00:00 – ADHD in landscaping: stigma or strength?
00:00
Jack Jostes
You posted something about ADHD. I was hosting one of my masterminds recently, and somebody was like, oh, I have ADHD. And they were real embarrassed about it. And then another guy's like, well, I do too. I'm like, hey, it's a gift.
00:11
Kristen Kiely
In some ways, I think that there is such a stigma around having ADD, ADHD, neurodivergence, but it is absolutely a superpower and a gift.
00:24 – Live at SIMA with LeanScaper’s Kristen Kiely
00:24
Jack Jostes
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide Podcast. Right now, I'm out front of the LeanScaper Airstream at the SIMA Symposium with Kristen. We're drinking coffee. Kristen, welcome to the show. Tell us a little bit about what is LeanScaper and what do you do there?
00:40
Kristen Kiely
Yeah, thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here. So my name is Kristen Kiely. I'm the Chief Customer Experience Officer here at LeanScaper. So LeanScaper is an operating system for the landscape industry. I started with LeanScaper in February of this year. Before that, I was working at the Grounds guys. So landscaping franchisor based out of Waco, Texas. Dial it back even further. I was working at LMN with Mark Bradley and Mike Liescki. I was there from 2016 to 2022. Lots of experience in the landscape industry. My husband in Toronto, Ontario, owns a landscaping business. They do about $5 million, mostly design, build, install, and then snow in the winter. So for me, obviously, lives, eat and breathe landscaping. I love this industry.
01:25
Kristen Kiely
I think I have a passion for helping landscape businesses become more efficient, more profitable, because I see it's at home every day. I just really want the industry to prosper. I think it's really important that landscape companies are efficient and that they're dialed into their financials. And at LeanScaper, that's what we do every day.
01:48 – ADHD in landscaping business owners
01:48
Jack Jostes
That's awesome. So we got connected on Instagram somehow. I started following you, and you posted something about ADHD and I commented, and then we kind of had a continued comment going on ADHD. And then when we. When I learned you're coming to the show, I was like, hey, do you want to come talk about it? I was hosting one of my masterminds recently, and somebody was like, oh, I have ADHD. And they were real embarrassed about it. And then another guy's like, well, I do too. And I'm like, hey, you probably all do. And it's a gift in some ways. And I was 6, I think I was diagnosed. This was in the 90s, and I was diagnosed with ADD, which has. There's A lot of research. Everything has evolved since then into ADHD.
02:29
Jack Jostes
So I never was officially diagnosed with it, but I'm gonna guess that if they said I had add, probably have it.
02:37
Kristen Kiely
Yep, absolutely. It's really interesting, actually, because for me, growing up as a kid, I wasn't diagnosed. I didn't get diagnosed until I was 35. So during the assessment process, while I was trying to seek out the answers, they were asking me a lot of questions about, hey, what were you like as a kid? Were you disruptive in class? What were your report cards like? And imagine calling your mom at 35 and saying, I need to see all my report cards because I'm getting assessed for ADHD. And she's like, what do you mean you weren't disruptive in school? And they say that it really does show up differently in males and females.
03:14 – How ADHD shows up differently in women vs. men
03:14
Jack Jostes
I've read that. So women are more hypoactive, which is where they go down, like, over focused one thing. Is that.
03:23
Kristen Kiely
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
03:24
Jack Jostes
So was that your experience with it?
03:25
Kristen Kiely
That was my experience. And when I was a kid, I was just so focused on doing the right thing in class and having my teachers like me and getting good grades. And I get what you're saying when you say that. It's a gift, because I do think it helped me through school, even if I was masking or unaware of what it was that was happening.
03:45
Jack Jostes
I read a book. I think it's called Rainbow Brain.
03:48
Kristen Kiely
Interesting.
03:49
Jack Jostes
And it's a kid's book. It's a picture book about neurodivergence, and it has ADHD and dyslexia. And then I read a book about dyslexia, and it listed landscape designers as people who are very likely to have dyslexia.
04:03
Kristen Kiely
Interesting.
04:04
Jack Jostes
And I recently hired a landscape company to do some work at my house. And I live in Colorado on the side of a mountain. And so it's the alley, like, my house, like, leading up to the alley. There's one slope going up, and then there's this significant slope going down. So it's a very rocky. Physically rocky and uneven, and drainage is a big issue, and there's all these different slopes and things going on. And the. One of the landscape crew was there who was helping me figure out this patio that were designing. And he could just see the space in a way that I couldn't. He's like, oh, yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna level this here, and we're gonna build this up here. I'm like, how do you See that?
04:47
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
04:48
Jack Jostes
And he's like, oh, I'm neurodivergent. He was like, embarrassed. I'm like, no, like, look, you figured it out in like one minute. You just came in here and saw what we need to do. And I never would have seen that. I wouldn't have thought of this solution that you thought of.
05:04 – Neurodivergence as a gift and leadership skill
05:04
Kristen Kiely
The creative solution thing is really apparent. Right. And it's so funny, there's a team member at LeanScaper on our brand team who is also, he has ADHD as well. And it truly is a gift. And I think that's probably one of the ways that he taps into his creativity and he's doing amazing things. Right. And I totally agree with you. I think that there is such a stigma around having add, ADHD, neurodivergence, but it is absolutely a superpower and a gift.
05:35
Jack Jostes
I was very disruptive in school, so I was getting called out of class and I was very disruptive. And then the office would call me down, they'd say, john justice to the office for your medication. And one, I go by Jack. And two, John is only like police officers or like, you know, you're in trouble. The nurse, yeah, the authority is going to call. Lawyers are going to call me John. Right. So John was being called to the office for his medication because. And then meanwhile, yeah, I was just very disruptive. So that was my experience with it. And then I had a first grade teacher though who was like, hey, look, you could choose to be a positively leader or a negative leader. She was like, hey, you have leadership skills and right now you're choosing to be a negative leader.
06:24
Jack Jostes
Do you know what that means? And I'm like, no. I was like six. I'm like, what does that mean? But that stuck with me. And then later on I was like, oh, I suppose I, I, I could choose. Instead of like getting all the boys to come, you know, smash something or whatever, I would get them to do, to like to do something positive. But, but anyway, so it was a negative connotation. And then when I read that book, Rainbow Brain, it talked about the gifts that come with it and how, and then I read that dyslexia book and how dyslexic people, a lot of designers are dyslexic, but they're able to see the physical space and like envision and imagine things.
07:06
Kristen Kiely
They see things differently. Right.
07:09
Jack Jostes
So how is it a gift for you?
07:10
Kristen Kiely
So for me, I do think that I, over the years after being diagnosed, I think That I was able to kind of shift my mindset for the longest time. I was like, why is my brain so foggy? Why do I get distracted? Why am I always thinking of five different things at the same time? And then I was assessed and I was diagnosed and I was like, all right, I have two options at this point, right? The, the medication option, or I can try therapy, I can try cognitive behavioral therapy, I can try nutrition, I can try exercise. And I did. I went down that path instead. And I kind of gave myself six months. And I said, we're gonna see if this can work for six months.
07:52
Kristen Kiely
And if I can't change the way I'm thinking and how I'm performing at work, then we'll try medication instead. Bed. And now it's been two years.
08:02
Jack Jostes
Oh, okay.
08:03
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
08:03
Jack Jostes
Well, that's amazing. Okay, so. And nothing. If medicine is the right answer for the people listening. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.
08:11
Kristen Kiely
My gosh.
08:11
Jack Jostes
Now. And I had a similar experience though, where I was very medicated. And so one, there was the stigma of come down to the office for your medication. And then two, I just didn't like the way the drugs made me feel.
08:23
Kristen Kiely
Right.
08:23
Jack Jostes
And I tried a variety of things from red Ritalin to. I don't remember what it was called. It was a time released thing where you take one and it like releases slowly over. And I just, I was 16 when I was like, mom, I don't, I don't want to take medicine for this anymore. And were just talking and I was like, hey, I gotta write that down. And you're like, oh, I'm gonna send it to you. I'm like, yes, but I need to write it down.
08:48
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
08:49
Jack Jostes
So that's. I learned that for me, the way to do deal with it is to write stuff down. So I take notes and that helps me, like, because meanwhile my mind might be. For me, I think of like having a wizard. If you could imagine me as a wizard. Yeah, there's a wizard in my mind. Yes, you should. And he's like, haha. He's like, why don't. What do you think of this idea? And sometimes it's like imagining some whole like, marketing funnel.
09:13
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
09:13 – Calendaring and focus tools for leaders
09:13
Jack Jostes
For me, I'll be like meeting with somebody and I'll imagine a whole email sequence and like scripts. And sometimes that comes to me while I really should not be thinking about it.
09:25
Kristen Kiely
Right.
09:25
Jack Jostes
And so that's why writing it down is partly like, okay, I am listening.
09:28
Kristen Kiely
Focused on the task.
09:30
Jack Jostes
I'm looking at the words that I'm writing down. And that's kind of became my deal. And then obsessively. Calendaring.
09:36
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
09:37
Jack Jostes
And we emailed about calendaring. So tell me about the calendaring. Yeah, that works for you.
09:42
Kristen Kiely
Yeah, absolutely. So. So this started when I was at the grounds, guys. That's when I was diagnosed. And for me, I was like, I know that I'm going to get into the exercise. I know that I'm going to start going to therapy, but there's got to be something through my workday to keep me on track. And obviously you're in an executive position. You're on a lot of meetings. Right. So in some ways, I didn't have control over my day, so I decided that it was time to take control. So I started putting blocks in my calendar. Like, this is a focus time. Nobody can book me during this time because I know at what point throughout the day I'm going to be most creative or I know when I'm going to be most focused. Usually it's when the caffeine kicks in.
10:24 – Caffeine, coffee, and finding balance
10:24
Jack Jostes
So, yeah, I wanted to talk about caffeine and nutrition.
10:27
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
10:28
Jack Jostes
Because we're drinking a cappuccino. Hey, look at this. It's branded LeanScaper. You guys have a little, like, barista bar. We do, so. So that's pretty cool. And for me, the right amount of caffeine helps me focus. So there's this balancing act, though, of, like, there was a period where I would drink over a pot a day, and then the acid from the coffee bothered my digestion.
10:51
Kristen Kiely
No doubt.
10:52
Jack Jostes
So then I switched to mushroom coffee, and were messaging on Instagram.
10:56
Kristen Kiely
We were talking about mushrooms.
10:57
Jack Jostes
So anyways, mushroom coffee is what I normally drink, but when I'm on the road, I have. I have coffee and, like, wow, it's fantastic. Caffeine. Is it?
11:06
Kristen Kiely
It's one of those things. Right. I think if you can figure out what line you have, like you said, right. If you have the right amount of caffeine, it's okay. But if I have too much, then I'm like, frantic. Right. I get into those mindsets where I can't focus specifically one thing.
11:23
Jack Jostes
Yeah, well, yeah, it's the right amount. And I'm remembering there was this Andrew Huberman podcast on ADHD. It's like three and a half, one of them. He has several of them that are like three hours long.
11:33
Kristen Kiely
Okay.
11:33
Jack Jostes
And I'm like, how am I going to focus on this? So I had to, like, take notes and, like, do chunks of it. But One of them was about caffeine and tobacco and nicotine and specifically why Many people with ADHD, that. And for me, I smoked cigarettes for a long time.
11:50
Kristen Kiely
Me too.
11:51
Jack Jostes
Did you quit?
11:52
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
11:52
Jack Jostes
Good.
11:53
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
11:53
Jack Jostes
Sorry to put you on the spot. No, you're totally fine. You don't smell like cigarettes. So that's. I.
11:58
Kristen Kiely
Thank you.
11:59
Jack Jostes
You know, that's good. I used to smoke so many cigarettes and I would drink like a pot of coffee. And I don't necessarily regret it. I mean, it was awesome. But then it became like a pack and a half a day thing. And now I. I have. I haven't had a cigarette in, I think 12 years or something. But. But many people I know you see them with Mountain Dew and cigarettes and there's just like, maybe you're kind of like self medicating for ADHD.
12:27
Kristen Kiely
I was going to say the exact same thing. And it's funny because my first therapist, when I first started going to her, were talking about ways that I could help self regulate. Right. And the one thing that she told me was to work on my exhale. So when I get into one of those moments where I'm like, I am really dysregulated right now, really focusing on my breathing and the exercise, exhale specifically helps to kind of bring me back in. And I had this moment of clarity where I was like, wait a minute, I used to be a smoker. And I did find that in those moments when I was smoking, when I was exhaling, I did find that I was calmer or I was more focused in on whatever I was doing other than smoking.
13:07
Jack Jostes
Yeah. And it's just, well, that's good that you can do it without the smoke.
13:11
Kristen Kiely
I know. Yeah.
13:11 – Nutrition, protein, and mental clarity
13:11
Jack Jostes
Now, so I was curious. So we. You posted something about nutrition. I did, and I wanted to talk about that for a minute because I think it's often overlooked the importance of protein.
13:22
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
13:23
Jack Jostes
And on mental health in general and specifically for ADHD.
13:28
Kristen Kiely
That's right.
13:29
Jack Jostes
So what have you learned about this?
13:30
Kristen Kiely
Yeah, absolutely. So for me, throughout the day, again, being on meetings all day or focused on tasks all day, I would find that I would go the whole day without eating. And then by 2pm, 3pm, I'm crashing, I'm tired, I have a headache, I'm obviously hungry, but I've just forgotten. Right. And so during this process, getting assessed, getting diagnosed, I was like, all right, we're gonna try all of these things. Right. Hired a nutritionist. She said, all right, the first thing I want you to do is focus on your protein levels. So now by lunchtime, I'm aiming to get. Get at least 100 grams of protein.
14:06
Jack Jostes
Wow.
14:07
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
14:07
Jack Jostes
I mean, most people don't even eat 100 grams of protein in a day.
14:11
Kristen Kiely
I know, I know.
14:12
Jack Jostes
And so I love that you're doing that. I'm doing that too. So how are you doing that? Because my experience with this, I have a business coach, he brought in a strength coach, and I went through this strength coaching thing and I had never done that. And part of it was he's like, yeah, you need to. For you, Jack, you need 180 grams of protein. Protein a day. And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna go for it. And then I ended up gaining a ton of weight because I was overeating everything else that came with it because I was eating like jambalaya or chili or like things that had a ton of other calories with it.
14:49
Kristen Kiely
Right.
14:49
Jack Jostes
So it was really difficult. And then I got into single ingredient foods. So I eat a lot of beef.
14:55
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
14:55
Jack Jostes
I actually just bought a half California cow.
14:57
Kristen Kiely
Okay. Oh, I've got a story about that. Yeah.
15:00
Jack Jostes
Okay.
15:00
Kristen Kiely
You do? Yeah, I do. I don't want to get us too up track two ADHD people on a podcast. We'll get back to that.
15:06
Jack Jostes
Yeah. Well, so. But I bought a cow because then I can get all this protein.
15:11
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
15:11
Jack Jostes
And I had a steak today.
15:14
Kristen Kiely
Nice.
15:14
Jack Jostes
For breakfast, cuz.
15:15
Kristen Kiely
Did you bring it from home?
15:16
Jack Jostes
No, I actually stayed in an Airbnb, so I, I do video production and I, I do a mobile video stick studio around these shows I rent at like a high end. Airbnb.
15:27
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
15:27
Jack Jostes
And then I bring my video studio. And this morning I, I made steak and baked potatoes.
15:34
Kristen Kiely
That's, that's excellent. And you're. I love that for you.
15:37
Jack Jostes
Yes. You're targeting 100 grams of protein before noon by lunchtime.
15:42
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
15:43
Jack Jostes
How has that one thing impacted your mental health, would you say?
15:48
Kristen Kiely
Absolutely.
15:48
Jack Jostes
Really?
15:49
Kristen Kiely
It's really interesting. I find that when I eat properly, I have so much more mental clarity. Right. I have so much more energy. I'm able to get through the day, I'm able to focus. It's just been really good as well, to help me get more into exercise. Right. Because I'm feeling better throughout the day. I have more energy to work out. It's interesting. I think you said, how are you doing that? I actually use a lot of calls, collagen, eat a lot of yogurt, things like that. Definitely the single ingredient foods are important. Too. Right. Lots of whole foods. That was one of the things that my nutritionist said was really important too, I found.
16:32
Jack Jostes
I mean, like, when you commit to eating 100 to 130 total in a day, I'm doing 180. I found another thing that happened. So I did the carnivore diet last year for 10 weeks.
16:49
Kristen Kiely
I believe it. You said you have a half cow, right?
16:51
Jack Jostes
Yeah. Well, and that was part of it because it became really expensive. And I just found, though, that eating beef was like, man, I felt incredible. And it was part of like a gut health thing. And I did the gut health reset. I lost a lot of weight and that wasn't necessarily the reason why I did it. It was more about the gut health thing. But then I found that I. I increased my strength training and I was waking up starving at like three in the morning.
17:19
Kristen Kiely
Oh, no way.
17:20
Jack Jostes
Because I was working out and then my body was like, I just was under eating. So I don't know. It's. It's a challenge, I think, because eating that amount of protein, I found then I'm just not really hungry and I have to like, focus on eating the rest of the. The food.
17:35
Kristen Kiely
Yes.
17:35
Jack Jostes
Do you have Absolutely. Like, it's really, it's like work.
17:39
Kristen Kiely
Yeah.
17:39
Jack Jostes
Whereas I used to just kind of eat what I felt like and I would have those energy crashes around 2:38.
17:46
Kristen Kiely
I feel like I'm a very organized person these days, so I do still track everything that I eat and I find that helps too. Right. So I know where the gaps are. I know what I need to do throughout the day. I plan everything so I always know what I'm eating for breakfast. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I find that helps too. Right. Especially if the day gets away from you and you're super busy. It's nice to just know that you don't have to think about those things.
18:10
Jack Jostes
What was your half cow story?
18:12
Kristen Kiely
Oh, my half cow story. So in high school, I was dating a farmer's son and they had cows on their property. And he bought his first cow. His name was Chester. And I remember this calf coming in and we'd go there all the time. We'd four wheel over to the cows and love Chester. Got to know him really well. Well, they decided to send him to the butcher and then they sold my parents half of Chester. Needless to say.
18:38
Jack Jostes
Wait, so Chester was the cow?
18:40
Kristen Kiely
Chester was the cow, yeah. Needless to say, I didn't have any. Yeah.
18:45
Jack Jostes
Because you got to know Chester.
18:46
Kristen Kiely
That's Right. That's right. Chester was fresh, not food.
18:49 – Where to connect with Kristen and LeanScaper
18:49
Jack Jostes
Okay. Well, Kristin, we've talked a bit about ADHD. You've got really cool stuff going on with LeanScaper. We've got to wrap up, though. So for folks listening who want to network with you, where can we connect?
19:01
Kristen Kiely
Yeah, absolutely. You can reach me on Instagram. It's Kristen Kiley, CXO. I'm on LinkedIn as well. Right. If you go to LeanScaper, you're going to find me. And we just, we're really trying to spread the word. I think what we're trying to do in this industry is create a movement and it feels powerful and it feels like it's happening. So. So we. I would just encourage any landscapers out there that are looking at ways that they can be more lean, more efficient, more profitable. Reach out. Let's have a conversation.
19:32
Jack Jostes
Cool. Well, I'll put links to your Instagram and LinkedIn and LeanScaper website. Thank you and definitely dig what you guys are doing. And thanks for coming on The Landscaper's Guide. Thanks for having me and thanks for coffee, of course.
19:42
Kristen Kiely
Absolutely.
19:43
Jack Jostes
It was great. Like today's video and subscribe to our YouTube channel. Subscribe to get upcoming videos to help you grow your snow and landscape company. My name is Jack Jostes and check out my free resources in the show notes and click the next video to grow your business.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript: https://landscapersguide.com/podcast/
Get your free beef jerky sample: https://landscapersguide.com/toolbox
See upcoming live and virtual events: https://landscapersguide.com/events
Connect with Kristen:
Instagram: https://instagram.com/kristencxo
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristenkielycfe/
LeanScaper: https://leanscaper.com