Just last week, Chase Morgan CEO said that we're heading for an economic hurricane. Well, my landscape clients in South Carolina, North Carolina, and Florida all do hurricane preparation and hurricane cleanup for their landscape clients. How do you get your business ready for this? In today's podcast, I talk with one of my clients who has way more experience and wisdom on this topic than I do, who shares a surprising perspective on marketing.
Hey everyone, Jack Jostes here, and welcome to The Landscaper's Guide. This show is all about helping you grow your lawn and landscape company into a thriving business with great people working with you, great customers. And that's not easy. It takes a long time to really build the right team, have the right systems, with the right customers. For quite a while, we've had a boom economy. There's been enormous demand for landscaping. The stay-at-home thing the last couple years with COVID had even increased the demand for landscaping. But what happens during an economic downturn? How do you prepare for that? We're all thinking about it, and in today's episode, we're just going to talk openly about it with one of my clients.
Last month, I went to Dallas, Texas to do video shoots for three of my landscape clients in the area, one of whom is Alterra Landscape Design, a high end design-build firm led by Jeffrey Riddle. I got to interview the clients of Alterra, so their actual customers, which was really rewarding because the interviews took place at one of the landscapes that they installed. That was rewarding to see firsthand, because we've built their website, I've geeked out on the designs and the photos, and I got to experience it and talk to the people. That was so cool, because many of them actually found Alterra online and went through their website, and I've seen them come through the contact form, and now here I am in person talking to these people. It was cool, because the things they were saying about why they chose Alterra matched the branding work that we've done with Alterra. We've created their three reasons to buy, and they were true. They were on point.
That was a pretty cool experience.
After the shoot, we were back at Jeff's house chilling on the front porch, which was really cool. We were just hanging out, and he has three rocking chairs. So it was me, Jeff, and then his principal Hayden. Jeff has just way more experience than Hayden and I do, and it was interesting to hear from Jeff, "Why are we investing money in marketing and in video right now when their pipeline is just booming, when they have a wait list?" Jeff shares some stories and some insights about why he's choosing to invest in marketing now, and how he sees its place in a recession.
Now, we didn't have as much time as I would've liked to individually microphone each of us and everything, because we were getting ready to go meet a bunch of people for dinner. But, I knew the conversation was going to be important, so we just got it done. There is some noise. There's some wind, you'll hear traffic, you'll hear dogs barking. I've cut out the parts that were just unusable, and bear with me on the rest of the audio for this. I think it's a story worth sharing. Let's hear what Jeff and Hayden have to say.
All right, so here we are. We're on the front stoop of the Riddle residence in Richardson, Texas. That's right. And it's a beautiful day. We just shot some videos. Now we're hanging out in rocking chairs. This is pretty great.
Jack Jostes:
This is how we rock and roll. So, so today we have Jeff Riddle, who's the owner of Alterra Landscape Design, and Hayden, who is the principal.
Hayden:
That's correct.
Jack Jostes:
And I learned today that you have a background in construction science.
Hayden:
Yep. Yep. So I got my degree at A&M, and built houses for a while until Jeff brought me on board Alterra.
Jack Jostes:
I got to see a front door that you built yeah.
Hayden:
For the Jameses.
Jack Jostes:
For the Jameses. That was really cool.
Hayden:
That was a fun kind of opportunity where Jeff was there doing a front yard and backyard for them, and they had mentioned they wanted a front door. Then with my background it's kind of an easy transition to be like, "Well, we can help you out with that if you guys want to follow through." And sure enough, it's like a month after we finished the front landscape, they called and said, "Hey, we want to do the front door." So cool. Let's do it.
Jeff Riddle:
Great look, great. New modern look for them. Really enhances the house with the landscape and the new door. It's big transition.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. It's really cool. And it was so cool today. So today we did an interview at one of your client's houses and you had lunch brought in. We had, I think, four or five different couples come in and talk about why they loved working with Alterra.
It was cool being on your marketing team to meet people and some of whom who had found you through the website. Then we made a video about the three reasons to hire Alterra Landscape Design, and everything that your clients said basically matched what you said are the reasons people should buy from you. So the marketing...that was just kind of a cool thing.
Hayden:
That's a good thing.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Jeff Riddle:
We haven't heard the results yet. So, well, we'll see. I'm glad,
Jack Jostes:
You know, we're going to have to do a lot of editing cause they...
Hayden:
They said really good stuff.
Jack Jostes:
But editing is cool, it is. It was also cool because we were at the property of one of the properties that won the teal award from the TLA, Texas excellence in landscaping.
So I've managed the photos of that. We've seen the designs and it was just cool to sit there under their pergola. And one of the things I wanted to talk about is "Why are we doing marketing when you guys are already so dang busy,"
Why Is Marketing Important? Why Spend The Money?
Jeff Riddle:
Yeah. Kind of interesting to feel it when you're so busy, that you can't get to all the opportunity you have. And some of the feeling you have is, "Why are we doing this? Why spend the money? Why are we putting forth the effort to improve our marketing, improve our website, enhance our videos, and so forth when right now we can't get to all the work we have?" You intuitively know the answer, but it's hard to spend the money when you've got so much work. You'd rather spend money hiring or on new equipment. But for those of us that have been around a while and seen downturns in the economy, you kind of remember that. You remember how painful that was. so you want to really be prepared for that.
You got to keep your eye on that ball and ignore the feelings and do the right thing, if you will.
Jack Jostes:
Well, yeah. Tell me more about that. My experience, I started Ramblin Jackson during the last recession, 2008, 2009, partly because I graduated and there were no jobs. No one was hiring and it was more of a, "Okay, I need to make a living. I'm going to go start freelancing."
That started growing, and then I started hiring people, and I eventually then had the vision of growing a marketing agency with staff. I eventually landed in the green industry, but I didn't really have any experience prior to that.
How To Be Prepare For A Downturn
Jeff Riddle:
Yeah. I mean, it's been a while since we've had a hard downturn. But those of us that are old enough to remember it, again, you remember how painful it was. So you want to be prepared. I sound like a broken record and I sound like an old grump sometimes sort of saying, "Hey, it's going to happen again." It's not an "if" it's a "when".
I don't know, just keeping your eye on the ball and continually improving, whether good time or bad time, not just marketing but everything you do I think is real important. On the other hand, I work with fortunately younger folks like Hayden, who also keep me from kind of taking that to an extreme of getting real negative about it and being fearful. You don't want to do that either. So yeah.
Hayden:
I certainly think I've learned a lot from Jeff in that facet. I think right now it's tempting to just focus solely on what work we have right now. Just trying to get it. Again, not taking on too many clients, but taking on what we can handle and focusing on that, instead of reserving some time to focus on marketing because you're right.
The more we prep for it, the more prepared we're going to be when that time.... It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when", when that time comes. We'll position ourselves to be better suited than other landscape firms.
Jack Jostes:
I think some, some businesses are just going to go out of business. They hire fly-by-night people who are getting away with...
Jeff Riddle:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
There's so there's so much demand that there's a lot of people I think in many industries who don't really know what they're doing,
Jeff Riddle:
They say a rising tide floats all boats, the good boats and the not so good. And right now the tide is way up. We've enjoyed a fantastic economy for quite a long time. And that tide is... people alive are smart, people are saying, "You know, the tide's about to go out." And so we want to be in the strongest boat we can when, when that...
Why Is Marketing Important In A Downturn?
Jack Jostes:
So why do you think that marketing is important in a downturn?
Hayden:
I mean, at that point fewer and fewer people are going to be spending the kind of money they are right now on their back... And there may not be mu many backyard projects to do. I just think it goes back to just being prepared. Right now we can't keep up with all the leads that are coming in and we're turning a lot of people down and nicely saying, "I'm sorry, we can't help you right now." But even if that number reduces 50%, we're still going to have a lot of leads that we can follow up with when it slows down to keep us busy and happy.
It goes back to the tree of good fortune analogy you take. Take care of that tree. It's going to take care of you in the good times and the bad times. So it may wither a little bit in the bad times, it's not going to die. We're just trying to build it up and make it as strong as we can right now. So if we do have another downturn, that tree is going to service well. So, we're taking care of the roots like you thought of and you know, building it as strong as we can.
The Power Of Video
Jack Jostes:
So the wind picked up and I had to cut that part out. But Jeff started talking about the power of video and how he's investing more money in video because video helps people feel like they've met you. It has this really magical experience that Jeff is enjoying now because last spring, he flew out to Colorado, to our studio and we produced a bunch of videos that are on his website and they're working, and now we're making more. We're featuring his customers and other people on his team. One of the things Jeff was saying was that saying, "A rising tide raises all boats" sort of thing. Right now there's just a ton of people getting away, honestly, with low quality. There's so much demand that people who don't really know what they're doing in a lot of industries, really, are getting away with poor customer service and things like that. Jeff doesn't really think that's going to continue. And when things get harder, video and reviews and things like that are going to help you stand out as a professional, that people will feel more safe spending money with.
The Importance Of Reviews
Hayden:
You're talking about the fly-by-night contractors that have no focus on their website or reviews and things like that. When it changes and the work is less plentiful, I think people really value reviews. I feel like almost all of our customers comment on say something about it's either "Your website" or "I saw your reviews." And that's why I wanted to reach out to you guys.
Jack Jostes:
The Dallas wind howled again, and while it was howling, we talked about a conversation I had with my business coach Wayne Herring. Wayne was sharing that people will still spend money on landscaping, but they may spend less. Or they may spend money in certain industries, but maybe they'll spend less. The funny thing is, some people will be totally fine and it won't change their spending at all. But one thing we talked about with Jeff and Hayden was the importance of reviews and how, when people are more careful with their money, they're going to do more research. That's where becoming very highly rated now can serve you later in a more trying economy. That way people feel good about choosing you. That's one of the reasons I put reviews as part of the foundational four in my book, "The Tree of Good Fortune." So that way people understand why you're different with your branding and differentiation and your process. You're communicating that on your website. You're generating an abundance of leads. People finding you through local SEO, and you're really sealing the deal as the contractor with positive online reviews.
Hayden:
I think it was Marie who I was talking with. When I mentioned the pizza oven and she just lit up, she was just smiling and thinking about having her friends over, and making dough, and having pizza parties. She loves that. Everyone talked about how much they really loved their home in a way that they didn't even realize was possible. Yeah. Well, she texted us one evening shortly after we finished photos of the family around the pizza oven, joy. Their evening. I think it was a Sunday evening. When we get those kinds of texts, it's why we do what we do. It's really, really gratifying to know that you're improving people's lives like that.
Jack Jostes:
Good. Well, this is a beautiful spot. I'd love to hang out here, but we've got to go to Javier's apparently Javier's Harness.
We have to have... It's a shame. We have to go to Javier's, which apparently has some of the best tech smarts in Dallas.
Jeff Riddle:
It is very good. It is at the top of the food chain.
Jack Jostes:
I'm really excited. You know, we've got several, several clients from Texas...
Hayden:
And thanks for hosting it.
Jack Jostes:
Oh my pleasure.
Jeff Riddle:
Really nice of you to do that.
Jack Jostes:
It'll be my pleasure to hang out with you all for the evening. So we gotta scoot. Maybe if we have time, we'll keep recording this in the car. See what happens. If you've been listening, you might have heard some dogs or some traffic or some birds. It's kind of a neat thing here hanging out.
So we ended up getting stuck in Dallas traffic, which gave me a new understanding of why people appreciate their landscape so much in Dallas, because the traffic there is real. Unfortunately, we ended up being a few minutes late for dinner, and I invited a bunch of my clients from Texas. That was a really rewarding experience because we one, we had phenomenal TexMex, and two, there was great networking that happened.
A lot of my clients hadn't met each other and it resulted in good strategic partnerships, especially for two of my clients who run nurseries and landscape companies. They can sell supplies and material to some of the other landscapers. So all around it was a great experience. I love working remotely. I love doing what we do. I love having clients all over the country, but I absolutely enjoy meeting our clients in person.
Every time I do, honestly, I come back feeling inspired and grateful that I get to work with the green industry because landscapers and horticulturalists and nursery people, all of you are incredibly resourceful. It's one of the most giving industries. It gave me my first job when I was a pimply high schooler working at a garden center. I worked there for five or six spring and summers. My, my sister currently just got a job at a nursery in Chicagoland, which is great. She's getting like 20,000 steps a day, which I envy when I'm at my computer for not 20,000 steps a day.
Anyways, I love the green industry and I just genuinely appreciate the work that our landscapers do when I'm looking at their photos, when we're building their websites, and learning about their process. No two of you are really the same, but there's enough in common that we're able to bring in experience from other clients to help you grow your business.
If the world gets really weird, also, knowing people who can build things and grow plants and maybe grow food is probably a good idea. So as far as a recession goes and marketing and stuff, do you agree with Jeff? Does it make sense to market your business, even when your pipeline is super full and even during a recession? I found that people who have succeeded, who have been through recessions before, they know the answer's "yes". They are less likely to get freaked out. They're still going to get freaked out, but they know that they need to continue marketing through it. And I actually had Tony Bass who wrote the "E-Myth Landscape Contractor" on the podcast a couple years ago. And he, he basically said the same thing.
Should You Market During A Recession?
Tony Bass:
Marketing creates this ginormous amount of confidence in contractors to be able to accelerate their marketing when the economy is growing and expanding or contracting.
Focus On What You Can Control
Jack Jostes:
I'm personally going to continue marketing and actually increase my own marketing. And we can't control how much money the government prints. We can't control the rate of inflation or the price of gas or the stock market or any of these things. So while we need to be aware of them, I really don't think there's a ton of value in obsessing about them or freaking out about them. We need to, we need to be aware of it, but I think there's a certain point where it's just negative information that we need to tune out and focus on what we can control, which includes things like customer service. How can you give the best customer service this week of any experience that your customer has? How can you teach your people to give a great customer service experience? And why wouldn't you want to do that even not in a recession,?
How can we train our staff to overcome objections around budget and talk to people about money, empathize with them when they're having challenges? Follow up. How can we follow up with each customer systematically? Even when they're not a fit now, or they didn't meet our project timeline before, could we follow up with them later on? if they give us a, "not now," how can we politely, helpfully, but persistently follow up with them, so that way, when they are ready, they choose us. Review requests.
How can we systematically ask each customer at the right time for an online review? So we become the highest rated contractor in our market, in our town. So that way, when people are even more skeptical of how they spend their money, they choose us. Products. How can we create new products and services to adapt to the market that are things that our customers can say "yes" to now?
And maybe they're different from what they were saying "yes," to two years ago. How can we be adaptive and responsive and nimble? This is why I love running a small business. And why I love working with small businesses. We can be nimble. We can be fast. We can be resourceful in serving our customers. Lead generation. How can we generate an abundance of leads? How can you rank online with your tree of good fortune and generate more business than you need? So you can still be picky about which projects you take on, even in a down economy. And lastly, as a human being, how much do you sleep? What do you eat? Are you getting physically stronger? All of these things and managing the stress that comes with financial challenges, I think are equally important as all this business stuff.
To be honest with you, I kind of love chaos. I enjoy working through it. One of my favorite quotes is from Hunter S. Thompson. When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. So, Hey. I'm ready to be weird with you and help you grow your business. And you've got to be weird and adapt in your market because your staff need you to do that. Most entrepreneurs love a little bit of chaos, and that's why you're here in the world, right? At Ramblin Jackson, we love being resourceful and helpful to our clients. We appreciate what the landscape industry does in the natural world with natural resources. And we can help you with business ideas, sales, and marketing systems, digital resources that can help you through this. It's time to get inspired. It's time to be proactive.
And I'd love to send you a free copy of my book "The Tree of Good Fortune". All you got to do is pay for the printing and shipping of it, and I'll ship it to you with a bag of beef jerky. You can also get the audio book version. So if you're busy and you want to listen to it or watch a video version of the book, I performed it and produced it. You can grab all of that at treeofgoodfortune.com. And if you already have the book or you're going to get it, check out the email marketing section. I believe email marketing is something that you do yourself and you don't even need a big software to do it or anything to follow up with your customers, keep in touch with them. So when they're ready, and when things do improve, they're choosing you and you're not starting out at zero trying to catch up. All right, everyone. My name's Jack Jostes. Thanks so much for listening to The Landscaper's Guide. Check out our show notes for a link to "The Tree of Good Fortune." Share this podcast with a landscaper who needs to hear it. I look forward to talking to you next week.