Stuart Ward [00:00:00]:
I like to tell the guys, usually when I'm asking them to do something that's very unpleasant, that there's nothing I'm asking you to do that I have not done. And that is true. I think, for both of us. I think the fact that we've both done it gives us some credibility with the guys and they appreciate that.
Jack Jostes [00:00:16]:
Especially with you being the son of Stuart, because in some companies, the person in your position hasn't done all of that work and you might not have the street cred with the crews. So you've done all of the work.
Andrew Ward [00:00:29]:
Yeah. I think in our industry, respect is a big thing, from your labor guys up to management. I think if they feel like you don't, you can't speak from experience, they don't trust you. It's hard to build a good, positive company culture without that trust and respect from both ends, both sides of the business.
00:48 – Welcome to Buckhead Landscape: Family-Owned in Atlanta
Jack Jostes [00:00:48]:
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide. Right now, I'm in a historic mansion. Airbnb, is it fair to say this is a mansion?
Stuart Ward [00:00:56]:
It's 1877.
Jack Jostes [00:00:58]:
It's 1877. This is so cool. We are here for the Bach Business Partners Conference, and I'm with Andrew and Stuart from Buckhead, a landscape company from the Atlanta, Georgia area. We're going to talk about how to handle social media crises because you guys certainly had one. We're going to talk about your family business and then maybe some podcast stuff, because we are hanging out, drinking coffee and making a podcast. So, Stuart, why don't you tell us a little bit about Buckhead?
Stuart Ward [00:01:28]:
Buckhead started back in the mid-90s, and at the time, I was a professional. I had a totally separate business. I worked for a company, I traveled, and this started as a hobby for me. And I always took care of my own property. And it kind of blossomed from there where other people were asking me to help them with their property. And it got to the point where I couldn't do both anymore. And I thought, could I make a run for it? And that's when I went for it. And that was probably 96, 97 was able to grow to where we are today by it's a very scalable business where you can add a crew, add a guy and a crew, and you can build it as your business grows.
Stuart Ward [00:02:15]:
And we had challenges over the years, like everyone does. Once I could not personally do every bit of the work, and you have to start bringing people on to help you and maintaining the quality level that becomes the challenge. I think for most small business owners that's the case is maintaining a quality level. When you get so big, you can't personally do it all. But we're at the point now where we have five maintenance crews, we have two project crews, we have a spray crew, and we have some big plans for the year. So we're excited.
Jack Jostes [00:02:46]:
Cool. So you've got five maintenance crews and two install crews and a spray crew?
Stuart Ward [00:02:52]:
Correct, Correct.
Jack Jostes [00:02:53]:
And where do you see the business heading? Where are you looking to grow to?
Stuart Ward [00:02:57]:
We have plans to add a dedicated irrigation crew. We've talked about adding a lighting crew and add more to our project crew and then build all of them kind of in the same scale as we grow.
03:11 – Andrew’s Ground-Up Journey in the Company
Jack Jostes [00:03:11]:
That's great. And Andrew, what all do you do in the business?
Andrew Ward [00:03:14]:
So I've done a little bit of everything. So I started with the company maybe when I was 16, 17. So I started all the way down at the bottom. I've done just about everything with the company. I've cut grass edge, blown run our maintenance crews, I've sprayed chemicals. I did that for a couple of years. Then I was on our install or project team. So I spent a handful of years doing all of that.
Andrew Ward [00:03:41]:
And then from there I transitioned up to project management and then manager, which is what I'm doing now. So really just seeing a lot of the day to day operations with everything.
Jack Jostes [00:03:53]:
What was it like growing up around the business?
Stuart Ward [00:03:56]:
His involvement came a little bit later, after the business had kind of found some traction. And I think he was looking for some work at the time. And you know, you bring your son on to help and we put him in the trenches and he's grown as the business has grown and that's kind of where we are today. But I think we both. I like to tell the guys, usually when I'm asking them to do something that's very unpleasant, that there's nothing I'm asking you to do that I have not done. And that is true, I think, for both of us. So we understand the difficulty of a lot of the things that we do. Some of it's horrible work.
Stuart Ward [00:04:32]:
You know, it's hot, it's humid, there's bugs, there's. I mean, it's really, really tough. And we appreciate the work the guys do. But I think the fact that we've both done it gives us some credibility with the guys. And they appreciate that.
Jack Jostes [00:04:44]:
Well, I think. I think it does. Especially with, with you being the son of Stuart. Because in some companies the person in your position hasn't Done all of that work and you might not have the street cred with the, with the crews. So you've done all of the work.
Andrew Ward [00:05:00]:
Yeah. I think in our industry, respect is a big thing from your labor guys up to management. And I think if they feel like you can't speak from experience, they don't trust you. And it's hard to build a good, positive company culture without that trust and respect from both ends, both sides of the business.
Stuart Ward [00:05:19]:
Asking a crew to do something and then hopping in the truck while you're on the phone, you get a lot of resentment and you don't get the production and the respect from the crew.
Andrew Ward [00:05:30]:
I think that's how a lot of the companies in our industry are. So I don't think there's a lot that their management have been hands on in the field as much as we have. I mean, just like he said, we've done every single bit of the business, so we know it inside and out and I think that's super helpful.
05:51 – Client Loyalty & What Makes Buckhead Different
Jack Jostes [00:05:51]:
What are some things that you saw your dad obsess over when you were a kid that you think made the company successful?
Andrew Ward [00:05:58]:
Client relationship. That would be the number one thing. He has always had an extreme focus on that. And I think beyond just having a focus on the client relationship, I've always seen my father as a very personable person. So clients weren't just clients to him. Clients were friends. He built and grew relationships that have lasted. I mean, some clients we've had for 20 plus years.
Andrew Ward [00:06:28]:
And it's, it's a testament to the relationship and the effort that he's put into that with those clients. So that's one, I would say that would be the number one thing, is that building that customer relationship. That's one thing that I've learned from him.
Stuart Ward [00:06:40]:
One thing I tried to do. You know, there's a million landscape companies. A guy in a truck and a mower is a landscape company. So, you know, especially in Atlanta, they're all over the place. So how do you distinguish yourself from the other ones? What makes you different? And the one thing I tried, and we still try to do is because I worked kind of in the business world or professional world, I tried to bring that work ethic and that professionalism to what we do. Things as simple as returning calls, promptly being professional, and emails and correspondence and just working with people at the professional level. I think people appreciate that. And the types of clients that we have and that we want more of are at that level.
Stuart Ward [00:07:24]:
They're all working professionals, very successful and they appreciate that type of relationship. And that's really worked for us. Our catchphrase, our niche, is “We Know Buckhead.” And what we mean by that is we understand what's important to you. You have a big event and we know it's really important to you and we get it and we're going to be there for you and make sure that you're happy with our service.
07:46 – Sales Lessons from Cold Calls to Delta Airlines
Jack Jostes [00:07:46]:
Where do you feel like you learned how to do that? Client management in the business world. I mean, when just, did you grow up around it? Were your parents in business or did you.
Stuart Ward [00:07:56]:
Well, my father was a executive professional and so I guess that was in our DNA, I suppose you could say. But in a previous job we used to have to call, I was in national sales and we would have to call on executive level people, the highest level, and, you know, have a relationship with them. So I guess that's where I, I learned to do it. And I'll share a funny little story with you if you want. So I was in sales and one of our potential clients was Delta Airlines. And we had to reach up because we were trying to sell like financial training, executive training. So you had to reach the top level and have to do cold calls. And you're never gonna reach the CEO of Delta, right? They've got gatekeepers, right? So my manager is like, well, you need to call like at 6:30 in the morning because no one else is gonna be there, but that CEO is probably gonna be there.
Stuart Ward [00:08:59]:
And I was like, oh my God, what if he's there? You know? And I remember being in the office, my manager was on the phone listening as I was making the call and I'm dialing, I was like, oh, please don't answer, don't answer. Ring, ring, ring. Hello. Like, oh my gosh, I'm talking to the CEO of Delta. And man, you gotta be fast. You can't say, oh, Mr. Smith, how are you today? You know, you cannot, no pleasantries, you got to get down to business. But I think experiences like that, although they were terrifying, it kind of ingrains in you the importance of being professional, dealing with high level people and meeting their expectations.
Stuart Ward [00:09:41]:
And that's really where we want to be as a company.
Jack Jostes [00:09:43]:
Well, so what did you say to him?
Stuart Ward [00:09:45]:
Basically? Basically, yeah, I don't remember other than the terror. But, but what we were trying to do, I don't remember our little kind of elevator pitch, but it was essentially we were trying to sell executive level financial training. So we, you know, companies want their Executive team to have a deep understanding of finance and what it means kind of in everyday terms. And we were selling that approach. So as I recall, said something to him about the importance of it. Wouldn't you find it important to you as a company to have your executive team all at the same level of financial understanding? Wouldn't help you run the company. And that was kind of the hook.
Andrew Ward [00:10:30]:
Did you sell him?
Stuart Ward [00:10:31]:
Yeah, as I recall, he said something to the terms of that sounds great, you need to talk to our executive training team. Here's the name and number. And then that allows me to call Mr. Executive Trainer. I just spoke to Mr. CEO.
Stuart Ward [00:10:45]:
He suggested I call you. You think you're going to get an appointment? Probably. And we did. So those type of experiences I think have helped me and helped our company kind of work at that level.
Jack Jostes [00:10:57]:
Love it. Andrew, what's the best cold call you've ever done? What do you think?
Andrew Ward [00:11:02]:
I have never done cold calling.
Jack Jostes [00:11:04]:
Okay.
Andrew Ward [00:11:04]:
Never have. Don't want to.
Stuart Ward [00:11:06]:
They're awful. They're awful. Some people love them. I mean the hunters. But it takes a certain personality. I think someone who can take rejection day in and day, night, day in and day out, day out, whatever. But someone who can face rejection and just keep on, you know, soldiering through.
Jack Jostes [00:11:25]:
I love it. Have you guys ever done door to door sales?
Stuart Ward [00:11:28]:
No.
Andrew Ward [00:11:30]:
No, not intentionally. I've knocked on a neighbor's door if we've like cut a gas line or something. So I don't know if that. I don't know if that counts.
Stuart Ward [00:11:40]:
Some soft sells, so. And we'll talk about the Bach team later. But hey, pardon the dust kind of approach. We're doing a project next door. Knock, knock, knock. If we disturb you, let us know. And then, by the way, here's my card. And that way at least you kind of got your foot in the door just a little bit.
Stuart Ward [00:11:58]:
But it's not like a full sales pitch. But it's a soft sell.
Jack Jostes [00:12:02]:
Yeah.
Stuart Ward [00:12:02]:
So we may have gotten a couple of things off that.
Jack Jostes [00:12:05]:
So that's close. Yeah, that's close. Not quite a cold call.
12:08 – Why They’re Hiring a “Hunter” for Commercial Sales
Stuart Ward [00:12:08]:
On the same topic though, we talk about future plans. A salesperson is in our budget for the year. What we have learned in the past is you need to have some other pieces in place before you have a salesperson in place so you can support their efforts. But we know we need a hunter.
Jack Jostes [00:12:25]:
Will they be doing exclusively residential or will they be doing commercial?
Andrew Ward [00:12:30]:
Because we, we would really love to expand the commercial side of our business.
Jack Jostes [00:12:33]:
I thought so, yeah, so I think that you're going to need to have a hunter who can pick up the phone, who can use LinkedIn, cold email, send people things in the mail, invite people to lunch. I think that's how we sell at Ramblin Jackson. And it is also a very relational approach that we take. Whereas I look at, I've actually counted that it takes often 18 touches to get to an appointment with someone. So you need somebody who can stick with 18 no's. Not that they're telling us no's, but it might be an email, it might be a, hey, we're doing an event. Would you guys like to join us? That counts. Or a voicemail.
Jack Jostes [00:13:14]:
I've interviewed a number of customers of mine who say, you know, I remember a voicemail I got. It was weird. I remember I interviewed a guy and he told me about a voicemail we had left him like two years ago. He's like, oh, yeah, I remember you left me a voicemail for this event in October of 2017. And it was like 2019. And I'm like, but it stuck. It stuck. So.
Jack Jostes [00:13:37]:
So that's why I'm a big advocate of multi-touch multimedia marketing as a part of sales outreach.
Stuart Ward [00:13:45]:
So that multimedia kind of softens the prospect. And I always say it's a very fine line between persistence and annoyance.
Jack Jostes [00:13:53]:
I agree. It's on a spectrum.
Stuart Ward [00:13:55]:
Yeah. And you don't want to upset a potential lead, but you also want to be top of mind with that lead. It may not be the right time for them to buy from you.
Jack Jostes [00:14:04]:
It might not be. But one of the number one things clients hate about landscape companies is that they don't communicate. They don't. Maybe they contact. I mean, do you ever hear this, oh, you're the first landscaper that answered the phone. Or you're the first landscaper that showed up for.
Stuart Ward [00:14:20]:
The bar is really low.
Jack Jostes [00:14:22]:
The bar is really low. So if you're persistent at basic stuff, you stand out. And so maybe they already have a landscape contractor, but things start going south and you've been persistent and helpful and now they're. Maybe they're. Well, yeah, I would have lunch or I would talk to you. Great.
14:34 – The Social Media Crisis That Rocked Their Company
Jack Jostes [00:14:34]:
So I wanted to hear you guys had a horror story. Let's just, let's hear about it. What happened? So it's spring. Is. It's fe. February.
Stuart Ward [00:14:46]:
So this was August.
Andrew Ward [00:14:47]:
This was, this was in August of 2024.
Stuart Ward [00:14:50]:
So do you want to give the overview?
Andrew Ward [00:14:51]:
Sure, yeah, yeah, I'll give it. So. So August 2024 not too long ago, it's funny, we were in a company meeting and are with everybody in there and the phones start blowing up. So Amanda, who works in her office, she steps outside, she answers a couple calls. So turns out that one of our recently hired project managers of like three weeks ago was in an altercation with a guy at a gas station. Now mind you, he's in that same meeting with us.
Stuart Ward [00:15:26]:
Not a physical altercation.
Andrew Ward [00:15:28]:
No, verbal. Verbal. But so he gets into this back and forth with this guy at a gas station. It becomes this racist fueled kind of verbal altercation. And so the guy that was involved in it filmed the whole thing. And so he had our new project manager with the company shirt, company truck right down the street. Phone number, Phone number, everything.
Jack Jostes [00:15:55]:
Phone number. And that's relevant to.
Andrew Ward [00:15:57]:
Yes, very relevant, yes. And I mean, within 30 minutes of this happening, it was all over Instagram, all over the Internet, phones are blowing up. We're getting threatened. Initially, the very first thing to start putting out the fire, we let him go immediately. That was number one. We took care of that initially, but I mean, it was a months long cleanup process.
Jack Jostes [00:16:22]:
And for the folks listening or watching, this person did make a legitimately racist comment to someone.
Stuart Ward [00:16:30]:
I’ll say what he said. I think it's fine for video. But he said: “you need to go back to your country.”
Jack Jostes [00:16:35]:
Right.
Stuart Ward [00:16:35]:
So I guess you could read that however you want. It is racist. But we don't know who he was talking to. You could hear the person who was recording him goading him on. “Say it again. Say it again.” You know, so. And I had heard at the time that the person recording him, this was kind of his thing.
Stuart Ward [00:16:52]:
He was a professional social media poster of events that were of note. And so it ended up hitting on. I know it now. It's called Georgia Followers. It was on, I think it might be an Instagram where people will film like straight racers going through Atlanta or just silly things.
Jack Jostes [00:17:13]:
Yeah.
17:14 – What It’s Like to Go Viral for the Wrong Reason
Stuart Ward [00:17:14]:
And as soon as it hit that, it was unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. So it was total crisis management. And keep in mind, this is all within 30 minutes. 30 minutes it was posted. Andrew fired the project manager. Phones were blowing up and we're like, oh my gosh.
Stuart Ward [00:17:33]:
And people were just leaving some very nasty calls. Our answering service called us and said, callers are abusing our receptionist. We cannot take any more calls. So we ended up having to put that on hold. And we, they helped us record kind of an apology statement, like, we're aware of the incident. This person has been terminated so all calls now rolled into that, but now we were getting zero-star Google reviews. They started hitting. This is where it becomes relevant to.
Stuart Ward [00:18:04]:
To Ramblin, because we called our project manager, Rebecca, and said we need to do something fast and probably within five or 10 minutes. She had a kind of our apology acknowledgement post put on our website. We linked it to Facebook. So we had everything kind of covered in the. But the calls just kept coming. And we were talking earlier about my appreciation for the power of social media. I'd always heard about viral videos, but until you lived one. It is unbelievable because we were getting calls literally from around the world, UK, Cayman Islands, all across the country.
Stuart Ward [00:18:41]:
And many people were like threatening us. And it peaked, it died down. It kind of simmered the phone calls. We thought it was over and then boom, it spiked again. And we probably had three or four spikes in there. And I was thinking the other day, how many calls did we get? And I bet it's 2,000 calls we got.
Jack Jostes [00:19:02]:
Over what period?
Stuart Ward [00:19:03]:
I'd say, yeah, you know, there was blocks in time, but probably six weeks. Yeah, maybe two. It would take about two weeks for it to peak and die, but probably two, three, two week periods.
Andrew Ward [00:19:15]:
We were getting, I would say 100 to 200 a day the first couple weeks.
Stuart Ward [00:19:20]:
Now, positives interspersed in those. We got a few positive calls from random people. There was one person out of San Diego who called, hey, I have a business. The way you are handling this is fantastic. We know people can be really nasty. They don't know the whole story, but the way you've done it, I couldn't have done any better. So we got a few positive ones like that, which kind of made our day. Most were negative, but the aftermath is the importance of being careful what you say.
Stuart Ward [00:19:55]:
Because we've all gotten into verbal arguments with people that can be taken the wrong way and if someone records, could be really bad. So just being careful and then talking to our team about it and making sure that they're, you know, when they're in a uniform, in a vehicle, they are representing the company and whatever they do, assume it is being filmed.
Jack Jostes [00:20:16]:
That reminds me, I mean, when I was a kid, I was maybe only 12, and I remember my dad telling me something. It was something to the effect of, you know, never put something in writing, in an email or a text or something to somebody that you wouldn't want to be published. And I think now with social media and phones and video and audio recording, it extends to that. I commend you guys for taking prompt action and firing that person and telling people like, hey, we're sorry and we fired this person and this isn't who we are. I mean, you guys basically. That's basically what.
Andrew Ward [00:20:53]:
And that was tough, you know, because here we have a newly hired guy. You know, you can only assume that they're a level headed person. You know, we've really only known him for a couple of weeks, you know, so it's hard, it's really hard to judge someone's true character until you really start to get to know them. And then this happens.
Stuart Ward [00:21:13]:
Under stress.
Andrew Ward [00:21:14]:
Yeah. And then this happens. And, you know, it's unfortunate that, you know, everyone that sees that assumes that that's the company's views or that's the company's beliefs and that everyone, you know, thinks the same, which is not true. You know, so it was challenging kind of dealing with that.
Stuart Ward [00:21:30]:
And he didn't even, even on his way out the door, he didn't get it. He didn't understand why it was such a big deal and why he was being terminated.
Jack Jostes [00:21:38]:
Really?
Andrew Ward [00:21:39]:
Yeah.
Stuart Ward [00:21:39]:
And he even called Andrew back a week later and Andrew said, you know much, you know, our answering service bill, it was like $3,000 that month because it went so far over our base, we couldn't shut it down. So it was a $3,000 answering service. So Andrew told him and said, you know, you just cost us 3,000. He goes, oh, hire me back. I'll bring that much new business in right away. He still didn't get it.
Jack Jostes [00:22:04]:
Really? He never apologized for it?
Andrew Ward [00:22:06]:
No, no, no.
Stuart Ward [00:22:08]:
What did he do?
Jack Jostes [00:22:09]:
That's unbelievable.
Andrew Ward [00:22:10]:
Yeah.
22:10 – How Buckhead Uses Core Values & EOS to Hire, Lead, and Build Culture
Jack Jostes [00:22:10]:
So, yeah, I mean, that brings up an interesting point. Is there any way in your recruiting that we could have assessed that? I can't think of anything.
Andrew Ward [00:22:20]:
It's very, I mean, it's so. It's so hard to say one way or the other. I mean, we've done, we've made, I would say, tremendous effort through our hiring process to be. To ask more questions, to dig into kind of who they really are.
Jack Jostes [00:22:35]:
Yeah.
Andrew Ward [00:22:36]:
You know, because we've, over the last couple of years, we've really focused on improving the company culture and growing the company culture with all of our existing employees, but also any of our new hires. So we ask questions to find out a little bit more about who they are and what they believe.
Stuart Ward [00:22:55]:
Do they align with who we are and where we want to be?
Jack Jostes [00:22:59]:
How would you describe the culture and maybe the values that you look for when you're recruiting? What are you looking for?
Andrew Ward [00:23:07]:
What we try to do. We have weekly meetings with our whole company, with all of our field staff, all of the management. And each week, what we try to do is we highlight one employee from the previous week that has done something that exemplifies. That exemplifies one of our core values, saying, thank you for doing this, and kind of showing the rest of the company, hey, this is who we are. This is what we want to be, where we're growing to. And we appreciate your effort for that. And I think having that consistent messaging to all of your employees goes a long way.
Stuart Ward [00:23:41]:
Yeah, we use. I think you may use it, the EOS.
Jack Jostes [00:23:45]:
Absolutely.
Stuart Ward [00:23:46]:
So we use the EOS system, and we use it in conjunction with the Bach team, and they kind of coach us through quarterly meetings. But with the EOS system, it's helped us define our core values, our mission statement, our niche. And honestly, when we began working with you, a lot of the groundwork that we needed to do was already done because we had already thought through, we had done the SWOT analysis. We already kind of knew who we were, where we wanted to go, and what we wanted to be. So that piece of it was done, and it really, really helped moving forward from that point with your team putting together the website and the message and the language and everything. So I think it works very well together.
Jack Jostes [00:24:33]:
You guys, like you said, you already had a lot of momentum. You already had some of that figured out, and our job is to ask you those questions and extract it out of you. And for some people, it's the first time they've thought of it. For some people, they're like, hey, we're already. We're already. We've already implemented eos and we already have. Here's our Vision Traction Organizer. So we meet people kind of where they're at, and ultimately the goal is to communicate who you are and what actually makes you different from the competitors.
Stuart Ward [00:24:59]:
Exactly.
Jack Jostes [00:25:00]:
Because every person listening, every landscape company does have something that makes them different from their competitors. A lot of times, communicating it is the hard part, and that's where we come in. And we don't know you very well, so we're just kind of curious and ask you questions and pull it out, get it on the website.
Stuart Ward [00:25:18]:
Yeah. And some of those conversations are difficult. Sometimes you have to do some soul searching, like, who. Who are we and what do we want to be again?
Andrew Ward [00:25:27]:
And you come up with something, and it's like, is that who we are or is that who we want to be? Are we really that?
Stuart Ward [00:25:34]:
And it can be both. It can be both. You can aspire to be something and that keeps the whole team working in a common direction.
Jack Jostes [00:25:41]:
So here's, here's the, like, hidden benefit of marketing that many people don't realize until well after they've hired us is that by committing to it in your marketing, it then can become a commitment in your company of like, hey, we created this brand promise that we're going to respond to emails within one business day, or what, Whatever it is, it's on the website and we are now measuring it. Oh, well, we better get that done. So that's how, that's how a lot of these things happen is sometimes it is something you aspire to and then you put it on the website and now you're committed to doing.
Andrew Ward [00:26:15]:
And then it's very real. It's very, very real.
Jack Jostes [00:26:18]:
And if it is real and it's true, then it actually stands out. But if we put on the website that you do X and you do Y and you do Z and then they talk to salesperson and they say something different and then the project manager does something else, that creates a very negative experience. But I think simply, if we do what we say we're going to do and then do it, people are generally pretty happy. And it's really simple in any business, in my business and your business, right?
Stuart Ward [00:26:47]:
Yeah, it is simple. And I think the EOS will do another little plug for EOS. But as you know, it forces you to stay on track and it holds the whole team accountable. And with weekly, you know, team meetings, level 10 meetings, you're always checking against your goals for the quarter and for the year. And it keeps everyone marching in the same direction, I think. I don't know how companies exist without.
Jack Jostes [00:27:10]:
It, honestly, because I remember mine was very chaotic without it. And I don't know if you are a visionary, who's the visionary of the company?
Stuart Ward [00:27:19]:
I'm the visionary, I think, by default.
Jack Jostes [00:27:20]:
Okay, so. So my experience with being visionary and not knowing that that was what was happening and not having EOS to work in was pretty chaotic because I would come up with a million ideas and I didn't necessarily have a way of getting them done. And what I like about EOS is like, okay, I need to think of the quarterly rocks, and I still think of things along the way that we need to do, but they can't be like a big rock, right? All of a sudden I've got to get the other one done. I also find that it helps me communicate with other team members who might come up with a big idea in the middle of the quarter. And hey, we'd love to revisit this idea. And we already have all these other resources committed to this rock and the right people get it and are like, I understand why you're telling me we can't do this right now. And I'm going to bring it up again when we're planning.
Stuart Ward [00:28:16]:
Right.
Jack Jostes [00:28:16]:
The.
Stuart Ward [00:28:17]:
And it's also important as you know, not to over commit to your rocks or your goals for the quarter or for the year. Because if you load up and suddenly.
Andrew Ward [00:28:26]:
You start failing, you've got a million great ideas to help the business.
Stuart Ward [00:28:30]:
You have to prioritize well.
Jack Jostes [00:28:32]:
And I mean the book talks about completing 80% of them being a win.
Stuart Ward [00:28:37]:
Right, right.
Jack Jostes [00:28:38]:
You know, so if you have more than seven.
Stuart Ward [00:28:39]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:28:40]:
Which I'm, that's where we, I think.
Andrew Ward [00:28:42]:
Seven, eight or nine. You know, we have. How many people do we have part of the leadership team? One, two, three. No, five. I think five now.
Stuart Ward [00:28:50]:
And time of year also is relevant.
Jack Jostes [00:28:52]:
Yeah. We have seasonality. That's basically the inverse of yours. So yours is typically like starting in March and like it's crazy. Ours is getting people ready for that. So October, like up to March is typically our. For certain departments. Now the people listening on my team who are in the project department are going to be, they're going to be slammed.
Jack Jostes [00:29:18]:
Jamie's here laughing because hey, you're here. What, what are you thinking?
Jamie DuBose [00:29:22]:
Yeah, no, I mean that's true.
Jack Jostes [00:29:26]:
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so I just want to, I, I can hear them thinking like, wait a second, Jack. I'm really busy during the summer. So certain departments like the, the people who are then busy building and developing the website, their seasonality is gonna be the opposite of the sales and marketing team. Right.
Jack Jostes [00:29:48]:
So like it's February right now. I'm on my fourth in person event this quarter. So during an eight week period and then I don't have anything until June. So my, I'm gonna look forward to.
Andrew Ward [00:30:01]:
I'm gonna let John and Steve Bach know that. Yeah, it'll be at their next event.
30:07 – The Succession Plan: Stepping Away With Confidence
Jack Jostes [00:30:07]:
Well, good. Yeah, so tell us a little bit. So we're here, we're, we're all here for Bach Business Partners. What do they do? What do you like about working with them?
Stuart Ward [00:30:14]:
We used to work with a company called Landopt which was very similar to the Bach Network. It was a group of 20 to 25 landscape companies. The goal and they did help us. There were some challenges, but they helped kind of professionalize our business, create roles for everybody. So a lot of the pieces to help a company run they helped us with because we were just kind of all over the place. And then Landopt went away, and then the Bach team formed their company. Very similar to the Land up, but we feel a lot better. But they have helped us grow.
Stuart Ward [00:30:53]:
And they've also helped Andrew as he begins to transition into an ownership role of the company and the current GM role. They've helped him kind of coach him along the way to where he can do what he needs to do, and I can slowly kind of back out of the picture.
Andrew Ward [00:31:09]:
That's the end goal is for him to be able to retire and be confident in the success, the continued success of the business, you know.
31:18 – Real Talk: Getting Removed From the Leadership Team
Stuart Ward [00:31:18]:
And I’m probably two-thirds of the way kind of out the door. I'm still around, and I come to things like this and probably help or hinder more than he would like me to, but I think it's. It's on track.
Andrew Ward [00:31:32]:
He has been removed from the leadership team.
Jack Jostes [00:31:35]:
Is that true?
Andrew Ward [00:31:36]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:31:37]:
Hey, guys, that’s. That's actually a big accomplishment.
Stuart Ward [00:31:42]:
By design.
Jack Jostes [00:31:42]:
Don't you think? Yeah, I mean, for the company, for you to not be on it by design. So was he removed or like? So I think we need to get clear on what happened here.
Andrew Ward [00:31:52]:
I asked him to not be part of it.
Jack Jostes [00:31:54]:
Wow.
Stuart Ward [00:31:55]:
It was more like, do you really need to be at these meetings? Is the way he spun it. And I was fine with it. Was like, hey, that's one less thing I have to do. Yeah.
Andrew Ward [00:32:03]:
I mean, I. I always appreciate his input and his advice and his vision for the company. And I think, you know, as we were having those meetings, I was starting to. I was starting to see more of his continued vision, you know, him kind of driving or steering the ship more than, you know, in a direction a little bit different than what I wanted. And, you know, I know as he kind of steps away, I'm, you know, I'm hopping behind the wheel and steering it in the direction that I want it to go. So, not that I don't want it to go in his direction, but I. I think I see the business a little bit differently than he did. Not in a good or bad way, but I just felt like, you know, it's time for him to kind of start stepping away, which is what he wants.
Andrew Ward [00:32:56]:
That's what I want for him as well.
Stuart Ward [00:32:58]:
Yeah. And I agree. And I think both of us being at some of those meetings Gave a little bit of a mixed message to the team. Like, hey, who's in charge here? You know, he was. He would be at the head of the table running the meeting, and I'd be the annoying guy to the side, interjecting and maybe overriding some of the things that he was trying to tell the team. So I get it, and I'm totally fine with it.
Jack Jostes [00:33:20]:
Well, Stuart, there have been phases in my company where I've been asked to leave certain meetings, and the first time it happened, it was kind of depressing. And my business coach warned me that, that, that. And I'm like, no, that would never happen. Like, this would be amazing that this meeting runs without me. But I was kind of like, oh, what do I do here? And it was kind of depressing. But now it's not. Now, I don't know. I was just curious, what was it? What did it feel like for you?
Stuart Ward [00:33:47]:
It felt. I was not hurt in any way. And I'm honest when I'm saying, hey, that's one less thing I have to go to each week. So that's where my head was at. You know, I was happy to go, but I was fine with not going.
Jack Jostes [00:34:01]:
Yeah.
Stuart Ward [00:34:01]:
And then the other part of me that I was proud of Andrew, that he had the level of comfort to ask me to not attend and not worry about what I was going to think. So, you know, because it's a. He's my son, but he also is essentially running the company. So, yeah, it's, you know, with all family companies, it's a strange dynamic. You know, I think of him as a son, but I also think of him as the GM, you know.
35:10 – Advice for Family-Owned Businesses
Jack Jostes [00:34:26]:
Well, so how has that. On the just dad and son side of things, like, what changed after that?
Andrew Ward [00:34:33]:
Nothing.
Stuart Ward [00:34:34]:
Nothing, really.
Jack Jostes [00:34:35]:
That's amazing.
Andrew Ward [00:34:35]:
I think we've always been very, very close. We do a lot of things together outside of work. Always have, and I feel like always will. And like he said, you know, there weren't really any hard feelings about it and it wasn't like a hey, I'm breaking up with you type of thing.
Stuart Ward [00:34:52]:
No, I didn't feel that at all. Now, I will say that after that, we have more phone calls where he might call me in the evening and we'll just talk stuff about the company. Sure. Just he and I like, hey, I interviewed this guy. This is what I'm thinking. And I'll give him my input.
Jack Jostes [00:35:10]:
Hey, dad, did you see what was posted on Instagram today?
Stuart Ward [00:35:13]:
No. I was in the office that day.
Jack Jostes [00:35:15]:
Hopefully nothing like that again, hopefully.
Stuart Ward [00:35:19]:
That’s kind of the way we work now is like I kind of pop into the office every now and then, but we have these more kind of deeper conversations on the phone about different things and where things might be going. And I'm more than happy to offer my advice.
Jack Jostes [00:35:33]:
Well, that's incredible. I'm curious, what advice would you have for probably the bulk of our audience who works with their dad or their son or their daughter or their daughter in law or son in law? I mean there's a lot of family businesses listening right now to, to keep that relationship, that family relationship intact and have this strong business working relationship.
Andrew Ward [00:35:56]:
I think there's got to be a lot of trust. I think that's the biggest thing. I think without having a strong respect and level of trust that if they're stepping aside or if they're not there, that they trust that the business is still going to run efficiently, incorrectly. So I think, I think if he wasn't comfortable with that or if he didn't trust my ability to do that, that would cause some issues.
Jack Jostes [00:36:25]:
Yeah.
Andrew Ward [00:36:25]:
And his whole thing is probably, you're going to say trust but verify, you know, which it is true.
Stuart Ward [00:36:33]:
And kind of an example of that is the answering service. And we'll talk about leads and things coming in. But I get on my phone a list of all the calls that have come in and the nature of the call and some of them are leads. And I'm always like, did somebody get that? Did somebody call them back? I don't know. We need to call, call, call, you know, and I'll say, hey, Andrew, did you see that call? Yes, I've already called, don't worry. Or Amanda's already called. It's already in the CRM. We're on it.
Stuart Ward [00:37:02]:
So that was actually one of my to from our annual EOS. Was he still.
Andrew Ward [00:37:06]:
He's not part of that, but he gets rocks still.
Jack Jostes [00:37:09]:
Oh, okay.
Stuart Ward [00:37:10]:
So now I have kind of a different approach to it. It's like, I'll say, I'll say, Andrew, I'm not going to ask you about that lead that came in.
Andrew Ward [00:37:18]:
That's him asking about it.
Stuart Ward [00:37:19]:
See if anyone's called. I just want you to know I'm not going to ask you.
Jack Jostes [00:37:23]:
So do you have a CRM where you could just look in and see that they were called?
Stuart Ward [00:37:26]:
I can, I can. And.
Jack Jostes [00:37:28]:
But you're not going to check it.
Stuart Ward [00:37:30]:
No, I do check.
Jack Jostes [00:37:31]:
You do check it, but you're not going to ask about it?
Stuart Ward [00:37:34]:
But we've had a couple in the last week. Like they're not in CRM. And it came in on the answering service yesterday. Did you get it? And we just had this conversation about an hour ago. Some, or somehow we think the answering services miss.
Jack Jostes [00:37:49]:
So you're kind of like a de facto silent sales manager.
Stuart Ward [00:37:53]:
That's exactly what I am.
Jack Jostes [00:37:54]:
I like it.
Andrew Ward [00:37:55]:
Yeah.
Stuart Ward [00:37:55]:
And honestly, the way I view it is we, we've made a big investment in marketing.
Jack Jostes [00:38:01]:
So every lead to me and sometimes the sales manager. Yeah, every lead is gold. And I'm, I'm, I want to talk to you in a year and look back at it myself.
Andrew Ward [00:38:10]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:38:10]:
And see, hey, good job, guys. You're calling people back. Yeah. Same day. And yeah, look at this revenue that we generated.
Stuart Ward [00:38:18]:
Someone's calling in with an opportunity and we don't call them back. Like, what did that cost us?
Jack Jostes [00:38:23]:
Right. You know, a lot of people, not.
Stuart Ward [00:38:25]:
Only in our reputation with that person, but what did it cost to get to that point? And now we didn't even call them. So that's, that's why I'm that way. We laugh about it, but it's important to me.
38:36 – Final Thoughts + Free Marketing Brainstorm!
Jack Jostes [00:38:36]:
Well, Stuart, Andrew, I really enjoyed having on the show. Unfortunately, we've got to go, We've got to, we've got to wrap up and go to the BBP event. So thank you so much for coming and sharing your story on The Landscaper's Guide.
Andrew Ward [00:38:49]:
Yeah, have fun.
Jack Jostes [00:38:51]:
I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. I really appreciate the relationship that they've built with each other in their business and their family life. They've got an incredible company and, you know, I love working with small businesses like this. That's what we do at Ramblin Jackson. So if you run a family-owned landscape company and you've been in business for over 10 years and it's time to reevaluate your city sales process and your marketing. Let's start with a simple 15-minute marketing brainstorm call. On this free phone call, we'll just talk with you about your business goals.
Jack Jostes [00:39:26]:
Who is your Hell Yes Customer? What marketing are you doing? And give you some ideas to get even more of those customers for this next phase of your business. So check out our show notes for a link to landscapersguide.com/brainstorm to book your 15-minute marketing brainstorm call today. My name is Jack Jostes, and I look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper’s Guide Podcast.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: www.landscapersguide.com/podcast
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📞 Book a FREE 15-Minute Marketing Brainstorm Call: www.landscapersguide.com/brainstorm
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