00:00 Introduction
Jack Jostes:
Do you have a mentor coaching you in your snow and landscape company? Or have you thought about coaching someone else? In today's podcast, I interview Jacob Peffer, who is the 2023 SIMA Scholarship Award winner. I met him at Thess Symposium, and in today's interview he talks about what is the scholarship program and what kind of benefits is he getting from his various mentors? What is he learning? What books is he reading? And it's overall an inspiring story. He, he shares an incredible story of his first time interviewing a potential employee. So check it out. This is a great conversation. Let's get to it.
Hey everyone, Jack Jostes here. Welcome to The Landscaper's Guide. This show is all about sales, marketing, and leadership ideas for the snow and landscape industry. And I love this industry. I love meeting people who have built their business from the time they were in high school into these multimillion dollar organizations. I love meeting people who are running small businesses and large businesses. And today I am excited to interview somebody who's, who's pretty young in his career, but he's going for it. I was talking with today's guest about how busy he is. He's like, Hey, I got your book. Thank you. But it's a lot. I'm so busy. And he didn't know the book is available on Audible, so check out the Tree of Good Fortune on Audible. Listen to it this summer. And now let's have our conversation with Jacob Peffer. All right, everyone, welcome back to the Landscaper's Guide. Today I'm excited to interview Jacob Peffer. He's the owner of Greener Concepts Lawn Care Solutions, out in Cranberry Township, Pennsylvania. And he was thes scholarship winner. And I, I, uh, Jacob, I really enjoyed meeting you at the Sinus Symposium and thanks for coming on the show.
Jacob Peffer:
Yeah, thank you a lot. It's, uh, it's pretty cool to be here.
2:02 The 2023 SIMA Scholarship Winner
Jack Jostes:
Well, so Jacob, tell us a little bit, uh, what is the SI scholarship and how were you selected?
Jacob Peffer:
So it's, it's for first time attendees. Um, so I just, you know, I went on their site and it's for one free full registration to the, you know, the symposium and you get $500 stipend, a travel stipend, uh, and then, uh, four nights in the hotel. So I was selected. They kind of base it off of how long you've been in business, um, the money you generated in 2022. And, uh, that's basically it. That's, that's what I did. And then they asked like what I wanted to learn from it and mentorships and stuff like that. It was cool.
2:42 The Beginning Of Greener Concepts
Jack Jostes:
And so how long have you been in business? How long have you had greener concepts?
Jacob Peffer:
Uh, I started it October 10th, 2021. So at the very end of the season. So, uh, I just tell everyone I started it last year.
Jack Jostes:
Okay. <laugh>. Yeah. Well, that's great. So what were, uh, what were some of the things maybe that you learned at the symposium that inspired you in growing your company?
Jacob Peffer:
Um, a lot of the people there were telling me systems and processes. Everybody I was asking stuff about, they were just get the backend stuff situated and focus on your processes and everything else can just, you know, fall into place as time goes on.
3:20 How Did You Get Started In The Industry?
Jack Jostes:
And so, right now, tell us a little bit about, um, your, your company, the history of it. How did you get started? How many people are working with you currently?
Jacob Peffer:
Uh, right now I have three employees. Um, one's part-time, two are full-time. Uh, I started, I was working for Grounds Guys, the franchise. Mm-hmm. uh, in 2021. And I was in college. I dropped outta college and stuff. I was working in steel mills out of high school. Um, and then Covid happened and stuff, so I just worked for Grounds Guys and I just fell in love with my own grass. So that's where it all started. What,
Jack Jostes:
What do you like about it?
Jacob Peffer:
I just like, there's just an end result to it. You know, you get to look back at it and be like, wow, I did that. That's pretty cool. So, and I just, you know, sometimes clients, older clients would come out and speak and I just liked talking to them and stuff. So it was just the, the clientele was fun too.
Jack Jostes:
So we, we met on the bus after the Siama. Uh, it was like a dinner train event. Yeah. How cool was that Dinner train event? It
Jacob Peffer:
Was really cool. I've never experienced something like that, so it
Jack Jostes:
Was really cool. Yeah, me neither. I'm, I'm glad that they did that. And we took a really funny selfie, cuz that was hilarious. We were on the bus, we were having a chat. I'm like, I'm gonna take a, I'm gonna take a photo. And we have this, it looks like, it looks like a, like a, a Polaroid camera or something like, it, it's like, kind of, kind of blurry.
Jacob Peffer:
It's so
4:43 Jacob’s First Experience Interviewing An Employee
Jack Jostes:
Blurry. It's not a good picture at all. But we're both laughing. One of the stories that you told me on the bus that I, I really liked was about how one of your employees showed up and just nailed an interview. Tell us the story. Tell us, you know, where, tell us the whole story. Yeah, because I lo I love this story.
Jacob Peffer:
So I was searching for someone around, uh, February cuz I knew I needed to get him kind of trained and in into the process I already had. Um, so I found him and he actually lived two doors up from me. I mean, I kind of, he graduated probably three years after I did. And so I asked one of my buddies brothers if he knew he wanted that was wanting work and he referred him. So his name's Trent. And I told him to meet at the local coffee shop. So I go there half hour, 45 minutes early and I'm nervous cuz it's my first interview with somebody for my business. And, uh, they're under construction. So I'm like, there's no way I have to go to McDonald's right now because there was no other place to go except for McDonald's. We have 7,000 people in our hometown. So I had to go to McDonald's, I had to text them and say, Hey, we're gonna have to go to McDonald's. And uh, I'm sitting in the corner waiting for him. Yeah. And he pulls up in dress shoes, nice pants, and a whole button down t-shirt. And I was like, this kid's tired. He's just ready to go. His hair was done and everything and he just nailed the interview. Just nailed it. So from that moment on, he's been, he's been here and he is, he's kicking butt for me. So
Jack Jostes:
I I love that story. I love that you ended up at McDonald's and, and he just brought that level of professionalism to the interview and that you met him mm-hmm. and that he nailed it. So that's, that's such a great story. And, um, yeah,
Jacob Peffer:
There was, um, sorry. There's, there was, there was just a bunch of retired guys sitting around too, and they looked at him as he was walking through. He was like, what is this kid doing right now? <laugh> all dressed up.
6:45 Milo; The Face of Greener Concepts
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. That's awesome. That, that's so good. Um, so tell me a little bit about your, your, your logo and your mascot. Milo.
Jacob Peffer:
Uh, so he's right here. I wore him for the interview. Um, little, it's a squirrel. Everyone thinks it's a beaver. Um, but my stepsister is actually, she does graph design, uh, part-time uhhuh. So I just, I just asked her, I was like, Hey, I'm interested in getting like a brand character for the business. I wanted some more freedom for my marketing and stuff and the social media. I wanted to give like a face to the, to the company that wasn't human, I guess. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so I decided on a squirrel and she came up with it and I was like, that's perfect. So I just went and rolled with it.
Jack Jostes:
That's awesome. And, and it's all over your website. The squirrel is all over. You've got him doing like lawn mowing, um, he's got a lawn mower. Um, you've got property cleanups and, and mm-hmm. <affirmative> snow and different things. So I like it. I think it's, it's kind of fun. Um, it's definitely still professional and looks good. One of the things that I, that I noticed when we were, I was looking at your site with you on the bus mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I said, Hey Jacob, do you work for gmail.com
Jacob Peffer:
<laugh>? That's so funny. Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. But one thing that's amazing is, so we were texting and I think within like a day of the event, you created a new email address, right?
Jacob Peffer:
Yeah. Literally the day after. Cause we flew back the next day after that closing event. I sat down and I was just laughing at the fact that it was like, I have a Gmail email account. I can't have a, I don't work for Gmail. So right then and there I went on, you know, you showed me Google Workspace. So I just went on Google Workspace, created it, and then it's been there ever since. And I created a bunch of aliases now cause you can create free aliases. So I have a sales one and a, um, just my Jacob at, you know, greener concepts too.
Jack Jostes:
I, I really like that. So it's kind of like Trent showing up and crushing the interview at McDonald's with getting dressed and mm-hmm. <affirmative> doing his hair and like, just nailing it. Those little details of your email address make you a step up from somebody else who's at gmail.com and, and it's just a step in the, the right direction with professionalism. So I think those, those are little things that having your, your cool branded logo and your branded shirts, um, you're on track. And to me that just showed that you're receptive and coachable and you came to this event and you learned about a bunch of books and you're already taken action. So I mainly just wanted you to come on the show to highlight your story. And, and partly, you know, a lot of people who are ins may not get to meet you. But know that the Thes Foundation, which we've donated to last year, we donated all of the proceeds from my book sales at the symposium to Thes Foundation. I love connecting with people like you and seeing that, okay, these are people who are growing their business and working on it. So
Yeah. Thanks. Thank you,
Jacob Peffer:
<laugh>. Well, no, thank you. Like I said, it was, it was really overwhelming the amount of, you know, people that were just, just throwing themselves at me, giving me advice. And it was, I'm very grateful for the opportunity that was, that was given to me. Um, I was very appreciative and it was, it was an amazing experience that I got to do that. So,
10:20 Unveiling Jacob's Mentor and the Valuable Lessons Learned
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. So, so what were, you know, one of the things that you were telling me is that you've kind of reached a, you know, there are lots of different levels that you reach as you grow your business and you're at one where you may need a second truck, but your mentor was saying, Hey Jacob, before you get the second truck, you've gotta get your numbers dialed in. You've gotta get your processes dialed in. And I know that is tough news to hear because you're feeling at capacity and you're like, oh, if I had this other vehicle, I could, I could do this. And I think it's really amazing that you have a mentor who's telling you those things because that was one of the challenges in growing my own business is for many years I didn't really have a mentor or anyone who actually understood my business. I now have a mentor who has built up and sold his digital agency and runs a mastermind. So I'm always going to his group and learning from him. But for the first few years I didn't. And I think it's just really smart and wise of you to have a mentor and to listen to that. So I'm curious, um, can you share who that is and what are maybe some of the other things that you've learned in working with a mentor?
Jacob Peffer:
Um, well his name's David Gallagher. Um, and he actually, I met him going to the gym, uh, our local gym, uh, at five in the morning every day. So he, he really helps with, I am very, as I'm a very scatterbrained person, so he helps me, uh, just kind of hone in on the organization, parts of the business. And I always tell him, you gotta take risks, you know, you gotta be scared. And he goes, well, yeah, you don't wanna do things that's gonna kill your business though, <laugh>. So he's very logical. He makes me think more logically. Um, he always puts the feelings out of my decisions cuz I'm like, I know I need another truck. I have two trucks right now. I I need an, i I always keep telling myself I need a third one. Um, and he is like, give me the spreadsheet, make a, make a budget. And I'm like, I don't want to make a budget. I just want the other truck <laugh> cuz I'm at capacity. I'm over capacity. So, but yeah, he's, he's very, um, he's a very organized person and I'm very blessed to have him in my life cuz I think I'd not be where I was without
Jack Jostes:
Him. Well, and I, I, I felt, I felt the same way with a lot of things in my business with the things that I wanted to buy and budgeting and some of the financial things really did not come naturally to me. And I ended up having, I've been transparent about it in my book and in the show I ended up having a lot of debt, like six figures of business debt, like really got outta hand because I just kept borrowing and didn't spend the time on things like pricing and really nailing my numbers. And then I eventually, when I did that was, uh, and man, it caused a lot of stress for me. So <laugh>, you know, to have all of that debt and to not understand the money. And then I finally started reading, I read the book Profit First and there's a profit first for lawn and landscape companies. There's, there's Tony Bass's book, the Emith, uh, landscape contractor, you know, and that one, he has a strong financial background. There's a lot of different resources out there, but I think it's, yeah, it's a balancing act of taking risks and taking calculated ones. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, I know you're gonna get the truck soon, <laugh>. Anyways, so yeah, he, I'm excited. <laugh>,
Jacob Peffer:
He really helps me with that stuff. Cuz like I said, I'm actually so behind on my bookkeeping and stuff too cuz I'm, I'm still in the field. I'm still trying to manage the employees and making, going to the estimates. It's all, you know, they're all tears of the businesses, but where I'm at right now, everything is just completely disorganized and I gotta try and organize everything so it's hard. But yeah, he's, he's definitely helped with spreadsheets sending me, he's like, here, do this, follow this outline and you'll be able to, you know, figure stuff out. I'm like, but he never just does it for me. You know, he, he makes me do it cuz I need to learn how to do it. But, uh, yeah, I'm taking, I'm taking an accounting class over the winter. I'm forcing myself to do it cuz I need to, I need to understand what's going on <laugh>
14:33 Blind Marketing Spots In The Industry Q&A
Jack Jostes:
More. Oh, that's awesome. That that'll be so valuable. Yeah. Uh, so, um, you, you told me before the show, you had a couple questions for me about sales and marketing that you wanted to, to work through on the show. Yes.
Jacob Peffer:
Uh, what is overlooked when it comes to marketing in our business?
Jack Jostes:
One thing that I think is overlooked, and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse saying this so often, but it's online reviews. And the reason it's overlooked is many landscapers will say, oh, we're in a word of mouth business. I get referrals. I get the majority of my work from word of mouth. And I'm like, yeah, you know, if you do a good job, you should be getting referrals. Like, if you're not getting referrals, you're probably not doing a good job. Right? Like, if you're, if your lawns aren't looking excellent and the neighbor isn't like, Hey, who is that? They look, they're look like they're showing up every week. I need that. Um, you're probably doing something wrong. But what many people don't realize is that referrals will Google you. You know, like let's say that I, oh yeah, I work with, uh, greener concepts, uh, Jacob and maybe, maybe they text your info. A lot of homeowners are gonna Google you. Right. And so I wanted to acknowledge that when I googled you. You've got 38 Google reviews, you have a 4.9 star average.
Jacob Peffer:
Yeah, I, uh, I got kicked with a one star this year. I was pretty upset about it, but, uh,
Jack Jostes:
Well, well I'm gonna, let me read it. This person's saying that you didn't end up doing the job in the timeframe. Yeah. And, and you did the right thing here though, Jacob. You said, Andrea, thanks for your feedback. Weather is one of the major headaches in our industry. We are extremely sorry we could not perform the job within your timeframe. Pretty professional reply, right? That's like, as good as it gets. Um, so I think you did the right thing and actually having a 4.9 or even like a 4.7 star average is good. It's actually better than having a perfect five star. Um, so is it because
Jacob Peffer:
It's like two, you're almost two perfect, right? Yes. So you would
Jack Jostes:
Need it. Yes. There are lots of studies. One of 'em that just came out a couple months ago is from the company Moz, m o z. And they did, uh, the local business, this isn't the title, but it's basically they, they analyzed and interviewed thousands of people about their trust in online reviews. And people absolutely trust online reviews, but they get suspicious when they're all perfect. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? So what do most people do? Probably what you and I do. You, you click sort by lowest and you start reading the negative ones. Everybody does. It's like, and then if the owner's an idiot and is like, replying, well, you're a, you're an idiot to the customer, then it's like, oh, well this is how this person's gonna treat me when a problem comes up. Or it's an opportunity to show like, Hey, this person's responsive, they took accountability, they were professional, I think I'm gonna work with them.
Jacob Peffer:
Yeah. That's the, the one thing I I looked at was, you know, yeah, you would get a one star, but I think most people will see how the company responds to that review. Uh, so that's, I wanted to make sure I was professional. I don't wanna make myself look stupid, so
Jack Jostes:
No, you did, you did the right thing.
Jacob Peffer:
Another question I had for you was, what do most businesses at my size fail to do for sales and marketing?
Jack Jostes:
I think that, you know, when you're getting started and you're growing word of mouth and you're taking on what you can, um, you, you've gotta, you've gotta increase your rates at a certain point. And I know a lot of companies when they're starting out, it's partly because they don't know the, their financials. They don't know their overhead costs. They don't know what they actually need to be charging. And you can get, and I did this myself too, focused on revenue and new customers and not focused enough on like, well hey, did we profit on this? Are we, are we making a profit? Um, because if you're not, then you're probably not charging enough. And so sometimes if you're closing too many sales, like some people are like, we close 90 to 100% of every estimate. It's like, hmm. You know, like, are you, you know, are you charge, are you charging enough?
Right. Yeah. So I think that would be a, a, a key sales that's more of a, it's a sales and operations issue of not charging enough. The other thing that I would strongly recommend that you do, um, and we were talking about, um, um, crew control from Aspire or what, whatever software you end up using, and this is partly a bookkeeping thing, but keeping track of which services customers have bought and having detailed invoicing. So if it's lawn mowing, you've got lawn mowing. If you do landscaping, you've got landscaping. If you've got snow, you've got snow. If you've got irrigation. Um, partly because then you can, once you build up your book of business, go back and upsell accounts like maybe they bought lawn mowing but they haven't bought landscaping and maybe they don't even know that you do landscaping. Maybe they think, yeah, oh, I've known Jacob for three years and I, I think he just mows lawns. But you're gonna, you're gonna increase your skills and the services that you offer. And having, having that organized allows you to send an email instead of spending like hours looking through and thinking, does Mrs. Jones have landscaping? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you just have that sorted in your database and you can fire off emails to people like, Hey, did you know that we offer landscaping? That, that, yeah, that alone could be an amazing email to send.
Jacob Peffer:
Okay. Um, what process lacks in the sales process?
Jack Jostes:
Um, I'd say the, the number one step that people are missing is a qualification step. Meaning before you spend a ton of time walking a property, dreaming with people, coming up with ideas of, of qualifying, are they in your service? Um, do they need the services that you offer? And do they have a budget that fits with your company? And so one of the ways we help our clients with that is to create pricing guides on the website. So being transparent upfront on the website, you don't have to give a McDonald's list of menu pricing, but you could give ranges and help people understand how you come up with your pricing. That can eliminate people who are like, oh, you know what, I'm looking for a one time mow for 20 bucks. And maybe you have a, I don't know. How, how long is your minimum contract with people? Is it, do you have
Jacob Peffer:
One? So I actually, you know, right now I don't, but I actually lost like $12,000 cuz we didn't cut grass for two weeks. Um, wow. Yeah, it, it, it hurt me pretty bad, you know, cuz it, we got in a huge drought, um, and I lost around 12 grand. It may be a little less than that because we weren't mowing. There was nothing to nothing to cut. We would cut. I literally cut one yard twice on two routes. Um, out of 22, 23 yards in a day, like two weeks. It's, it was rough. So I don't have contracts I need, I'm doing it next year though. I have to.
22:06 What is the Visionary Plan For Greener Concepts?
Jack Jostes:
I was curious, you know, what are, what are some of your goals with, with the, with the future of the company? So you started this, um, you've been doing it for, you're saying a year. Um, what, what are, what's your kind of vision of the company? Where are you headed?
Jacob Peffer:
Well, I'd like to get, obviously, you know, the, the pesticide applications. We're gonna open that division next year. Um, and I'd like to scale in three years to a million. Uh, that's where I'd like to go. So that's where we're hopefully heading.
Jack Jostes:
Uh, I love that goal. So let's pretend that it's three years from now and let's pretend that we're looking at a pie chart of your revenue. What percentage of it would be, you know, pesticide what, or like lawn care versus landscaping versus lawn mowing versus snow? Have you thought about that?
Jacob Peffer:
I have. And it's, it's just really hard to gauge because I'm so, uh, I don't know the markets enough. You know, obviously doing the mowing and stuff, I like that to be, you know, 40% of, you know, the revenue. But going to that symposium was insane because there's so many companies there that are making so much money off of snow. They have more, they have more people employed in the winter than they do in the summer, some of them. Uh, so, you know, ideally, you know, a third of each would be, would be great. Right now I have, uh, two snow contracts, commercial contact contracts. I don't really want to do any residential. I feel like they're, uh, inconvenient. I just love cutting grass. So if I could cut grass year around, you know, a hundred percent of my revenue would be that just cuz I love doing it. Um, but that's not ideal. <laugh>.
Jack Jostes:
Do you see yourself managing other people who cut grass or do you wanna, you know, do you want to be the one doing it?
Jacob Peffer:
Well, I'm doing it now. Um, and it's very hard. Uh, you know, cuz beginning of the year I was training people to do everything. Um, and I was going out by myself mowing, you know, 10 to 15 yards and then they were doing the rest. Um, and it was hard quality wise, I was getting consistent complaints every single week. You know, three, four of the clients every single week were complaining. Um, so what I did is I created a system. It's a binder in the truck that has the satellite vision or the satellite view of the yards. And then I, I drew on each yard a trimming route so they could do it efficiently. And I circled things that they had to blow off and stuff like that to ensure that they didn't miss anything. So, um, I think so far I've, I've been doing okay, but there's always room for improvement to managing. So.
Jack Jostes:
Cool. Well, Jacob, it was a pleasure meeting you and I hope to see you at another show sometime. And, uh, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Jacob Peffer:
Uh, thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
Jack Jostes:
All right everyone, hope you enjoyed today's show. If you did, make sure to subscribe at landscapersguide.com/podcast/ where you'll get our weekly podcast, email newsletter, and in invitations to all of our upcoming events. And if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, if you're watching it on YouTube, like it, um, leave a review where you can leave a review. It helps more people learn about the show. My name's Jack Jostes and I look forward to talking to you next week on the Landscaper's Guide. I was, I was talking with today's guest, he's like, Hey, you sent me your book. I'm busy. Let's <laugh>, let's, um, pick it up there.
