be really, really helpful for you.
19:33 - Closing Thoughts and How to Connect with Jacob
Jack Jostes [00:19:33]:
Well, thanks so much, Jacob Stankich. Where can we network with you if we want to learn more?
Jacob Stankich [00:19:39]:
Yeah, absolutely. If you want to find me, I'm on LinkedIn. If you want to look at Fisk Lawnscapes, we're kind of all over the place. We're redoing our website currently, so maybe check here in a couple weeks. But that's fisklawnscapes.com we're also on Instagram, Facebook and on LinkedIn a little bit. We also have some really cool videos on YouTube. So you can find us on YouTube as well.
Jack Jostes [00:20:03]:
Well Jacob, thanks so much. We'll put your links in the show notes and thanks so much for sharing what you're up to on The Landscaper's Guide. Appreciate it.
Jacob Stankich [00:20:11]:
Perfect. Thanks Jack.
Jack Jostes [00:20:13]:
Hey everyone, hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jacob Stankich. And if you did, make sure that you give this show a five star rating whether you're on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever you're listening. And hey, text a screenshot of this to a friend or share a link. Help spread the word and make sure you never miss an episode when you subscribe at landscapersguide.com/podcast, you'll get an email each week when the episode comes out and I'll instantly send you my top three episodes right away plus invitations to upcoming cool events. So subscribe at landscapersguide.com/podcast. My name is Jack Jostes and I look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper's Guide.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: landscapersguide.com/podcast
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: landscapersguide.com/toolbox
???? Check out Fisk Lawnscapes: www.fisklawnscapes.com
???? Get Connected with Jacob Stankich: www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-stankich-744306141