What would happen if you thought of your landscape company as a hospitality business instead of just a service business? Check out today's podcast to get some sales and marketing insights from Outdoor Living Mastery, a really cool new show that I just attended in Pennsylvania.
Hey everyone, Jack Jostes here. And right now I'm at an absolutely incredible showroom in Morgantown, Pennsylvania. I want to give you a tour, so check it out on YouTube. If you normally listen to the show, this one would be worth watching. I'm going to show you some photos and videos from this. I just finished speaking at Outdoor Living Mastery, which is this really cool conference. Check it out outdoorlivingmastery.com. And I want to introduce you to some of the people I met. And while I do that, I'd love to send you some beef jerky. So grab a landscape marketing toolbox at landscapersguide.com/toolbox. See our show notes for a link. And here's some of the people I got to meet while I was out here.
00:50 - Introduction to Joshua Gillow from Yes Express & Outdoor Living Mastery
Jack Jostes [00:00:50]:
All right, so we're here with Joshua Gillow from Yes Express. Josh, thanks for having me speak at this show.
01:14 - The Concept of Treating Landscaping as Hospitality
Joshua Gillow [00:01:14]:
Hey, thank you for coming all the way out here from Denver. This is amazing.
Jack Jostes [00:01:16]:
So I also got to see you speak today, which was cool because you've been on my podcast. I was on yours and know kind of followed your content. But I got to see you do your thing today. It was really cool. Tell us a little bit. You were talking about treating outdoor living and landscaping like hospitality.
Joshua Gillow [00:01:36]:
Yeah. So many people think of outdoor living or construction as just a service part of the service industries, and they're treated that way where you give the client a little bit and you hope for a lot back. Right. If we refocus our attention and see our industry completely different, like the hospitality industry, like, how can we serve our clients? How can we become the Ritz Carlton of experiences for our clients? It changes the game because so many in our industry fight for market share. They fight for two or three bid situations. If you want to get above that, the way you do it is by differentiating yourself with the detail you take in your client experience and knowing every little step and how you can improve that. Because with a higher client experience, your chance of converting that client into a long term client, and on top of that, into telling their friends about how amazing it was to work.
02:28 - Importance of Customer Experience in Landscaping
Joshua Gillow [00:02:28]:
Because if they just work with you and get a result, that's one thing.
But when they work with you, get a result that they love and feel something amazing along the way, that's what propels and motivates them to tell all their friends about it. It's so much a higher level and possibility for them to be able to refer you. And that's really what you guys are after.
Jack Jostes [00:02:42]:
Yeah. And in construction, there's a lot that can go wrong. There are a lot of things. Or having your yard ripped up for months at a time and then finding out that it was a month longer than whatever. Talk to me a little bit about some of the expectation setting that you recommend that you coach your clients on, that you do yourself with your own clients. Yeah.
03:04 - Setting Client Expectations and Delivering on Promises
Joshua Gillow [00:03:04]:
So first thing is the number one thing that we're doing is we're trying to create certainty in an uncertain world. That's what we're trying to do. Our sales process, our conversation, our client experience have to revolve around that. They want to spend X amount of dollars on a project and they don't want to have to deal with uncertainties. Things coming up change orders, things going wrong. They don't want to deal with that. We have to deal with that. We have to solve that problem.
Joshua Gillow [00:03:25]:
We can't bring it to them. So that's really what it's about. It's managing that when it comes to expectations then if you can set expectations to your clients and say the expectation is X and you deliver X or X, plus your client's going to be fine. If you consistently do that, you build trust every time. It's when you say you're going to deliver X and you deliver something subpar to X that you break that trust and you start bringing less and less value to your word.
Jack Jostes [00:03:50]:
And part of your presentation. And this is something that I definitely believe in and speak on myself is the little moments of even getting to the sale. So talk to me. I mean, you gave the example of saying, I'm going to get you a proposal next Thursday. Talk to me a little bit about that.
04:08 - The Big Impact of Meeting Small Commitments
Joshua Gillow [00:04:08]:
Yeah. So our clients are looking for us to be liars, right? Because they're trying to make a trust bond with us. And you can't just do that through rapport. You got to do it through actions. And those actions, the littlest actions, like saying you're going to get the proposal by Friday. To them, the client starts thinking, good, I'm going to go back to my life. And Friday, this little gift is coming. This little thing that I was promised is coming.
Joshua Gillow [00:04:30]:
And they wait for it. Believe it or not, they actually anticipate it. And when Friday comes and goes and your proposal doesn't show up, trust is bent. Trust is broken, and they're saying, okay, well, he or she said, I'll have it by Friday. They seem pretty sincere. And they didn't get it back. There was no call. There was no reasoning behind it.
Joshua Gillow [00:04:47]:
Hey, my dog died. I didn't have the chance. Something. They just feel like you don't care. And that's the dating phase of this relationship. And if you don't show up to the date on time, is your word worth anything? If you can't show up and you told them Friday, you said, Friday, I'll have this back to you. And Friday it didn't come. The client didn't say, have this to me by Friday.
05:06 - The Consequences of Missing Deadlines in Proposals
Joshua Gillow [00:05:06]:
And you said, okay, you told them that. So if you did that, and this is for a proposal, how much trust are they going to have with you when it comes to $100,000 on the line?
Jack Jostes [00:05:16]:
Yeah, right. Those little things create a big impact, and I think they contribute to the reason why people then feel compelled to get bid two and bid three. And if you nail it out of the gate, they might still do that. But if you were the one of the three who did those little things on time, you're going to be more likely to close the sale and start the relationship.
Joshua Gillow [00:05:41]:
100%. It's happened to me in the real world where I bought something or went to buy something, got a couple of proposals for it, and they said, yeah, by Friday, I'll have this to you. Same scenario. Friday came and went. I'm like, well, that one's out. The other one said, the next week came and went, wasn't there. The last person I worked with, I hired them. They cost more money, but they said it'd have it by Friday. At 05:00 they even gave me a time, and by 4: 50, I had it.
06:02 - Building Trust through Certainty and Communication
Joshua Gillow [00:06:02]:
And I said, okay, I trust these people because they actually said something and did it. And then next time they said, we would have it by Tuesday, we'd have the next step, and by Tuesday it was done. And every single time has been the same. So certainty. In an uncertain world, people aren't going to spend $100,000 or more on a project, even $50,000, if there isn't some certainty in the relationship. And if they can't trust your word up front, they're not going to trust it later. That's simple.
Jack Jostes [00:06:25]:
Yeah, I agree. So we're at Outdoor Living Mastery. Is it outdoorlivingmastery.com?
Joshua Gillow [00:06:31]:
It is.
06:31 - Future Plans for Outdoor Living Mastery
Jack Jostes [00:06:31]:
Okay, cool. I'm glad that you have that. And people, you should check it out. It's a show worth attending. Are you going to do it next year?
Joshua Gillow [00:06:37]:
Yes, we are.
Joshua Gillow [00:06:38]:
We already have the venue pick too.
Jack Jostes [00:06:39]:
Have you announced it?
Joshua Gillow [00:06:40]:
We haven't announced it yet. We were looking to announce it tomorrow.
Jack Jostes [00:06:44]:
So you got to follow. You also have an Instagram handle for that too. We'll put a link to that. So what is Yes Express? So you've got your Outdoor Living company, you've got this conference, and then there's Yes Express. You have a podcast. But what does Yes Express actually do?
07:01 - Overview of Yes Express and Its Mission
Joshua Gillow [00:07:01]:
So what we do is help people in our industry, landscapers, hardscapers, outdoor living professionals, learn how to communicate and sell better. That's what we do. It's all about communication, right? If you can't communicate with people, you're not going to be able to help them buy the solution that they need. It's that simple. In our industry, communication is typically something that is not forefront of the mind. It's more about how do you become a really great builder of stuff. But if you can't communicate with a client, ask them the right questions in the right order to really compel them to tell you what they truly need. You can't be the best resource for that client.
Joshua Gillow [00:07:32]:
You just can't. And then the other person who asks the better questions gets the work and they're probably going to cost more. And then you wonder why you keep losing to that person. So I started Yes Express because I struggle with communication. I've been in this industry now almost 30 years. My 1st 15 were horrible because I could not communicate. I was afraid to talk about budget, I was afraid of confrontation. I just was a pleaser all the time.
Joshua Gillow [00:07:54]:
I gave clients whatever they wanted. I'd do my Saturdays, evenings, Sundays, it didn't matter. I gave it all to them. And at the end I feel hollow. And I wasn't growing. Inside I was slowly dying. And I said, you know what? It's enough of this. So I started on a mission.
08:07 - Joshua Gillow's Journey and Learning Process
Joshua Gillow [00:08:07]:
I started hiring, started reading books. I started hiring mentors and coaches. And I started realizing the problem wasn't the world like I thought. It was clients that can't afford it. Unrealistic expectations. It was me. I didn't know how to communicate. I was scared to communicate correctly or efficiently.
Joshua Gillow [00:08:24]:
So I went on a quest to learn how to do that. And through tons of seminars and tons of deep work and sales coaches and business coaches and life coaches, I'm finally to a point where I'm like, you know what, I know how to do this now. And I don't want to see other brothers and sisters in our industry suffer from this and go out to see ten projects and only get three. They should be getting seven, eight, nine of those things. And the only difference between the three and the seven, eight or nine is learning how to do it. And if you can learn to ride a bike, you can learn how to do this, too.
Jack Jostes [00:08:54]:
What were some of the most impactful books or coaches or audio programs or things that you invested in that shaped how you're approaching communication now?
09:04 - Influential Books and Coaches on Communication
Joshua Gillow [00:09:04]:
So Chris Voss has a book. It's called Never Split the Difference. It talks about negotiations, some basics in there that are really fundamental. Right. Some things, some principles that I still use every day. That's a really great book. Tony Robbins, I've been part of his organization for years now, and he helped really open up my soul and open up my mind. But going there, spending four days, 16 hour days, going till you're absolutely destroyed to learn what's truly inside of you.
Joshua Gillow [00:09:28]:
And there's just tons of other men's events and things like that that has helped along the way. Seminars, getting uncomfortable going and doing things that really scare you, doing ice baths, doing those kinds of things that are just pissing you off. Right. Challenging yourself because there's so much more you're capable of.
Jack Jostes [00:09:44]:
Did you go on the ice bath at the show?
Joshua Gillow [00:09:46]:
They didn't set it up.
Jack Jostes [00:09:47]:
Oh, they didn't set it up yet. Me too. That's awesome. So where can we connect with you and learn more?
09:54 - How to Connect with Joshua Gillow and Yes Express
Joshua Gillow [00:09:54]:
Your best bet is to go to the website https://www.yes.express And that's all the information's there. You can also connect on Instagram, which is, @iamjoshuagillow, or you can even go onto Facebook. We have a free Facebook group. It's called Sales Made Simple for Landscapers, Hardscapers, and Outdoor Living.
Jack Jostes [00:10:09]:
Awesome. Cool. Well, Joshua, thanks for having me and thanks for coming on the podcast. It's been a pleasure.
Joshua Gillow [00:10:14]:
Thank you, Jack. It's been a pleasure.
10:16 - Introduction to Mike Carey and Marmiro Stones
Jack Jostes [00:10:16]:
So I'm here with Mike Carey and we're upstairs at this showroom. This is so cool.
Mike Carey [00:10:21]:
It's incredible.
Jack Jostes [00:10:22]:
This is cool. So you're a sales and service support member at Marmiro Stones and you sponsored the event today.
10:32 - The Unique Selling Proposition of Marmiro Stones
Mike Carey [00:10:32]:
Yeah, we were the top sponsor. We're super, super pumped. Souders is a big distributor of ours. We wanted to give full support to the contracting community and to Souders. So we're super happy to be here.
Jack Jostes [00:10:43]:
Well, I'm super happy to be here speaking today. So thank you for sponsoring this event and wanted to share with our audience. So you're a stone manufacturer, and there are a lot of stone manufacturers out there. Tell us a little bit about your company and then how far is your service area?
Mike Carey [00:11:01]:
Yeah, that's a great question. Glad you brought that up. So we are the quarry owners and factory owners over in Turkey. Right now we have seven quarries over in Turkey. We have full control of extraction of the block all the way to the job site, unless we go through a distributor. Right. So that a lot of times we sell through distribution as well. But the nice thing about what we do, how we differentiate, not only do we do custom fabrication here in the US, but we also have mobile showrooms.
Mike Carey [00:11:30]:
And our mobile showrooms, they vary all the way from Savannah, Georgia, up to Connecticut, as far west as Ohio or Tennessee.
Jack Jostes [00:11:38]:
And so this mobile showroom, what does that mean? So let's pretend that I'm a homeowner and I'm in the middle of an outdoor living project, and we're getting to material selection. How does the Marmiro stone experience pan out? What would that look like?
11:56 - The Advantages of Natural Stone over Manufactured Stone
Mike Carey [00:11:56]:
So there's a million products out there, from manufacturer products to natural stone, to synthetic products. So decisions can be overwhelming. So the nice thing about what we do is we bring the showroom full of stone that we manufacture right to the job site. So instead of bringing 20/30 samples out to a customer, or ten different catalogs from ten different suppliers, you're able to team up with a good supplier and manufacturer like us. And then as soon as you walk into that showroom, trailer or a Mercedes sprinter van, you're going to walk into that and choose your product from flat work to veneer work, to coping, to stair treads, to different unique contemporary textures or traditional textures. One stone that we offer a marble or a travertine, you can get six different looks from it. So you can really design a whole project while you're in the trailer right in your home.
12:49 - The Service Area and Expansion Plans of Marmiro Stones
Jack Jostes [00:12:49]:
So what are some of the benefits of manufactured stone over natural stone?
Mike Carey [00:12:54]:
Well, it's pretty simple. Manufactured stone, especially on a veneer, it's going to fade over time. And the cost difference between a manufactured stone veneer versus a natural stone veneer is timeless. No matter if you. Anything that's manufactured is always something versus natural. Natural is always going to give you that timeless look.
Jack Jostes [00:13:16]:
So for people who are listening, is it primarily on the east coast currently?
Mike Carey [00:13:22]:
Yeah, primarily on the east coast. We are looking at further expansion. So we do ship our products nationwide. However, some of our service capabilities as far as these mobile showrooms and templating services that we offer don't really go nationwide, but we do have internal designers and CAD designers that if you send us plans, we can design to any plan that you want.
Jack Jostes [00:13:47]:
Cool. Well, so where can we learn more?
13:49 - Introduction to Phil Bahler from Pave Tool Innovators
Mike Carey [00:13:49]:
Go to marmiro.com. Follow us on social media. We're big on Facebook, we're big on Instagram. So a couple of us are also on LinkedIn. So feel free to look at our blogs and go to our website.
Jack Jostes [00:14:02]:
Well, Mike Carey, I'll put your info in the show notes. People check them out. And check out Marmiro Stones. Is it marmiro.com.
Mike Carey [00:14:10]:
It's marmiro.com.
Jack Jostes [00:14:11]:
Okay.
Jack Jostes [00:14:12]:
Just marmiro.com? Yeah.
Mike Carey [00:14:13]:
Super simple.
Mike Carey [00:14:14]:
All right.
Jack Jostes [00:14:14]:
So we're here with Phil Bahler from Pave Tool. Pave Tool is one of the partners in Outdoor Living Mastery. Thank you for doing this. This has been such a cool experience.
14:25 - Pave Tool's Role in Outdoor Living Mastery and Their Mission
Phil Bahler [00:14:25]:
It's really my pleasure. It's been a dream of mine to have us a Pave Tool School. Try to train contractors latest and greatest type of installation practices. And really my greatest goal is to alleviate pain in our industry. Our industry has tremendous amount of pain, so it's really not that hard to do. But we invent tools to help contractors get products from pallet to payment with ease. And really to give contractors quality of life after work. That's really my goal. Obviously, we've had our school all week.
Phil Bahler [00:14:54]:
What a great week we've had. With a tremendous amount of contractors, about 50 contractors from all over the country and taking contractors to a whole new level. So super exciting.
Jack Jostes [00:15:04]:
So what did you guys build this week?
15:07 - The Unique Construction Project for Sheds Unlimited Showroom
Phil Bahler [00:15:07]:
So this week, basically we worked for a company called Sheds Unlimited. We were looking for a spot that we could build something that would actually stay. Last year we did it and it had to all be taken out. We thought that was kind of fruitless. So trying to find something we could have a way and means to be able to keep it, and it could be profitable and helpful for somebody. So it just so happened it worked out with Sheds Unlimited to be able to build their showroom for him. And he does elegant sheds and barns and outdoor living spaces and just worked out really good. So over 9000 pavers, just horizontal, never mind the verticals, but tremendous amount of products being laid in the ground.
Phil Bahler [00:15:44]:
And again, teaching those processes of the most efficient ways, the most beneficial ways to ease the pain in our industry.
Jack Jostes [00:15:52]:
And so you all got a lot done and you only started like four days ago, is that right?
Phil Bahler [00:15:58]:
So that's correct. We're on our fourth day today and even Monday, we only started about noontime because we had classes all morning with the entire group trying to prep, go through the entire project and whatnot. So there's about 20 to 25 classes indoors that we do with the training, and then you could actually come down on the floor and be able to apply what you've learned. So it's really beneficial. You can get the technical side of it through the learning, and then you can get the physical side with the hands on down on the floor and be able to really put those new talents to use.
Jack Jostes [00:16:32]:
But this is also kind of a high stakes thing for Sheds Unlimited because this is their actual showroom and they're going to keep using it, right?
Phil Bahler [00:16:39]:
Oh, absolutely.
16:40 - Planning and Execution of the Showroom Project
Jack Jostes [00:16:40]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:16:40]:
So when did the planning tell me leading up to now, how much planning and preparation went into designing the showroom, ordering materials? When did that start?
Phil Bahler [00:16:52]:
So that's interesting question, because once we finished up last year, I think we took maybe a few weeks off, and then we got together again. We kind of set a goal and a focus of what we needed to do for the upcoming event. We kind of dissected, did we like what happened, what took place? What can we do different? Then we started looking for a venue that could host us to be able to keep that going. So we were fortunate to find this spot. But every week we'd meet, there's a crew, about five or ten of us, that meet, and we were able to get all of us together and weekly and be able to meet, talk about the project, and start doing all that planning. We brought, I added up almost $900,000 worth of tools we brought from Connecticut, shipped it. About $900,000 worth of equipment and tools.
Jack Jostes [00:17:35]:
Wow.
Phil Bahler [00:17:35]:
So a bunch of excavators, loaders, paver laying equipment. So that came from up in Connecticut. We also brought down two of our big enclosed trailers. So one full tractor trailer load and two large enclosed trailers.
Jack Jostes [00:17:49]:
That's incredible.
Jack Jostes [00:17:50]:
Yeah, so this was one of the cooler shows that I've been to in the green industry. Like, even Hardscape North America, everything, like you said, gets taken down at the end of it. But that's kind of a neat thing that they'll get to continue using this. So for people listening or watching who haven't heard of Pave Tool, what is Pave Tool? And maybe if we can't make it to this event, probably in Pennsylvania again next year, can we buy from you online? How do we learn more?
18:17 - Overview of Pave Tool and How to Learn More
Phil Bahler [00:18:17]:
Absolutely. So, Pave Tool, like I said, we've developed over 80 products for the hardscape industry that we've invented. Love what we do. And you can go to PaveTool.com, also go to our YouTube channels. What I was saying.
Jack Jostes [00:18:28]:
Yeah. And you guys have published over 500 videos.
Phil Bahler [00:18:31]:
About 500 to 535 videos we have to date. I do a tip of the week every Friday. Either myself or one of my sons will do it. But yeah, absolutely love the industry. And at this point, it's more for me for a give back and trying to help contractors because they call it hardscape of reason. It's hard work.
Jack Jostes [00:18:48]:
Well, I really appreciate what you're doing. And I was telling somebody that this is one of my favorite things about this industry is just the generosity of ideas and training and people teaching and wanting to help people. It's unusual. I don't really see it in other industries like I do here.
Phil Bahler [00:19:05]:
Yeah, I would say it is amazing. And even the three groups that came together with the Yes Express, Joshua Gillow, the Souders and Pave Tool crew, and also Baylor brothers, my hardscape company I started, and my nephew Josh, my brother Tom here, they also a huge support, too, and very heavily involved. But we couldn't do it without this group together. To do it alone, I think would be impossible to take it to this magnitude. But with the amount of people that we have working together, it's just amazing.
Jack Jostes [00:19:33]:
Yeah, it's really cool. Thanks for having me speak here. It was fun.
Phil Bahler [00:19:37]:
It's a pleasure to have you.
Jack Jostes [00:19:38]:
All right, everyone, thanks for checking out today's episode. Thanks again to Joshua Gillow and the Outdoor Living Mastery, the other partners of the event. I had a blast speaking at this show. You should come to this next year. So check it out at outdoorlivingmastery.com. So cool. All the construction that went on here, the in person showroom that we went to, the networking, the food, everything was really neat. So check it out.
Jack Jostes [00:20:05]:
My name is Jack Jostes, and thanks so much for listening to The Landscaper's Guide podcast. I look forward to talking with you next week.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: https://landscapersguide.com/podcast/
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: https://landscapersguide.com/toolbox
Check out Outdoor Living Mastery: http://outdoorlivingmastery.com
Check out Yes Express: http://yes.express
Follow Joshua Gillow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamjoshuagillow/
Join Joshua’s Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/yesexpress
Check out Marmiro Stone: http://marmiro.com
Follow Marmiro Stones on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marmirostones/
Check out Pave Tool Innovators: https://pavetool.com/
Subscribe to Pave Tool’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PaverToolInnovators