Jack Jostes [00:00:00]:
Hey, everyone. Jack Jostes here. Welcome to The Landscaper’s Guide Podcast. Right now, we're outside of Nashville, Tennessee, for our annual Ramblin Retreat, where we bring all the employees from Ramblin Jackson. We normally work remote, but we get together in person for a week for team building, which includes green industry training. So join me as we tour a high end landscape design with a cool pool just outside of Nashville, Tennessee.
00:24 - Property Showcase: Pool & Backyard Transformation
Mike Pruitt [00:00:24]:
Hello, everyone. I'm Mike Pruitt with Master’s Landscape Design, and we're here at a backyard renovation project that our team with Master’s Landscape Design completed recently. You guys come on in. We'll take a look around.
00:35 - The Pool Area: Design & Features
Mike Pruitt [00:00:25]:
So what we did here, originally, there was a pool on site. We completely removed that existing liner pool. There was a lot of decking on site here that came out from the house that was in great need of replacing. And then we also installed a new coverage structure over the outdoor kitchen area.
Mike Pruitt [00:01:02]:
Everything that you're going to see here in the backyard, we designed and installed shortly after the design was complete to just completely give this backyard an overhaul. Okay, so originally, what we had here in this space as we walk along is the pool was actually behind me. There was a deck that came out of the house. It was very low, came out really close to the edge of the pool. There was an original pool linered pool here, but it was very, very close to the edge of the deck. Kind of a liability as well. And it went out about maybe half as far as what this current pool design is, as you see here. Also, this covered structure was not here at the time.
Mike Pruitt [00:01:47]:
It was just a short structure. We added this and extended it on out, pushed the current pool design out into the backyard area to really just open this space up and create a much more comfortable environment. When we're addressing these outdoor living spaces that include a pool, oftentimes one of the first topics that comes up in conversation is what type of pool are we talking about? Because the budget will definitely impact what type of pool you're going to end up with. This behind me is a concrete, or they say gunite pool out west. They call it a shotcrete. If you would pool here in the south with a hot tub that's spilling into that and the concrete pools are really nice because you can create a freeform look. Next to that, a step down would be a liner pool. Oftentimes, if we're needing to save a little or move some money around in the budget to make things work, if they've got a lot of moving parts with their project, we may suggest moving to a liner project, which works wonderful as long as you don't have pets, dogs that may damage the liner, of course.
Mike Pruitt [00:02:54]:
And then next to that would be a fiberglass. You know, fiberglass options are perfect for some people, especially if you want more of an economical option. That's a really nice install along with, you know, the safety of, if you've got pets, that they're not going to damage it as well.
03:10 - Solving Drainage Challenges Around the Pool
Mike Pruitt [00:03:10]:
So one small challenge that we did have to overcome as far as drainage is concerned around this pool area, I'll show you as I walk around this brick facade that you see in the porch behind me. We had to basically incorporate the newly laid pavers here into this spot. So essentially what we have here is drainage coming from the home, from the brick, from the porch, also from under the covered structure. And we basically set this up to begin with, with the base before we put the pavers in to allow the water to escape through the decorative stone and around the corner of the house. And we have surface drains that collect it and take it on out to the furthest point of the property.
03:59 - Softscaping for Balance and Beauty
Mike Pruitt [00:03:59]:
So real quick, the softscaping that typically we're going to put into any design around any hardscape project is really by design for us. The sawscape really helps to balance and soften the hardscapes quite a bit. I'm a huge fan of some staple plants, such as grasses, around the pool area. As you notice some of the land towning here, there's annuals towards the front side. I'm really a fan. If you're going to use annuals, if you want blooming color year round, you're going to need to go with annuals. Right. Perennials are nice, but they, two weeks they bloom, and then they're out for the rest of the season.
Mike Pruitt [00:04:37]:
Or in some cases, they may bloom twice. But with annuals, they can be changed out in the fall, in the summer, and it's almost kind of like moving furniture around in your home. Right? So you can get a little bit of a different look from season to season as far as that's concerned. But we really think it does a great job in most all of our designs of softening that area between the hardscapes, no matter what we're building, whether it's a pool project, patio, outdoor living space, fireplace, it does a great job to help soften those areas. And you'll see also on this project, we have planters sitting around strategically. Love, love planters on patios. A great way to create a different look for each season for the fall, especially here in the south, in the Nashville, Tennessee area, you're going to have, you know, one year. You may do ferns in some of your planters.
Mike Pruitt [00:05:21]:
You may do shade plantings in a shaded area, and patience. For example, petunias are always a fan favorite as well. And so for us, it's about being able to mix it up. And then we also do this in a way that gives the customer the ability to come out and dabble in the landscaping with these annuals from time to time, if they so choose each season.
05:45 - Budget Tips: Creating a High-End Look for Less
Mike Pruitt [00:05:45]:
So some of you watching this may already know you may be well ahead of me here. A few things that often come up for our customers is where are some areas that we can maybe trim back as far as the budget is concerned? Because oftentimes these types of projects are going to be well into the six figures as far as that's concerned. So I just want to show you a couple small things that we can do to create the aesthetics of a more expensive look, without the expense, of course. As we walk through, I'm going to show you this structure. For example, as we walk into this structure, you can see these main beams that are here.
Mike Pruitt [00:06:23]:
It's all beefy, eight by eight cedar. Essentially what we did here, instead of going for the expense of the solid cedar timbers, which are much more expensive, these are six by six treated timbers on the inside. We just basically, we've got a great trim carpenter. We just basically put a one by one cedar, redwood, cedar board on everything you see here. So there's an LVL that we've got stretched across the center top here, but it looks like just one massive beam. And so it gives the allure, once it's all said and done, of just really heavy beams. But we, in essence, just use treated timbers to build this out. And also, as far as finished ceilings, we love to finish out the ceilings in our spaces.
Mike Pruitt [00:07:11]:
And I think it's very, very important on the front end to understand when you're designing these spaces, you know, what your angles are going to be. Oftentimes, we'll do a lot of gable type structures, and if we're finishing a back wall, and you'll see in some photos that we may have that, where we have to calculate the exact amount of Material. So there's a lot of engineering, a lot of mathematical equations that go into what we do, but it really, really, really does approve to create a wonderful end result in these projects.
07:24 - The Deck: Modern Design and Materials
Mike Pruitt [00:07:24]:
So basically, here, we're on the deck now that we've replaced, essentially coming out before they had a deck here that was in bad need of replacing. It was just sort of a layered deck. It wasn't easily navigatable, as far as that's concerned. Came out about as far as this deck here.
Mike Pruitt [00:08:03]:
It was a red painted wood, very, very dated deck. So we removed all of the deck to only find the supports under the original deck. Would not. Was not safe enough to suffice going forward for new construction. So we basically built the deck brand new from ground up. But this time we did a Trex deck with a Trex handrail. And we also mixed the colors up a little bit because the Trex by itself looks really good. But anytime you can picture frame a project like this in with a different color is always going to look really, really nice.
Mike Pruitt [00:08:39]:
Just much like we did with the pavers out in the pool area. And essentially, you've got a brand new, fresh, up to date, modern look that'll last a lifetime.
08:48 - Insights from the Homeowners and Designers
Jack Jostes [00:08:48]:
Hey, everyone. Right now we are in old hickory, Tennessee, at Peggy and Gary's house for the rambling Jackson retreat. We're checking out the landscape design from Mike Pruitt at Master’s Landscape Design. Mike, thanks for having us here.
Mike Pruitt [00:09:03]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:09:03]:
And Peggy and Gary, thanks for having us here.
Mike Pruitt [00:09:06]:
Glad to have you.
Jack Jostes [00:09:06]:
So we're here. We're. We're on our Ramblin Retreat, and we rescheduled it. Is it Debby or Betty? What was the hurricane this season? It was Debby. I met somebody at church named Betty the other day, so I think I told everyone it was Hurricane Betty, but Hurricane Debby happened. We were going to Charleston, South Carolina, but we suddenly planned to come to Nashville. So, Mike, thanks for, like, two days ago. You're like, yeah, let's do this!
Mike Pruitt [00:09:31]:
Yeah. It was divine. It was meant to be, obviously.
Jack Jostes [00:09:34]:
Absolutely.
Mike Pruitt [00:09:34]:
And you guys are safe.
Jack Jostes [00:09:35]:
We are. So we made it. I was curious, Brian, I think you had a question about the design. So we're just kind of talking about this cool landscape. We just got a tour, which we're going to share in the video podcast version. But I wanted the Ramblers, partly for our retreat, to learn more about the landscape industry and go and see a design, because we're always building websites and doing SEO and helping people show up online. But it's great to be here in person in an actual landscape. So, Brian, what were you curious about?
10:06 - Challenges and Rewards of This Large-Scale Renovation
Brian Sandrock [00:10:06]:
Yeah so my question actually is, for both Mike and the homeowners. What was the most challenging and the most rewarding aspect of the design and build project?
Mike Pruitt [00:10:16]:
I'll let you go first.
Gary Wilms [00:10:17]:
Oh, thank you. Let's do rewarding first. And obviously, it's the outcome. Beautifully done, top quality. Just everything about it just kind of worked out like we had hoped.
Peggy Wilms [00:10:34]:
I can't think of really any negative part other than just, you know, delays of weather and things like that are totally out of anyone's control. But the workers were phenomenal, polite, respectful, and everybody that Mike brought in was great. But the only negative part was that I broke my thumb because I was carrying a paver and I split my whole thumb. That was only negative for me. Yeah, I was trying to walk through all this construction because we were looking at pavers, and I tripped. Paver fella on me. Oh, 13 stitches.
Mike Pruitt [00:11:19]:
Oh, wow.
Peggy Wilms [00:11:19]:
From here to here. Yeah, that was my negative.
Jack Jostes [00:11:23]:
Wow. Brian, was that what you were thinking?
Brian Sandrock [00:11:28]:
I'll take that. That's an awesome challenge. If that was the only challenge, that's fantastic.
Peggy Wilms [00:11:33]:
There were things that they found that structurally was not right with the house. When they tore some of the stuff up that they had to go in and repair, thank goodness they did that. And we found it because down the road we could have had cracks all over the place. But those are things that were not really negative. Those are really turned out to be positives for us.
Jack Jostes [00:11:55]:
So, Mike, tell us a little bit. You had talked earlier when we were talking about design and expectation setting. So do you remember, did you actually have a conversation that was, was there a gap of a three week expectation to how long did this project take? And tell us a little bit, how do you manage that with clients?
Mike Pruitt [00:12:11]:
Yeah, that's a great question, Jack, and it can be quite interesting. Anytime you're doing an outdoor structure of any type, any type of outdoor work in general, especially with the weather here in middle Tennessee, in the Nashville area, you know, whatever the weather currently is, wait ten minutes, it'll probably change. Right. So that's always a challenge, but we try to fit things into a window. Like, October is the driest month of the year in this area. So we, knowing that ahead of time, it sort of aids in some of our decision making when it comes to these projects. But it's tremendous when you have customers as great as the Wilms to work with to begin with. So having been on the same page and being able to effectively communicate and manage their expectations to begin with, of what it's going to take.
Mike Pruitt [00:13:01]:
And customers oftentimes don't like what we have to say as far as the timelines, you know, hey, we were going to have a party Labor Day. Yeah, that's. We're not going to be done by then, you know, but we. We try our best, you know, to, you know, to meet those deadlines that we. That we set, you know, weather permitting. And Nate, our senior project manager, does a phenomenal job. He and Adam are our project manager of really taking ownership, of managing and working with the customers on what to expect as far as timelines are concerned and any changes and things that may come up.
Peggy Wilms [00:13:36]:
So, yeah, Mike was really good at that because he did not project a quick finish. He really was pretty specific, going now with weather and blah, blah, blah, and with the timeline and digging up the whole backyard. He was very good at trying to really make us understand that it was going to be a project that was going to take quite a while and that, you know, some of the stuff was going to be out of his control as far as the weather and stuff like that. So we, you know, but he was extremely diligent in that regard.
Jack Jostes [00:14:12]:
What. What are some of your favorite parts of the landscape, Peggy?
Peggy Wilms [00:14:16]:
Everything. I'm a flower girl, so, you know, we worked real hard on planting the plantings and the plants and the staging, and as far as that. But for us, it was more like his suggestions on things that just brought out the details of everything, like the cedar grout post and putting the stains and even the pavers. I mean, he suggested things that we wouldn't have even known, even think about. So that brought the whole project into a beautiful design for us that we would not have picked some of the things because we wouldn't have known any better, you know? But with his eye for detail, I just love coming out here in the mornings, sitting on my little porch with my coffee and my rocking chairs, and just enjoying the beauty of what he has designed for. I just love it.
15:17 - Serving Clients: How to Manage Expectations and Stay Honest
Robert Felton [00:15:17]:
I'm curious. It seems in this project, you were blessed. They were very accommodating and kind, and I'm curious. We're going to be doing a workshop on serving your clients. First, pleasing your clients. So not just agreeing with everything they say. And Peggy just gave a great example. But I'm curious, how do you find opportunities? Do you have some suggestions on questions where you might need to tell them that it's going to take longer or that they can't keep something that they really wanted to keep? So how do you have those hard conversations, and how do you truly serve your clients? First, just saying yes.
Robert Felton [00:15:50]:
Agreeing to that ridiculous timeline, knowing that you're not going to make it. So could you tell us a few suggestions on how you serve your clients and what questions? Maybe work to get those answers and solve those problems.
Nate Wolke [00:16:01]:
Yeah, I think being upfront with them, you know, just being real with them, you know, I'm working with a client right now. They've spent the last week trying to pick out the countertop for their outdoor kitchen. They've gone down to the. To the supply yard three times now. They say, okay, this is for sure. This is the one. And then I get a text, you know, 2 hours later, we just found another one. And they're like, you know, they're apologizing to me.
Nate Wolke [00:16:28]:
I'm like, you know, it. It's not affecting me. As long as you understand that we're not gonna be done on Friday, like originally. Now, you know, now you're two weeks from now, and as long as you understand two weeks from now, you're not yelling at me, saying, why aren't you guys done? You promised you'd be done two weeks ago. So just being real with them, saying, yeah, yeah, no problem. We can do that. There was an issue also with. They changed the material of the countertop.
Nate Wolke [00:16:56]:
No problem. We can change the material. As long as you understand that there is a price difference. I can let you know what that price difference is going to be. I can let you know the timeframe on that. And just being very upfront with them, working with them, being flexible, you know, I think if you. If you go into it and act like it's. It's a big issue or a hassle or you're annoyed that now you have to go research something else, they're gonna pick up on that.
Nate Wolke [00:17:22]:
And they were very. You could, I could hear it in his voice, like, being around the bush, like what he's trying to say, because he doesn't want to ask me to make another change. I'm like, at the end of the day, when we sign off on this project, I want you to be 100% happy with what you have and not feel like you compromised on any part of it. And that's what we're doing. That's what I'm working through with him right now, and it's worked out well. And he's supposed to be giving me a final answer today on countertops, so we still don't have it chosen, but we're getting close.
Jack Jostes [00:17:56]:
Nate, I'm curious. How many projects might you be managing at one given time?
Nate Wolke [00:18:03]:
On average right now? Probably three different projects.
Jack Jostes [00:18:06]:
Okay.
Nate Wolke [00:18:07]:
And, you know, sometimes that can be a bit of a challenge. On location, we might have a project that's an hour south and a project that's our north of Mount Juliet. So that means 2 hours in between projects. Right. So you have to, you know, plan it out, think through. Like, I knew I was going to be tied up this morning, so I stayed late with clients last night laying out trees, making sure my team had trees ready to plant this morning because I wasn't going to be able to be there. So it's a lot of time management when you're managing those different projects. On top of that, we have subcontractors.
Nate Wolke [00:18:42]:
You know, I might have a project where my team's not working, but we still have people that are representing Master’s, and I have to make sure that that's going correctly as well and manage them.
Jack Jostes [00:18:52]:
So how do you handle when you have three projects going on and one of the clients takes two weeks to decide the countertop and then maybe you need to then order that material and that material takes longer? How do you kind of manage, does that impact or how much does that impact the timeline then of the other two clients?
Nate Wolke [00:19:10]:
It certainly does. And there's times where you have to pivot. And again, as long as you're up front with your clients, and for the most part, we have good people we're working with, like the Wimsden. If you just are upfront with them, like, look, I got, I got to pull my team off for a day. I got to go finish this countertop that got delayed. You know, we'll be back tomorrow morning. What you don't want to do is not show up. And now your client saying, where are they? It's 08:00 a.m.
Nate Wolke [00:19:43]:
why aren't they here yet? 10:00 a.m. they're not here yet. Now they're having to call you, looking for you. Oh, yeah, sorry. We're not going to make it over today. We'll be back tomorrow. That's what you don't want to do. And that just is communication, time management, setting expectations, the better.
Nate Wolke [00:19:59]:
And I'm very organized person, so I'm, you know, I usually know ahead of time. I'm planning, hey, mister. So and so we're going to start your project on Monday, but on Thursday, just so you know, we won't be there on Thursday because I've got to go do this and we'll be back on that Friday, you know, and nine times out of ten that all it takes is some communication.
Jack Jostes [00:20:20]:
Yeah, I agree. Being the first to contact them if something has changed instead of them calling you is so important, especially when you're managing big projects like this.
20:31 - Rambler Takeaways: Key Lessons from the Project
Jack Jostes [00:20:31]:
So I'm curious. For the Ramblers. So we're in Ramblin Jackson land. We work remotely. We meet on Zoom. It's been really fun meeting and hanging out in person. How was it? Who wants to share something about this experience at this landscape? Did anybody learn something new? Did a word that we've used on a million websites finally make sense or anything like that?
Joe Terjek [00:20:53]:
Yeah. So I appreciate how Mike explained about drainage and went over how I had to laser the ground over there to make sure everything was even and, you know, kicking the water out that way. So it was really cool to kind of see you explain that and go in depth as well, too. So. And great job on the cedar wood here and everything, too, and how you design that and, you know, help the winds out. So, yeah, it's really insightful to be here and see a beautiful project come to life.
Rebecca Lorenzen [00:21:19]:
So, having been on one of our clients' landscapes in Massachusetts versus Tennessee, it is really awesome to see the difference in the pools, all the hardscaping, just completely different in the different environments.
Jack Jostes [00:21:35]:
What are some of the things that you notice that are different here from. Are you talking about when we did that shoot with Tory at Better View?
Rebecca Lorenzen [00:21:42]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The plant material is completely different. I know in Massachusetts, it was very. They didn't have to water things as much or anything. And this just really fits nicely into the landscape and the environment that you have kind of going around it.
22:02 - How Design Elements Change by Location
Nate Wolke [00:22:02]:
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, you know, the different landscapes, and because I've actually, in my career, I've worked in a really four very different climates. I started in the Midwest. I went to the Rocky Mountains. I lived and landscaped out on Maui for a number of years. West Coast, California, and now here. And, yeah, every. Every area, there might be one or two plants that I might recognize. But, you know, even coming here, there's a lot of new stuff. I'm like, huh? What's that? Just learning and seeing the different styles, like Colorado's and the Rockies. Landscaping there is very, very tied to the earth. Very natural.
Nate Wolke [00:22:45]:
Everything. You don't use manufactured pavers. It's all natural. Flagstone patios, boulders. It's a lot of boulders and everything. All your retaining walls are boulders. It's not manufactured stone. It's very much tied into making it blend into nature.
Nate Wolke [00:23:06]:
Very different from, like, here, where it is more, you know, we use natural boulders, natural steps here, but, you know, more man made elements as well. And then, like, you know, out in Maui, obviously very tropical out there. A lot of water features out in Maui. You know, every property we were on, some kind of water feature, some kind of waterfall, some kind of pond, koi ponds. So, yeah, to your point, it is, yeah. Every area definitely has its own elements to the landscape, and the landscapes definitely change.
Jack Jostes [00:23:40]:
The one plant that I've seen. So I did a shoot in Pittsburgh, Hadley, Massachusetts, and now here in old hickory is hydrangea. So hydrangea seems to be all over the country. Did people grow hydrangea in Hawaii?
Nate Wolke [00:23:57]:
Yep. Yep, they're there. And what's funny is a lot of plants that I know here as annuals are year round plants in Hawaii. So, like Lantana that, you know, here it's more of an annual. It'll die back in the cold there. It'll grow and bloom year round.
Jack Jostes [00:24:14]:
Well, I learned recently that mums are annual or perennials, but where I grew up in Chicago, they were an annual that you'd buy in the fall and then you'd throw them out. But I was in North Carolina and the guy was like, no, we can actually keep them all year.
Nate Wolke [00:24:32]:
Yeah, it's true. All my mums from last fall are all grow, and we planted them all out at our mailbox and they're all.
Jack Jostes [00:24:38]:
So how cold does it get here in the winter?
Nate Wolke [00:24:41]:
We'll get. You'll get a stretch, maybe usually about a week every winter, where it'll get down to zero, maybe in the minus. Yeah. And then it'll warm back up. You know, we had snow on the ground for, what, two weeks last winter? And then that's the only time we.
Jack Jostes [00:24:56]:
And your mums will survive that.
Nate Wolke [00:24:57]:
Yeah, mine did. They're growing. They got flower bubbles.
Jack Jostes [00:25:00]:
The Illinois winter starts in November and ends sometime at the end of March.
Nate Wolke [00:25:05]:
Well, and part of it is it's the deep frost that gets on the ground.
Jack Jostes [00:25:08]:
Right?
Nate Wolke [00:25:09]:
That's where. That's what's gonna kill those semi annual perennial kind of plants. Even if it's zero degrees here, your frost is only gonna get in the ground an inch or two. In Chicago, it goes 2ft deep.
25:22 - Final Thoughts: The Importance of Landscape Design
Robert Felton [00:25:22]:
I think the big takeaway that I had from this project is the importance of design. I mean, there was a lot of conversations with Peggy about just, like, the color and how it would affect the house. You mean the trim? Just talking about things they wanted to save, like the outdoor kitchen. Different elements, different plants. So you mean so many people skimp on design, they don't think it's as important. But, I mean, I think if we didn't do all this planning and there wasn't this design and there weren't these smart conversations with the client, a lot of things could have gone wrong and a lot of things wouldn't be as spectacular as this project is. So, I mean, the importance of landscape design, people kind of don't think about it. But I think that was the true reason this project was so success is you took the time, you listened, and you built, answered and asked questions.
Robert Felton [00:26:12]:
So you mean it's so easy to think, oh, why pay for design? Why do those things? But I can just see how important that is. And I'm constantly reminded, and this is another example.
Jack Jostes [00:26:22]:
All right, everyone, we hope you enjoyed this property tour and interview with one of Master's Landscape Design. So check out our show notes for a link to their website. And by the way, did you know that Ramblin Jackson does video? We'd love to help you create a video for your landscape company. So check out ramblinjackson.com/video i'll put a link in the show notes. My name's Jack Jostes and thanks so much for tuning in to The Landscaper’s Guide. Look forward to talking with you next week
Jack Jostes [00:26:49]:
Like today's video and subscribe to our YouTube channel to get upcoming videos to help you grow your Snow and Landscape company. My name is Jack Jostes and check out my free resources in the show notes and click the next video to grow your business.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: landscapersguide.com/podcast/
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: landscapersguide.com/toolbox
???? Check out Master’s Landscape Design: masterslandscapedesign.com
???? Connect with Mike Pruitt: www.linkedin.com/in/mike-pruitt-30ba8456/
???? Ramblin Jackson Video Services: ramblinjackson.com/video