Landscape company owners and business people all over the country are talking about culture, how to create a culture. And in today's interview with Jim Martin, we share how he's grown beyond just success into significance through creating scholarships for the employees of his company. Check out today's interview to learn more about how he did that and the one thing Jim always carries with him when he goes whitewater rafting all over the world.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to The Landscaper's Guide. I'm Jack Jostes, and in this show, we share inspiring stories of successful landscape professionals and sales and marketing ideas with you to help you grow your business. And today, I'm excited to interview Jim Martin, who I met through ILCA, the Illinois Landscape Contractors Association.
Right now I'm in Illinois, in Jim's basement in Elmhurst. It's a beautiful home and I can't wait to share this story with you. Now, if you're new here and you haven't already, make sure you subscribe at landscapersguide.com/podcast and we will send you our top three podcast interviews right away. And with that, let's get into the conversation with Jim.
Welcome to The Landscapers Guide. Today, I'm here with Jim Martin, the founder and president of James Martin Associates. We're in his home right now. We're in his basement in the bar, which is just this cool space. For those of you listening, it is spectacular. It's like a wine cellar with a really neat wood ceiling. That's my favorite feature of this bar.
Jim Martin:
Old barn siding and old barn beams. You can see it was all mortised in, and reconstructed here.
Jack Jostes:
Well, Jim, thanks so much for coming on the show. We played Topgolf last night. How was that?
Jim Martin:
It was my first time playing Topgolf and my first time having a golf club in my hand in about... I think Tom Boles and I decided it was probably eight or 10 years.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, wow. Well, that was fun. Tom won. Tom had the best scores. He plays quite a bit.
Jim Martin:
He does.
Jack Jostes:
And one of the things I learned last night at Topgolf is that you have a scholarship program for your employees. So, I wanted to learn more about that and inspire our audience to consider doing something with their own team. So, tell us a little bit. First, what is James Martin and Associates?
What Is James Martin and Associates?
Jim Martin:
I used to say we're a landscape design build company, but I almost now say we're a snow management company that does landscape management and design build. Not quite correct. But those are the three main services that we do.
But I'm a landscape architect by training, graduate from the University of Illinois, and started off as a landscape architect. And then realized probably 10 years into running the business that recurring revenue is better for our business than just design build project after project. So today, the business is probably 75% recurring revenue and maybe 25% design build.
Jack Jostes:
And you have James Martin Associates in Mundelein, Illinois, and that's around that two-thirds of the business?
Jim Martin:
Correct.
Jack Jostes:
And then the other third is LID out in Longmont, Colorado?
Jim Martin:
Correct. Yeah. And we have probably 100 employees or so in the Mundelein location and plus or minus 50, 55 in the Longmont/Boulder/Boulder Valley market.
Jack Jostes:
And you've been in business for over 40 years. When did you actually start the firm?
Jim Martin:
We will be beginning our 46th year in March. So, 1977.
Four Stages Of Business
Jack Jostes:
That's spectacular. And right now, in your bar, there is a bottle of champagne from the Russo Family celebrating 40 years, that's spectacular. So, while we were getting lunch, you said there are four stages of business. The first one, survival, what are the other three?
Jim Martin:
So I described survival, survival with meaning, which I describe as well, you're not too worried about making this pay period, but you might not know where next pay period's coming from. So, that's survival with meaning. And then success is when you really don't have to worry too much about making payroll. So, I think that's the third stage.
And significance I think is the fourth stage. And that's when a business, when you look around and you look and you see that you have 150 families that are dependent upon you, and mortgages and kids going off to school, and 401(k) funds, and things like that, that make all of a sudden, it's not just success that you're dealing with. It has some significance in the lives of a lot of people.
Jack Jostes:
And one of the ways that you're building significance is by funding scholarships for the children of your employees?
Funding Scholarships
Jim Martin:
That's one of the types of scholarships, and that's what you and I talked about last night at Topgolf as a starting point. And I said after doing about 20 years of other scholarships, when we were getting ready to celebrate this 40th anniversary five, six years ago now, I had the idea that, "Well, let's give a scholarship to some of the kids of our employees."
And that has led over the last five years or six years to I think we've given out about 24, 25 during that period of time. And those are probably the most meaningful and significant in that these are the folks that we go to battle with all the time, and these are the kids of those folks. And now we're connecting with the kids and we're hearing their life story, and the process that we go through is very similar to what the ILCA, the Illinois Landscape Contractors Association does.
So, the students of our employees have to fill out essays, they have to get a teacher to write an endorsement letter. They have to, if they can get a referral letter from somebody that they've worked with, so those are the kinds of steps that we have in the process. And then to have them come in with the parents for our little photo episode. So we award them an oversized check, and then we do press releases around it, and it's just on a lot of levels, just one of those great evolutions to our scholarship program that started probably 20 or 25 years ago.
And over the years, we've given almost 100 scholarships, which is fun, very productive, and it's allowed us to connect with the schools that some of our employees have gone to, and it's allowed us to get connected with the National Association and the local state association. And then some of the schools that we have, we give scholarships to high school students from some of the schools that are in the communities that we've worked in.
Jack Jostes:
So this is very generous, that you're giving back to these people and to these communities, and I love how you're doing it in many cases, through your employees. I'm curious, has this come back to you in any way? Have clients ever said, "Hey, we noticed that you did this," or I can't imagine that's why you're doing it, but has that happened?
Jim Martin:
No, I would say we've been active in supportive community organizations and charitable organizations. So occasionally, we've had folks that have seen an announcement, especially if they might have aligned with maybe Valdemar's daughter, and Valdemar was one of the supervisors that they know and that has been visiting their site.
So there's been maybe a few of those connecting the dots, of somebody that read our periodic newsletter, Outdoor Customers, and if and his daughter were featured. We've had a few people make those kinds of connections. But I would say the scholarship, it's definitely a piece of our recruiting. So when we talk to new candidates and we say, "Five years from now, if you're here and you've contributed and done a great job, maybe you'll be one of those additional folks that we send the scholarship back to the school that you came from."
So it's definitely a piece of the recruiting, but I would say I don't think it's had a major impact on our customer base. We do other things in the community that I think we get much more of that kind of feedback on for some of the charitable things that we do there.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Well, it is an amazing recruiting piece for people, and knowing maybe potentially direct employees and then the kids of those employees, that's possible. So how do you decide? I mean, if you have 100, 150 employees with varying levels of families and ages and things, how many people apply for it in a given year?
Jim Martin:
So I would say this past year, we probably had maybe eight or nine applicants, and we awarded five. So there was a bit of a screening process and a couple of them just really didn't do what we required. So, we coached them afterwards, and it was a learning lesson for us in that anybody that expresses an interest in the future, we're going to have a little training session for the employee, the parent, so that they know what the process is.
And it can be a teamwork between parent and the student that would be potentially being awarded the scholarship. We hadn't done that before. Again, as you do these things, the light bulb comes on and you say, "Well, that's the next level of improving this and embedding it in, and making sure that you don't have any hard feelings along the way," because I guarantee you, the three that didn't get it, and we had one family where two children applied and one got it, one didn't.
Jack Jostes:
Oh.
Jim Martin:
But it's the real world. At any rate, five students got it. And one of them is going to the University of Chicago, she's studying neuroscience and wants to be a neuro physician.
Jack Jostes:
Wow.
Jim Martin:
So, those are the incredible kinds of stories that we get. I would've never known that, would've never known that about Valdemar's daughter if that wasn't a piece of it. And Valdemar's a stockholder. He's been with us probably 15, 18 years. But without the scholarship program, I would not have... It deepens the relationship that we have with these committed employees.
Four By 40
Jack Jostes:
I love it. And one of the other things I learned while we were playing golf, I think you said that at one point, you worked 40 fours. Is that right? So you worked 40 weeks with four-day work weeks, and then tell me more.
Jim Martin:
Yeah. So I used to be in a Vistage group. I was in a Vistage group for 20 years, and probably about 15 years ago, I started doing what I described in my Vistage Group as my goal for the year is four by 40. And they said, "What's four by 40?" And I said, "Well, I'm going to try and work four days a week. I'm going to try and work 40 weeks a year." So in Vistage, you would do an annual review.
So these guys are all busting on me and say, "Hey, Martin, how'd that four by 40 plan from last year work out?" Because in Vistage, there's an accountability factor of how you deal with the other Vistage members. So when it's your turn to present, you talk about what last year's plan was, this year's plan, how you did against it.
So, I got a lot of comments about that from my pals in the Vistage group, and I said, "Well, it worked out really well, and this year, I'm trying to do a three by 30." And it evolves. And I would say if you talk to most of my staff, they'd probably say, "Yeah, most of the time, Jim, for the last 10 years or so, has probably been more on that three by 30." So last night I said, and my goal today is to do a two by 20. So-
Jack Jostes:
Wow.
Jim Martin:
... two days a week, 20 weeks a year. Now, I'm probably not there yet, but I'm close.
Organization And Process Improvement
Jack Jostes:
That's spectacular. So, what would you say are some of the most important systems that you've implemented in your companies that allowed you to get there? And also how did you build your people up to support the company while you were gone or working in this more limited fashion?
Jim Martin:
Organization and process improvement and repeating the same... Learn, repeat, learn, repeat, learn, repeat, and better, improve it. I would say years ago, 2004, we had a pretty deep dive into what I'd call lean management. And that allowed us to improve a lot of things, standardize a lot of things.
And with the standardization at that point, we were still with Slice, which was an old enterprise software system that lots of folks in the industry had. I would compare it to today's version of Aspire. Now, Aspire is way more powerful and way more effective.
But five years, six years, seven, eight years ago, we were going off of Slice, that's when we went to Aspire. But having systems, processes, depending upon technology, I would say those are some of the key features. We have a lot of what I'll call performance management in place that allows us to reach agreements and set standards and set expectations.
And we create a performance plan for each of our salaried employees. I wouldn't say that about every hourly employee, but each salaried employee has a performance plan, and it's tied to a bonus plan. And our bonus plan is tied to our profitability, and we share that openly once a month throughout the business. So the performance of an individual, when it's tied to the performance of the company, you get alignment.
We've got the structure of a one-to-one meeting process with managers and teammates. And with those tools in place, it allows me to work within those tools with the team that I'm working with, and allows the team to work with their team. So, I tend to spend most of my time and effort with the strategy and the monthly financials and our monthly reviews with both locations. And then a fair amount with the recruiting. We bring more seasoned people, and I'm fairly involved with most of those hires.
Jack Jostes:
What are some of the things that are on the agenda of the weekly meetings? Because you said that you have these weekly meetings, they're structured, they're meaningful, they're helpful. What are some of the most important things that you'd have in a weekly meeting with a salaried employee?
Jim Martin:
So, if it was me meeting with Tom Boles or Scott, we have the major focuses of the business. So it could be a facility issue, it could be a marketing issue, it could be an HR issue, it could be a design build team issue, commercial maintenance issue, snow.
So we have a skeleton that's built out that has most of the expectations around each of those areas. So, that's almost a checklist. So, as Tom is getting ready for that meeting, he'll layer in any issues within each of those areas. And it winds up being a trigger for me. When we're scrolling down, when we're doing a Zoom meeting or a Teams meeting, he'll have his agenda up on the screen and we'll be going from the top of the agenda to the bottom of the agenda. He's filled it in.
I have a hanging file that I put anything that I want to be dealing with, open issues, any of the open issues, and they'll fit into that structure. And then if we've talked about something this week to follow up, we have an action plan that he has to... Any time we agree to do something, it lands in the action plan.
And we always start the next meeting with a review of the action plan. So those disciplines allow us to stay very focused, and make sure that we're accomplishing what we ought to be. So, those are some of the tools.
Whitewater Rafting
Jack Jostes:
And where are some of the coolest places that you've gone whitewater rafting, and tell us about your mug.
Jim Martin:
OARS is a whitewater rafting company that has taken the group that we've traveled with for 25 years down to Colorado. If you haven't done Colorado, you've got to do the Grand Canyon. It's an awesome trip. We did it for 14 days. Wait until mid-September when they shut down all the power boats, the power rafts, and then it's quiet down there. It's unbelievable, we spent 14 days doing that. One of the most interesting trips was about three years ago.
We went to Siberia before all the Ukraine stuff happened. And it was interesting to see that Siberian Russians absolutely hate Putin. So, it was interesting. And they were civilians. And we were civilians, and we were going on this whitewater river trip, and we met a lot of them. And just across the board, we were the first whitewater river trip to go back to Russia from the West, from a Western country since they invaded Crimea and took over Crimea.
So, Russia was our most recent international trip. Since then, when COVID hit, we did the Rogue River in Oregon, which is a beautiful river. Some of the films, some of the river films have been shot there. We did the Magpie up in Canada. We did the Futaleufu in Chile, the Yangtze, the Upper Yangtze in China.
And then on the other side of the Tibetan Plateau, coming down in the Upper Territories, they don't call them states in India, but everything that borders China and the Himalayas, we did a big river that is like the Mississippi in the United States, the Brahmaputra, and that was a huge river.
Jack Jostes:
What's one thing that you always carry with you on these trips?
Jim Martin:
Duct tape.
Jack Jostes:
Duct tape, for sure. I always bring duct tape on all my-
Jim Martin:
Roll of duct tape. Yeah, indispensable.
Jack Jostes:
Absolutely. I actually learned about that at a boater safety class when I was eight.
Jim Martin:
Really?
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. The instructor was like, "The one thing you always want to carry," and I do-
Jim Martin:
Is duct tape?
Jack Jostes:
I wrap my duct tape around a lighter. That's one of the ways I carry a small quantity of it in my pack. And you can use it for a bandage.
Jim Martin:
Absolutely.
Jack Jostes:
You can patch things. Duct tape is amazing, for sure.
Jim Martin:
Yeah. Lots of uses.
Jack Jostes:
I hope you enjoyed today's interview, and if you did, make sure that you subscribe, like this video where you are, give us some ratings, and sign up at landscapersguide.com/podcast to get on our email list, so you never miss an episode. And when you sign up, we're going to send you our top three podcasts and some more, so I'm Jack Jostes. Thanks so much for tuning in today. I look forward to talking to you next week on The Landscaper's Guide.