Jack Jostes:
Showing off your best landscape portfolio with professional photographs is a key part of attracting highly qualified leads to your lawn and landscape company, but should you take photos on your iPhone or use professional photographers? I actually recommend a combination of both. In fact, in this video podcast, I'm recording the intro right now on my iPhone, and the rest of the podcast, I shot with my DSLR cameras. The key though is setting up a good shot and doing it well. In today's podcast, I interview a professional landscape photographer who's going to give you tips on how to take excellent photos with your smartphone and what to look for when you're hiring a photographer so you end up getting the best results from your photography. Pay attention because you want to do this this spring and summer while your landscapes are looking sharp.
All right, everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide. Today, I'm excited to interview Corey Kline from Corey Anthony Photography. He's based in Denver, Colorado right down the road from me in Lyons, and he has clients all over the country. So, Corey, thanks so much for coming on the show today.
Corey Kline:
Yes. Thanks for having me.
Jack Jostes:
So, Corey, tell me a little bit, what kind of photography do you do?
Corey Kline:
Yes. I'm an architectural photographer. I specialize in residential, multifamily, automobile. I've shot dealerships, and then also hospitality.
Corey’s Background
Jack Jostes:
How did you get into photography? Did you start when you were a little kid, or how did you get into this?
Corey Kline:
Growing up as a kid, me and my family, we'd camp up in Grand Lake. With my mom, we'd wake up before Sunrise, and I'd watch her photograph the moose and elk before sunrise and throughout the morning, especially during the rut. It's a pretty cool thing to experience, but it really wasn't until high school that I finally picked up a camera for myself and focused more on landscape and just whatever my eye took me to. I think that's how a lot of beginning photographers get into it. They just shoot whatever interests them, and so I did that for a little bit. Never really thought about photography too much as a career, and then throughout college, I was working at the Denver Athletic Club. I did three years banquets, three years in the restaurant. Then, it was about my fifth year in that my wife encouraged me to take an international trip just for myself. It's a great learning experience. So I found myself in New Zealand for three weeks, and had my camera with me, and captured everything with the landscape, and just fell in love.
I think I really found my eye for photography on that trip. When I came back home, that changed things, and yeah, I just ended up leaving the Denver Athletic Club, met a local blogger, Denver Darling, in Denver and shot with her, and didn't really know where photography was going to take me. Through the clients that I met, working with her, one of them was a broker, and I've met the brand manager for Sonic Automotive, and yeah, just started shooting a lot more architecture. Something I never really thought of, but found that shooting a house, or a building, or business, I was able to turn it into a work of art just like a landscape, so.
Why Is Photography Important To Sales And Marketing?
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Absolutely. Tell me a little bit, why is photography important to sales and marketing?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. I think with our digital age, we definitely translate the quality of image to the quality of product and service that we're going to receive. I usually like to say it's like if you look at a McDonald's ad or something, you know the food is not great, but the pictures look fantastic, and you want to go eat it. But maybe the hole in the wall restaurant, you go online, and you look at the photos, and you're like, "Yeah. I'm not quite so sure," but they might have the best food in the world. So we definitely make images a priority, and it's interesting. When I was first pursuing the photography career and in my research, I think I saw it was like 94% of people thought that image was important to their purchasing decisions. So I think it just plays a very important role in our world right now and how we consume as people, so.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, it totally does, and it reminds me of... Just over the weekend, my wife and I were planning a trip, and we were looking on Airbnb, and wow, are photos so important there.
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Even for just renting a place for a couple nights.
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely.
Jack Jostes:
One of the places, for some reason, all of the photos were black. It was like they uploaded some photos, and they weren't displaying or something, but we were like, "There's no way that we would rent a place without seeing it first."
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. It pulls on the credibility a little. You think it's like, "Well, if you don't have good images, then it's like..." You think that they didn't go the extra step in other parts of their business or whatnot as well, so.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, and in landscaping and selling landscaping, even referrals are going to look at your photos, right? Even if a referral googles you, one of the first places that we focus as an agency with our clients at Ramblin Jackson is getting your Google My Business photos to be the best, most current photos. What I've found is a lot of our clients have been in business for 10, 20, some of them 30 years, and they have photos of projects that they used to do 15 years ago, and they don't even want those leads. Right? So the photos can... they really impact people instantly of like, "This is the type of work that you do, and here's what I can expect."
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. It's the first way that people see you, and it might be the last time if it's not catching their eye or not telling your story properly.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Actually, I'm working on a remodeling project, and we had a few people that we found online, a few referrals. I can tell you that we eliminated one of the most highly referred people because their photos were awful. We didn't like them. I don't want my house to look like this.
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely. Yeah.
What Makes A Good Photo?
Jack Jostes:
So what then makes a good photo? I feel like you look at a photo, and you just have a sense of like, "Yeah, this is a good photo or not." Break it down for us. What are, really, the elements of a good photo, especially for a landscape?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. I think what makes a good photo is if it's just easy for the viewer, but it translates in the eye really well. It feels natural. It tells the story really quickly. Again, I think we're so infiltrated with imagery. It just needs to be quick. We just need to translate really quickly, and so one of the things that I focus on in my work is making it distraction-free. Then, with that, I think we need to line things up, like make sure all your chairs are lined up and nothing is crooked or seems out of place. Nothing that really draws your eye to something that you don't want it to... a pillow hanging off of a chair or something like that.
Then, always important I think is lighting. You don't want it overshadow-Y. You just want nice, even lighting. My favorite is definitely twilight. You get a good balance between landscape, accent lighting, the building lighting, anything like that also mixed with the natural lighting, and then you also don't have heavy shadow cast or anything like that, so you just get a full complete story. Then, I would definitely say straight lines. I think especially as we go around with our cell phone, it's easy to point and shoot, but oftentimes, we might be angling down or angling up, and it's just not very natural to the human eye to see lines. It feels wonky, or distorted, or warped when we start changing that focal, or field of view, or whatnot, so.
Tools You Can Use On Your Phone To Set Up A Good Shot
Jack Jostes:
What are maybe some of the tools that you can use on your phone to set up a good shot and make sure that you have good lines? Some of those things like we were talking about the furniture. So a lot of my clients will take photos of an outdoor living space where there's an outdoor sofa, and there's pillows on it. Are they just randomly stuffed on there, or are they placed on there?
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Aside from that, maybe what are some tips with iPhone or a smartphone?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. So I think an easy example might be if you have a swimming pool. If you're at the end of the swimming pool, you go stand in the middle, and you just look at your leading lines of the pool where it just goes to a point. I don't know if we remember that from elementary school art where you draw to a point, but yeah, you have all your lines, your chairs straight. Use the grid on your cellphone. Place it. Make sure that everything just looks really nice, and square, and level. It's like looking at a bad picture or a crooked picture on the wall, like your eye is going to... You're definitely going to notice that. So using those grids on your cellphone can definitely help line things up.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. I love using the grids, and one of the things I'm curious, what you think about this tactic, but I'll put the grids on, and I'll try and find something that is very likely to be level in a building, and then line up my grids with that before I take my picture.
Corey Kline:
Yeah. Definitely.
Jack Jostes:
Is that a good...
Corey Kline:
Oh, I do that all the time.
Jack Jostes:Yeah.
Corey Kline:
It's become so natural to me where I'm looking through my viewfinder, and then I'll be dialing in my tripod. Yeah. It's just you find a wall, that that's going to be straight, or if we're looking at the instance of the swimming pool, hopefully that swimming pool is straight and square. So you can use those as the lines or using the horizon just in your view as itself, so.
Jack Jostes:
Absolutely, and so I think there's the time and place for smartphone photography for landscaping. One of our clients, and we've actually interviewed them on this show, they have a photo contest from their employees. So they have this amazing system where you email the photo to this special email address, and then through Zapier, it uploads it to Google Drive. So it makes it really easy for them to collect photos from their employees. Then, every month, they have this ritual, this meeting where they celebrate the best photo, and they vote on them, and that person gets a cash prize. I love that because it creates some bonding. It creates an incentive for people to actually share the photos. So now they're getting them, and those are going on social media and their website. Above all, I think it creates a culture around doing good work of like, "Hey, we are proud of this lawn that we just mowed enough to take a photo and share it in front of a bunch of other people." Right?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, pride and I think having something outside of ourselves a little bit where it gives us a little more purpose and fulfillment in the day-to-day work. Yeah.
Things To Look For When Hiring A Professional Photographer For Your Landscape Company
Jack Jostes:
So there's definitely a place for smartphone photography. Also, I strongly recommend having professional photos. In the work that I do with clients, we have the Landscapers Foundation of Digital Marketing, and part of it... The first part is branding and differentiation, and part of that, I have visual identity. So having photos of your people in uniform, having photos of your vehicles, that all helps reinforce the word of mouth or the street views that you're going to get of your vehicles. So if people see that, and then they're online, and they see the truck again that they've seen driving in their neighborhood, it creates that feeling of, "Yeah, this is familiar to me."
Absolutely, the portfolio photos, and I can share numerous examples of clients who come to me. We're doing everything else. We've built a really great website. We're ranking well on online for SEO for all their keywords. They've got good reviews. But when the photos are terrible, it's not working. When people say, "Jack, it's not working," it's usually one of those things are off, and we often say, "You need professional photos. We got to prune out these old photos." Some of them, literally, are dated. Some people have scans of photos that were printed at Walgreens with the date in the corner. So that's an indicator it's time to hire a professional, if you still have that. So what are some things to look for when you're hiring a professional photographer for your landscape company?
Corey Kline:
I think first and foremost is their body of work. Is it clean? I think at this point, hopefully, we know what a good image looks like, and I think part of it for me is it's art, and what makes art? Art is being transported into a moment, whether it's music or a photograph. That's what makes great art is you're transported there. So it's like if you're looking through someone's portfolio of work, and it doesn't feel that way, then it might be good to go look at the next where you actually feel something from it, where their photos are telling a story. Making sure that they are paying attention to those details. Are the chairs crooked in their photos, or are they going the extra step and lining everything up, and it looks very curated?
Then, I would say don't be afraid in that conversation when hiring to see more of the work, and then in that conversation, I mean, think about how you do sales yourself. Are you guiding the conversation, or are they? Does it seem like they're professional in the field, or are they a rookie, or they just want to show up and shoot? Are they talking about the time of day, the best lighting, the best angles, stuff like that? Then, third I would say is the equipment. I think equipment can tell what weapons are in the arsenal for them to pull off these shots. I'd say the camera is important, of course. I don't think it's as important as sometimes the lenses in my opinion, but I think having a good wide-angle lens, having a telephoto lens.
Questions To Ask About Gear
Jack Jostes:
Well, so for somebody who... They're wanting to hire a professional. What questions should they ask around gear? Because most people, if they haven't done photography or video, they're not going to know, and they're just going to assume. So what are maybe some things that you would absolutely want to see?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. Some things I'd definitely want to see is a tripod. Tripod is just going to really help give those straight lines. Being able to compose. Also, with that, there's going to be... If you're shooting twilight, there's going to be tricky lighting where you need the stabilization for the longer shutters. If you're shooting water, you'd want a long exposure. Stuff like that. So a tripod. Lenses, you want a wide angle. I'd say depending on what you're needing, a telephoto is good for detail photos, but then also, telephoto is good for compression. So, out here in Colorado, if you have a patio with a mountain view, you might want to use a telephoto and compress those mountains to your fire pit or whatever so it just feels very engulfing like you're just there.
A tilt shift isn't necessary, but something that definitely could be helpful for certain scenarios. I say it's like if you're in a pergola, and you have a pool view, and you have your grill, your outdoor kitchen, and you want to see that, you might want your camera up higher, but then you don't want to just shoot the top of the grill so you can tilt-shift down, and then you'll see more of the grill within your viewpoint. So it's not necessary. It's just another tool, and then I think techniques. I think for me, I use a technique with water. If you have a waterfall, a water feature, a pool, I'll use a neutral density filter. With that, it allows me to have a long exposure, and that's just going smooth out the water. If you have a fountain, it's going smooth it out. It gives that cotton candy and feels like movement in a photo rather than it just freezing the water in the moment and just looks jaggedy and it's just frozen, I would say so.
Jack Jostes:
Sure.
Corey Kline:
I think there's stuff like that, just what type of techniques can you use, and sometimes it's like if they can't really come up with anything, then you'll... In your interview process with multiple photographers, you'll see and be able to gauge what might differentiate one from another and what fits your needs.
Jack Jostes:
Do you shoot people, or do you mainly shoot architecture?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. I've shot people. I think it's interesting just how every aspect of... or different photography is a different art form. So it's definitely something I can do, but yeah, it's different when you're shooting a still object versus working with people, and posing them, and stuff like that.
Jack Jostes:
I have a really great photographer who's great at people. I haven't had the best results on the landscape photos, but I've found they're just different personality types, really, and I think it's okay to specialize, and it creates, I think, a challenge. A lot of times, my clients will say, "Hey. You know what? I hired my photographer to do video. I have a client, and they didn't record the audio. They didn't use a microphone, and so the audio was recorded from 20 feet away." It was gorgeous. It was beautiful-looking, but it wouldn't work for the actual purpose of somebody watching and listening to a video, and so I think it's just... I'm bringing this up because a lot of times, the people listening will say, "Hey, I know somebody that has a camera." That's fine. Maybe you want to give somebody an opportunity, but I think there are certain photos that you need that need to be excellent, and they need to be done really well. You may use these photos for 10 years if they're done well, and they're photos... one of your people and your vehicles, and that's a different type of shoot. Then, there's the photos of the work that you've produced, the yards and things like that.
Corey Kline:
Yeah. Definitely. I think in business, we wear so many hats that I think it's important for us to really focus, and specialize, and allow someone that's good at it to do that. I think in my business, I've realized that to a point as well where when I was trying to be at jack of all trades and just do everything, I eventually realized it's not fair to my clients to give them subpar of this, and subpar of this, and great this, and whatever. So I think it's important to find the specialist. Take that time to find the photographer that's going to give you those hero shots and those jaw-dropping photos that's going bring your clients in.
I hate to see people and businesses that have a really great product and service, but they're afraid to put the investment into that to really sell themselves and allow them to expand themselves. I think that became the cornerstone of my work was in college, my friend and I started a clothing company. Sorry to go off on a side tangent, but I think I realized how difficult it is to stand out. I think with photography, it gave me the opportunity to provide high-quality images for my clients, and in turn, it allows them to stand out from their competition, and raise their revenues, and provide more financial freedom for themselves and for others, the ones that they're working for, so.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Specializing in something is a key part of our message too, of picking a hell-yes customer, and then what... You don't sell to everybody. You sell to a certain customer, and what do you really do well at?
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Right now, with the recession, and all of these talks, and economic challenges, the people who specialize in solving a specific problem are going to do better than the people who are like, "Oh, I do everything for everyone." Right?
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I don't know about you, but when I have less money or I'm more stressed, I'm even more careful about how I spend it.
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely.
The Importance Of Photos In Online Research
Jack Jostes:
That's how most people are, and then the photos, right? That's why the photos are so important to the online research that people are doing.
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely. Yeah. I was actually listening to another podcast that you had with someone, and he was talking about the outdoor fireplaces, like that just wasn't a thing. Look at what images and media has done like HGTV where it's just like you see something, and we as customers want it, like everything wants to... We need it to be a Pinterest board or an Instagram-worthy story. I don't know the landscape world that well, I'm sure, but I'd imagined 20 years ago, it was like, "I want a deck, and I want to eat outside." Now, it's like, "No. I want this cozy atmosphere with a fireplace and just something that's just dreamy." You know?
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Definitely. The trends have changed, and that's partly why you've got to keep these up to date With current design changes. If you're only showing photos of landscapes that you did 10 or 15 years ago, people don't see the thing that they saw on HGTV that you actually offer in those first photos on your website, and then your Google My Business listing. They may stop spending time considering you and move on to the next person.
Corey Kline:
Oh, definitely. Yeah, and I think that people are looking for you for a specific reason. To go back to the jack of all trades, if you just do everything okay, it's not going to be the same as doing one thing great that's like, "Wow. Heck, yeah. I need to hire this person." Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Right on. Well, Corey, thanks so much for coming on the show. Do you post photos on Instagram?
Corey Kline:
Yeah. I need to be a little bit better at it, but I do.
Jack Jostes:
Okay.
Corey Kline:
So my business Instagram is Corey Anthony Photography, C-O-R-E-Y Anthony Photography, and then my landscape artwork is just Corey Anthony, and that's a little more of a personal page, so.
Jack Jostes:
Cool.
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Well, thanks so much for coming on the show. We definitely learned a lot.
Corey Kline:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
For people listening, hopefully, they get inspired to make some great photos because they're such an important part of sales and marketing for landscaping.
Corey Kline:
Yeah. Definitely.
Jack Jostes:
I hope you learned a ton of tips that are going to help you take better photographs this spring and summer, so you're always building your portfolio to continue getting more of your hell-yes customers finding you online. If you're a current Ramblin Jackson client listening to this, reach out to your account manager to learn more about the photography packages we've created with Corey where we'll fly out to your location and help shoot excellent photos of your best work. If you're new to Ramblin Jackson and you'd like to have a marketing conversation to learn more about how we can help you design a marketing plan that generates more of your hell-yes customers, just reach out at landscapersguide.com/brainstorm to book your 15-minute marketing brainstorm. I've got a link to that in the show notes. My name is Jack Jostes. Thanks so much for checking out The Landscaper's Guide Podcast. I look forward to talking with you next week.