Joshua Gillow [00:00:00]:
Why would I just want to have a conversation with you? Just you and I get something from it when the value is really held in the fact that others can listen in and they can learn from this as well. My goal here is to constantly be learning. We're best as students in life. If you think you're always going to be the teacher and you know better, then you are missing out big time. It's always staying humble, always staying in student and learning so much as you go. How do we build bigger projects, make more money, have our clients win and get a solution they want, and. And do it where we both feel good about coming to work each day? In the old days would see each client as a short-term relationship, right? Hey, I give you what you need. You give me what I need.
Joshua Gillow [00:00:36]:
So I give you a design or a landscape or an outdoor living space, and you give me money in return. That client is only necessary until they pay, and then once they're done, they keep moving on. That's the kind of things that this entire industry is facing and why they're at a 20% to 30% close rate, because they're still seeing it through that same lens. Are you looking to do just enough to get paid satisfied client? Or do you want your client to be standing on the rooftop telling everybody about how great it was to work for you?
Jack Jostes [00:01:01]:
You may think you're in the landscape business, but today's podcast guest shares the big idea that we're all really in the hospitality business. I'm excited to share that. Joshua Gillow, founder of Yes Express and host of the Outer Spaces (Sales Made Simple) Podcast. He'll be speaking at The Landscaper’s Summit on October 10. And in today's episode, Joshua shares a preview of his presentation and some actionable takeaways to help you deliver a better customer experience. Joshua and I weren't able to personally schedule this interview directly due to some overlapping vacation schedules. So Ramblin Jackson's Sales and Marketing Manager, Jamie DuBose, will be filling in as a guest host. Jamie, take us away.
01:49 - Joshua’s Journey: Yes Express and Sales Made Simple Podcast
Jamie DuBose [00:01:49]:
So, first of all, thank you for being here, Joshua, I appreciate you taking the time. For those who may not be familiar with you or have not heard you on some of our previous podcasts, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in the outdoor living industry and how that kind of led you to where you are today.
Joshua Gillow [00:02:07]:
Yep. Well, thank you, Jamie, for having me on, and I'm happy that we can do this behind Jack's back. I know that we have our little podcast here, which is going to be amazing. Started out with my mother. She started at age five, my age five. And she's like, we're gonna start a garden center. So I grabbed my little red wagon when I saw her selling plants, and I went out in the fields and started collecting little rocks and brought them to my customers, my parents customers, and I would. And I would look at selling them for, like, a quarter, and I was so happy when they would buy them.
Joshua Gillow [00:02:34]:
You know, as a cute kid, you're. You're really. It's easy to sell things, let's put it that way. And then I graduated up to digging out tiger lilies along the road and started bringing them in, and I was selling them for a whole dollar. Jamie.
Jamie DuBose [00:02:45]:
I was making entrepreneurs right from the gang.
Joshua Gillow [00:02:49]:
It just came natural. It's like, all right, how can I add value? How can I bring something to people? And will they pay for it and all that? So in the garden center, I never got paid to work there. I worked there all the way through age 18, and we never got paid. My brother's about 18 months younger than me, and it's just what you do in the family business, you just work six to seven days a week, and you always had food on the table and plenty of problems to solve, right? That was what it was. So at around age 18, I decided customers were coming in the garden center and asking if my brother and I would start installing things for them. And we're like, well, heck, yeah, let's do that. And so I remember the first time that a customer said to us, hey, you know what? We'll pay you $1,000 a day to come out and work. And we're like, a day? There's Jamie.
Joshua Gillow [00:03:31]:
There's seven days in a week. We've been working for seven days a week all through our entire existence, and we never got paid for it.
Jamie DuBose [00:03:39]:
So that was a pick with your parents there, don't you?
Joshua Gillow [00:03:44]:
I wouldn't take any of it back. But anyway, the point is that that's what started us out. We started a design build company. It was called Tim Barock. We did that for 15 years together as a family. And then I decided about 15 years ago to start becoming more focused in design, manage. You know, there are so many things my customers were asking for, clients were asking for that we didn't have the skills in house to build, whether it be swimming pools or decks. Like, we were hardscapers, we were landscapers.
Joshua Gillow [00:04:10]:
We did water features. We did all of those things, but we didn't have the skills in house and/or the employees in house that knew how to do that stuff. So I said, what if I created a company that was that I kind of pulled all the things that I like together and meaning that I didn't have to deal with tons of equipment and didn't have to deal with tons of overhead and all that, but ran it lean and mean and focus on a design manage model. I saw the home builders and the pool builders doing it. Why couldn't I do it? So started doing that and immediately found success in that. I'm like, holy moly, I got the best of all the worlds here. Been growing ever since then and that over those years, fast forwarding now almost 30 years in the industry between design build and design manage. Now, I just started to say, you know what? So many good mentors of mine throughout my life in the industry and out of the industry have poured into me.
Joshua Gillow [00:05:00]:
Some charged me, some didn't. And I said, you know, what would it be like to take what I've learned and be able to give back as well? So that's when I started Yes Express Sales Academy that focused more on the one thing that I struggled the most with, which was communication. I was a farm boy from Pennsylvania. I was happier just being quiet and not working than I was talking to people. And so I had to break through that seal. And I knew that all my mentors were saying, if you really want to make a difference in the world, you're going to have to learn how to communicate. And so I took that to heart and started, Yes Express to help others as well, learn what I learned over all those years and how to finally be able to communicate, which then led me to start the Sales Made Simple Podcast and be able to share those ideas with people. Because why would I just want to have a conversation with you, just you and I get something from it when the value is really held in the fact that others can listen in and they can learn from this as well.
Joshua Gillow [00:05:45]:
So why not make this as expandable as possible? So that's my story in a nutshell. And I've been very blessed and highly favored so far.
Jamie DuBose [00:05:53]:
Yes, I love that, Joshua. And I think that that's something that a lot of our audience can relate to as well. We see a lot of businesses that are family businesses that are kind of now being turned over to the next generation. And I I don't know, I just think it's really cool. I feel like it means more when it's something that is, you know, deep rooted in your family and then to have that, like you said, the bit of wanting to share that and expand, you know, knowledge and resources within the green industry. So that is awesome. So tell me a little bit about some of the companies that you work for. And I know, like I said, you've worked with a lot of different companies throughout your, throughout your career.
06:34 - Humble Learning: Growth Strategies for Snow & Landscape Companies
Jamie DuBose [00:06:34]:
What do you have? Kind of a story about something that was really impactful that you helped that landscape company kind of work through to kind of see this transformation that you help people, that you help people with.
Joshua Gillow [00:06:48]:
Absolutely. So I've been very blessed over the last five years here with, Yes Express and, and, you know, teaching and also learning so much. Jamie, I don't know everything. I will never know everything. Right. My goal here is to constantly be learning. We're. We're best as students in life.
Joshua Gillow [00:07:02]:
If you think you're always going to be the teacher and you know better, then you are missing out big time. So it's always staying humble, always staying in student and learning so much as you go. And there's so many. We've coached hundreds of companies around the country now, so blessed for that opportunity. And we see a lot of the guys come in at 1020K. Projects is an average for them, and they get stuck in that rut. Right. And they're constantly fighting on price, worried about their competitors, who's going to grab it from them, and are they going to be able to make their bills, all that kind of stuff.
Joshua Gillow [00:07:30]:
And now a big majority of them, the ones that actually want to roll their sleeves up and do the work, they're closing six figure projects now and making more money than they've ever made before. And I hear that over and over again. And it's not just the money side. It's because now they're finally working with grateful clients, clients who actually want them there, that are there to help them now, again, that's not every single one, but that's the target. That's the goal. How do we build bigger projects, make more money, have our clients win and get a solution they want, and do it where we both feel good about coming to work each day. Right. It's.
Joshua Gillow [00:08:05]:
It's so crazy because so many get so focused just on the revenue, and they don't think much about the relationship. And that's what I want to talk more about in what we're going to talk about today and also through the, uh, you know, the bigger, uh, conversation in a few weeks.
Jamie DuBose [00:08:18]:
Yeah, I love that. Yes. Focusing on the relationship versus the revenue. Like that needs to be on a t shirt.
Joshua Gillow [00:08:24]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:26 - The Sales Made Simple Podcast: Boosting Sales Through Communication
Jamie DuBose [00:08:26]:
So how does the Sales Made Simple Podcast kind of come into this? What kind of topics are you talking about on that podcast, and how does it align with the coaching that you're doing?
Joshua Gillow [00:08:35]:
Absolutely. So it was called I had a podcast. Now, for the last roughly three years, I got almost 200 episodes in, and I get to interview some really cool people around our industry, out of our industry, and talk about things like sales and mindset and business. And recently, I've refocused the podcast. After about 180 episodes, I refocused the podcast into more of the sales domain, because communication is key to all of this. If you can't communicate value to your clients, you don't know how to value stack them. You don't know how to take them through a great life effect and get a sense of why they're doing their project. You can go all day long and talk to 20 or 30 different potential customers and only end up with a handful, if that.
Joshua Gillow [00:09:13]:
That'll say yes to you. So how can we be most efficient? And that all starts with communication. So, focusing the podcast now on Sales Made Simple. Taking something that can seem so daunting, the conversation around sales, and making it much more simplified so that the men and women in our industry that are working their hands to the bone every day can learn how to work a little less and make a little more.
Jamie DuBose [00:09:33]:
I love that. And yeah, I think that sales is one of those things that it seems like it has to be so scripted and so, like, by this framework. And, you know, you have to follow these rules when, like you said, it's a conversation. It's two human beings having a conversation that is trying to lead to a mutually beneficial result. And again, I think that ties in really well with what you just said about the revenue side of it, too, is like, that's. That doesn't always have to be what's important. And if we can focus our relationships and build them through conversations, we will grow our business. So I love that.
10:08 - The Landscaper’s Summit Preview: Treating Your Business Like Hospitality
Jamie DuBose [00:10:08]:
Let's talk a little bit about your presentation coming up at The Landscaper’s Summit. It's called how to treat your landscape company like a hospitality business. And I have to admit, I was very intrigued when you sent me in your. Your session title, and I would love to hear more about that. So what challenges are you seeing landscape companies face that kind of prompted you towards wanting to talk more about this concept of treating your business like a hospitality business?
Joshua Gillow [00:10:34]:
Closing rates in our industry, on average are 20% to 30%. Right. Just think about that. That's two or three out of ten that they're going, that our hardworking brothers and sisters are going out to each and every day. They're only bringing two or three back out. They're telling their families they have so many leads to go on and all this stuff. They're barely bringing enough home to make the bills. Second is many companies don't have work.
Joshua Gillow [00:10:55]:
It's fall. And there's a lot I see in these groups that are like, how do I get more leads? How am I? I need more work. I'm running out of work. They're competing on price and losing, right? We know a competition on price is always the lowest. Price is the first one that's out of business, but it doesn't matter. They're always competing on price. They're not sure when the next project is coming in or where it's going to come from. They've got bills stacking up.
Joshua Gillow [00:11:15]:
Marketing isn't working the way they hoped it would. They're paying way too much money for new leads. And even those are barely usable, right? They're just like, I have a problem, I need new leads. They go to Facebook, they dump a couple grand a month into it, or a couple hundred bucks a month, and they're getting crap leads and chasing them all over society just to find. Just to try to find that two or three that might say yes to them and probably haggle them on price. And it's all because we're taught to think about customers and thought about relationships as short term, right? We're taught, and look, when we get our EINs from the government, right, when we say, hey, we're going to hang our shingle up, we're going to start our company, we get our EIN. I'm still waiting for my packet from the government almost 30 years later that says, here's how you run a business. Here's how you market, here's what you spend money on, here's what you don't.
Joshua Gillow [00:12:02]:
Here's a percentage. You should be, I'm waiting for that packet. The business, how to run a business packet. No, they just show you how to pay taxes. They make it real easy for that. Everything else we as business owners have to figure out ourselves. And so we're taught by looking around us, what did our fathers do? What do our grandfathers do? What are other businesses doing? What are other people that influence us do? And most of them in the old days would see each client as a short term relationship, right? Hey, I give you what you need, you give me what I need. So I give you a design or a landscape or an outdoor living space, and you give me money in return.
Joshua Gillow [00:12:34]:
And it's like horse trading, right? Flip flop back and forth. It's only, the client is only necessary until they pay. And then once they're done, they keep moving on. So that's the old way of sales and of business. And that's the kind of things that this entire industry is facing and why they're at a 20% to 30% close rate, because they're still seeing it through that same lens.
12:54 - Hospitality in Landscaping: Enhancing Customer Experience
Jamie DuBose [00:12:54]:
Oh my gosh. It's just all transactional. And that is completely opposite of where we need to or what we need to be focusing on. So how does treating your landscape business like a hospitality service, then impact the customer experience. Experience.
Joshua Gillow [00:13:08]:
First of all, for listeners out there, you need to be thinking about what role are you playing in this conversation with your clients? Are you trying to be the hero? Like the one that's always the smartest, the expert that talks over your clients, talks at your clients, already tells them what they need, what they want, and what they desire because you know best? Or are you open to becoming the guide or the detective to try to crack the case? What is the best solution for this client? How can I possibly lead them to the best result? And here's the best part, Jamie. Even if it's not something my company does, maybe I'm not. Maybe we are not the best fit for this client. And where do we guide them to? Maybe somebody else that you know that focuses on a certain specific thing. Like, for instance, if you're an outdoor living company and you don't do fence in house, that's great. Who do you know that does? And if a client calls in the front door and says, hey, I need a fence, are you saying, I don't do it, goodbye. Or are you saying, hey, I got this guy. His name's Sam.
Joshua Gillow [00:14:05]:
He does fence all day long. Go work with Sam. The client says, awesome, thank you. And they're going to then relate that success with you because you're helping them, right? So are you the guide? Are you the hero? That's number one. Second thing is, are you after just satisfying your customers? Is that your target? Or are you after creating raving fans? Which is it for you? Honestly, listeners, be honest. Are you looking to do just enough to get paid, satisfied client? Or do you want your client to be standing on the rooftop telling everybody about how great it was to work for you? That's the difference. That's how treating your business like a hospitality company is going to shift the way your clients work with you and how you see your clients as not a pay check, but an opportunity to impact and have them sell for you.
Jamie DuBose [00:14:54]:
Oh, my gosh. Well, first of all, I am a huge heroes journey fan, so I am all about this conversation. And I think that, you know, as. As I have been in the marketing industry for a long time and kind of seen the. The changes that have happened over the years, this has been one of the most impactful things that I have seen companies do differently that will help them exponentially is when you can position yourself as the guide instead of the hero. You will ultimately build relationships with people that. That are going to have a bigger impact, not just on your business, but on everyone's life. And I think that at the end of the day, like, that is a really special concept that seems simple, but also, when it's translated into what you're doing in day to day work and day to day conversations, it's really awesome.
15:45 - Building Long-Term Client Relationships in Landscaping
Jamie DuBose [00:15:45]:
So the other thing that you mentioned that I really loved, too is not just shutting the door if you can't help somebody, like, sometimes. Sometimes a no is what's best for the business. But also the more that we can expand our network and the more that we can, again, be friends with others in the industry so that I can help you and you can help me. And just, like you said, create partnerships that are not just beneficial for me or for you, but for, again, the people that we're serving. This is why I think the green industry has, like, such a special, like, such a special thing, and why that networking opportunity or that call with, you know, the other landscape company to two cities away or whatever can really make a big. A big difference for everyone. So I'm glad that you brought that up, too. So let me.
Jamie DuBose [00:16:32]:
Let's talk about an actual example, because I know, like, this. This sounds. It all sounds great, but can we walk through a typical customer interaction and how, like, doing it this way is different from doing it that way?
Joshua Gillow [00:16:45]:
So when it comes down to the old way of working with customers and thinking about how to approach, let's just say sales for this, for this matter, is to focus on coming in and explaining to the client, telling the client how great you are, being the one that has to usher that information out, say, all right, Jamie, I'm at your house. Let's just roll the place. I'm at your house, and I walk into the front door, I'm like, hey, Jamie, how you doing? I'm so glad you called. Us. I saw in your intake sheet that you want a new patio, a new seating wall, and a new fire pit out there. We do this all day long. Our fire pits, our walls, and our patios are the best. Absolutely the best by far.
Joshua Gillow [00:17:25]:
Look at our reviews. You can see others think that, too. And if you pick us to work with us, we won't be the cheapest, but we are the best. So how does that sound to you?
Jamie DuBose [00:17:34]:
That sounds great. I want the best. I'm going to use it all the time, but tell me more.
Joshua Gillow [00:17:39]:
So that's. But that's a possibility, right? Let's flip that around. That's more of the old style border room kind of. I'm the best. You should be lucky to have me in your house. Please praise the ground that I walk on. Right. But we haven't got there yet because nobody wants to talk about budget.
Joshua Gillow [00:17:53]:
You know, that's always. That's a very sacred topic to most.
Jamie DuBose [00:17:57]:
You can tell I'm in sales, too, I guess.
Joshua Gillow [00:17:58]:
Yeah, exactly. So now we can flip that around. And as I. First of all, I would want to do a lot of this work on the phone before I ever came to your house, but just to keep our. Our example consistent. So I knock on a door, I come in and we sit down. I say, all right, Jamie, so tell me about what isn't working with your backyard right now.
Jamie DuBose [00:18:19]:
Well, I don't like that there's not enough seating when I have people come over. I don't like that my kids don't have a dedicated play area where they can kind of do their thing. I also would love to spend more time outside, especially when the weather is nice. You know, we've got fall coming up. There's going to be, you know, opportunities for fire pits and roasting marshmallows with my kids. That's really important to me is spending family time together outside.
Joshua Gillow [00:18:49]:
Got it. Okay. And what you currently have outside, I see you have a deck and I see you have, like, just some plantings in the backyard. What about what you specifically have now does not work for you?
Jamie DuBose [00:19:02]:
I don't think that there is enough variety. I love plants. I do want to incorporate both, like, landscape and hardscape together. So really blending those together is really important to me. And I'm also really busy, so I want to make sure that it's maintainable and it's, you know, lower maintenance and that it's not going to. It's not going to make more work for me to do.
Joshua Gillow [00:19:26]:
Got it. Totally. So let's take a look. Right now, you mentioned that you want a dedicated space for your kids, a kids area for that you want to spend more time in nature, and that you're also looking for a space that's really going to work for you. Did I get that right?
Jamie DuBose [00:19:43]:
Yeah, yeah.
Joshua Gillow [00:19:44]:
Got it. So of those three, which is your top priority for this project?
Jamie DuBose [00:19:49]:
Probably the area for my kids to make sure that they have what's going to make them happy.
Joshua Gillow [00:19:55]:
Got it. So I'm going to sidebar there for a second, get out of our role play real quick for the listeners. Do you see how I just took the three things that she gave us and got it focused on the most highest priority for her? This is key in a conversation. Now, let's reflect back on how I came into this conversation from the boiler room idea where I'm the best. I tell you what you need. I don't ask you any questions. And I completely flip it now to a scenario where I'm listening and I'm asking with questions. I'm being a detective.
Joshua Gillow [00:20:23]:
I'm trying to crack the case here and try to get a sense of what's in place, what's not working, and how she could potentially, we haven't even gotten into painting the future and figuring out what that looks like yet, but right now, we've now narrowed it down to having a dedicated kids area is number one. And if you notice, it's exactly the words that she mentioned. I'm not saying a space for the kids. I'm not changing those words. She chose, out of millions of words, she chose those three words for how she's trying to explain what she wants. So if I, as the, as the guide, am just trying to put my own agenda in there and said, oh, you just want a big open lawn area, you may or may not want that. You see how assumption creeps in and it kills the entire conversation. So by flipping it back and being very mindful of what you pick and what you're saying in your exact choice of words, it's important.
Joshua Gillow [00:21:10]:
How does it feel to you to hear those words back?
Jamie DuBose [00:21:14]:
I was going to say that, that really, the mirroring is very helpful because I know you're listening to me. You're not trying to paint the picture of what you think that I want. You're listening and you're asking more questions. And so what I'm hearing is kind of one small thing that you can do to get started with, like, trying this out is, first of all, just ask. Like, stop thinking that you know everything about your prospect before they even tell you what they want you to know. And. And the more that you can, again, just reflect back to them, shows them that you're truly engaged in the conversation.
Joshua Gillow [00:21:52]:
So, question for you as our potential, you know, client here, would you be more likely to want to work with a group that has more of a direct, hey, I'm the best. This is how we do it. I've got all the ideas for you. I don't have time to listen to your questions and deal with your stuff, even though I know the guys aren't saying that out there. But the reality is that's what it feels like to the client. Or are you more likely likely to work with someone who slows the process down, asks questions like this and helps you both figure this out together? Which one do you think is going to be more valuable to you? Which one would you pay more for?
Jamie DuBose [00:22:26]:
Yeah, option B. Absolutely. And even if I know, if I know, like I said in option one, that, like, yeah, I'm, I'm fine paying, like, you know, budget. My budget is, is probably bigger than what you may think because you didn't ask me in option one. But you said you were the best. I personally know that I like to choose the best options, but option two is going to, again, give me a partner in the project, not just somebody trying to sell me something.
Joshua Gillow [00:22:56]:
Exactly. Exactly.
22:57 - Join us at the 5th Annual Landscaper’s Summit!
Jack Jostes [00:22:57]:
Are you ready to transform your landscape business and smoke the competition? Join us at the 5th Annual Landscaper’s Modern Sales and Marketing Summit on October 10, 2024, where you'll get to hear from the industry's best, including Joshua Gillow, founder of Yes Express. Joshua is revolutionizing the landscape industry with his hospitality centric approach to customer service for landscape professionals. In his session titled how to treat your landscape company like a hospitality business, Joshua will challenge you to rethink what business you're really in. Spoiler alert. It's no longer just about service. So what are you waiting for? Register today for the 5th Annual Landscaper’s Summit. See a link in our show notes, or go to landscapersummit.com and gain exclusive access to Joshua Gillow's session. That's landscapersummit.com. sSe you there. All right, now back to the show.
23:57 - The Power of Asking Questions: Key to Understanding Clients
Joshua Gillow [00:23:57]:
Now, do you see what's behind me on my, my TV? You know what it says? What does it say?
Jamie DuBose [00:24:02]:
Serve. I love it.
Joshua Gillow [00:24:06]:
Yes, serve, not sell. That's right. It's, that's our focus, guys. That's the focus. It's not about trying to sell them because if your client feels like a piece of meat that you're trying to buy or trying to, you know, get money from, they're going to feel that right away. But when you go in there with a much more open heart and you say, look, I am here to ask great questions and to be the detective and crack this case wide open because there may be possibility that I'm not the right fit for this project. And it's okay if you aren't. We don't. Not every client is a good client, so.
Joshua Gillow [00:24:32]:
And not good for us. And what we do with the gifts that God's given us in order to serve, we may not be that right person, and that's okay. But maybe we are. And if we are, we're going to make sure that we go deep to understand exactly what drives Jamie and to know exactly what she needs a space to, how it needs to perform, and also how comfortable she needs to be outside to engage it all the time. Because if you build, like, especially designers listening out there, if you build a space that looks incredible on Instagram, I mean, it is just shared all over. It is just amazing to look at. Absolutely picture perfect, but nobody uses it where the clients don't feel comfortable in the furniture because it looks good in the design, but it feels like you're sitting on a cinder block. Like, nobody is going to actually utilize that space.
Joshua Gillow [00:25:14]:
And for us, our main function is to make sure we're creating spaces that are not only useful, but also comfortable, because then the families are going to use them more. And then when they bring their friends around, they're like, hey, look how comfortable this space is. They actually thought about all these details. They're like, well, none of the other guys came out. They all told me what I should have. This guy actually stopped for a moment, actually asked me questions, and I found out when I said, here's another one. Let's just roleplay this one quick for the listeners. So, Jamie, we're going to go into this with a little bit of a preconceived idea here just to help with the listeners and make this quick.
Joshua Gillow [00:25:44]:
So let's just assume you just said that you wanted an outdoor space that was comfortable. Just say that to me and we'll. And we'll move forward.
Jamie DuBose [00:25:51]:
Yeah. So I'd really like an outdoor space that's comfortable.
Joshua Gillow [00:25:54]:
Got it. So, listeners, if we stop right there and we start putting our own spin on that, we start saying, okay, for me, the designer comfortable means lounge chairs. It means, you know, nice deep seating. It means, you know, extra pillows on the couch or whatever it might mean you're putting. You're assuming what she means. All right, now we're gonna get back into this. So, Jamie, you mentioned that, uh, you wanted a space that's comfortable outside. What does comfort look like for you outside?
Jamie DuBose [00:26:27]:
Well, I have a lot of neighbors that are really close to me, and during, you know, like, I. If I'm outside, I want to be able to enjoy my space without feeling like people can see me or, you know, be in their two story house looking out over my. Over my fence. So I really, you know, privacy is really important to me, and I. Especially with my kids and everything like that, I want to make sure that, you know, we're all comfortable being outside.
Joshua Gillow [00:26:56]:
Got it. So, sidebar, listeners, did she say anything about furniture? Think about it. Our minds go directly to the furniture. Possibly her mind goes to. I feel like people are seeing me. They're watching me, looking over my fence. Did you hear that? She wants privacy. Comfort for her is privacy.
Joshua Gillow [00:27:14]:
It's not about the furniture yet. It will be about the furniture soon. But a higher priority is privacy. So, I could spend days on this exact kind of, you know, back and forth role play, but this is what our industry is missing, because we want to assume things because we're too busy. We're too busy to slow it down and to see less customers per week, per month, per year, but go deeper with each one of them, because once we do, I hope the listeners can feel this. Once they do, you go from that focusing on revenue to focusing on that relationship, going from trying to be transactional to being transformational. That's the difference in profitability right there. That's the difference in getting away from a competitive model where you're constantly chasing the cheapest price.
Joshua Gillow [00:27:55]:
It's when you slow it down and you actually care and ask good questions. And I know not all of us are wired to be able to do this. Hell, when I was in early days of my business, I didn't know how to do this. Like, I was the quiet guy. I was just like, hope my designs sell to work is, I can say the least, I possibly can. But it's over time, learning, having mentors, having coaches grow. I mean, it has been one heck of a journey. But getting to a point now where I can finally slow it down and ask questions and be totally cool.
Joshua Gillow [00:28:20]:
Here's another good one. Be totally cool. Saying something, asking a question, and then just leaving silence right there is. There's something about poising and pacing your words, working on your tonality that really sets the stage for a great conversation, relationship. If you're just trying to fill space silence with sound all the time, you're doing yourself a disservice. So silence is golden. When you ask a question, you let it lie and let the client respond. They know it's their time to talk.
Joshua Gillow [00:28:50]:
They know it. So I know we kind of got off topic a bit here, but I wanted to share it with people, and hopefully they can get some value from this.
Jamie DuBose [00:28:58]:
Yeah, I think that was a great, a great role play, too, because I think what's coming up for me is something that, you know, could be actionable for someone listening is don't be afraid to invoke sensory into your questions. So what am I seeing? What do you want to see here? You know, feel like, how. How do you want to feel? And I would imagine that is something that they may not be as comfortable with at first, but again, as the, as the prospect, talking to somebody who I'm about to pay, you know, thousands upon thousands of dollars to for this wonderful outcome that I want. I want to know that we're in alignment with those sensory elements as well. And when you were talking about the couch cushions and all of that. Yeah, it's. That's such a great point to remember, especially in outdoor living.
Joshua Gillow [00:29:48]:
The biggest thing, listeners is don't assume, because it's built right in their word, you make an asset of you and me. So don't assume. And it's something that men specifically do. Well, we don't want to ask the questions or take the time, because we want. We know what we know. We're professionals. We've been doing this forever. We know the right path forward, but honestly, you don't.
Joshua Gillow [00:30:06]:
You might know how to do it, but you don't know what to do yet. And that's the thing. That's exactly what we teach in our sales courses, is how to ask better questions, how to systemize this, how to do this so that everyone in your team could do this. Imagine having a team that was always asking questions and the clients were just opening up left and right. It's amazing when they open up their hearts, how they open up their checkbooks, too.
Jamie DuBose [00:30:29]:
Such a good point. I know I do.
Joshua Gillow [00:30:32]:
Yep.
Jamie DuBose [00:30:33]:
Oh, my gosh. That's. Yeah, those are great examples, Joshua. I love. I love hearing that. And again, it's really helpful to hear the back and forth, because that's how I learned best, too, so. Well, I have to ask you this question, especially with the session title being how to treat your landscape company like a hospitality business, which I know is the title for very specific reason, especially having done this interview with you.
30:49 - Stay Sharp: Learning, Events, and Growing Your Business
Jamie DuBose [00:30:49]:
But I know there are going to be people listening or thinking about registering for The Landscaper’s Summit that are going to say, but I'm in landscaping, not hotels. How is this going to apply to them?
Joshua Gillow [00:31:09]:
Well, before I answer that, I'm going to share a short story. So when I first started out in business again, I was from the cornfields of Pennsylvania. Very small minded, just chasing dollars, just trying to make ends meet and constantly having not enough money, let's put it that way. And then I met my wife, and my wife is from Germany, and she's a chiropractor. And she started to take me to these chiropractic seminars, and I was like, what the heck is this? All these crazy woo woo people talking about positivity and talking about life force and God and all this stuff. And I'm like, well, these people are like, what are they smoking? Like, I don't get this right. It's just way out there for me. It was a huge mix, right? But as I sat there in the room and would listen to them talk about business, talk about serving, instead of just selling people stuff that was all baked in there, I didn't even know it at the time, but going to those seminars, I would sit there and I'd say, you know what? Instead of me sitting here just kind of being, like, bored, not knowing what's going on, I'm like, what if I just shifted the words when they said chiropractic, I said landscaping.
Joshua Gillow [00:32:07]:
What if I just shifted it? Would it work? Would it work? So it was a little game that I played when I sat in there and I would adjust it. So I was like, yeah, I'm never going to be a chiropractor. I'm blessed that my wife is and that she serves so many people and is awesome, but at the same time, it's like, I'm never going to be a lance or I'm never going to be a chiropractor. What if this kind of an idea, this kind of framework would work for landscapers? Because that's what I was back then, right? I didn't do a lot of outdoor living. It was basic landscape stuff. Um, and when I did that, I started to apply it and started to change everything, you know? And what I realized, if you keep adding the same ingredients to the same recipe, you're going to get the same result. But when you get a new cookbook and you start looking through it with a different set of lenses, now you can go from making that chicken parm like you've always made it to making something that'll blow your mind, but it's still chicken parm, right? So it's still. It's being able to see it through there and realize you don't have all the answers.
Joshua Gillow [00:32:56]:
And that others that have been through this, this journey of life before you, they have things to teach. And again, being that student, right, that's what it is. Being a humble student your whole life and never feel like you know everything, because you certainly do not. The second you think you do, then you've shut the world off. But if you stay a humble student, everything changes. So I still go to those chiropractic seminars, and I still listen and I still twist it. I still do, because there's so much to be learned in there. Same like if you're reading a book and the book is about some other type of business, maybe it's about some, some tech company.
Joshua Gillow [00:33:28]:
And you read through, like, I'm not a tech company, I'm a landscape company. So none of that stuff really applies to me. Bullshit. There are so many things to learn in that book that you could apply. You just have to have some creativity. And I know our industry is full of very, very creative people. So it's about breaking that wall down and thinking like, oh, they're talking a language I don't understand. It doesn't apply to me.
Joshua Gillow [00:33:46]:
It does apply to you. And there's so many nuggets out there to learn if you're just willing to open up.
Jamie DuBose [00:33:50]:
Yes, I agree. And that's why, you know, it is so important to look at other industries and we can learn some of the biggest business lessons from looking at how other completely different industries are doing things and take that back. And, yeah, I've seen that time and time again for myself. I've seen that time and time again, you know, for other clients. And, and it's true. It is definitely true. We're never stop. We're going to never stop learning or we shouldn't have.
Jamie DuBose [00:34:15]:
The mindset of never wanting to stop learning, I think, is what it. Yeah. What it comes down to.
34:25 - The First Step to a Hospitality Mindset in Your Landscape Business
Jamie DuBose [00:34:25]:
We have talked about a lot of, I just want to pause here and give people, you know, they're like, where do I even start? What is one actionable step that they can take right now to start shifting their business approach towards more of this hospitality mindset?
Joshua Gillow [00:34:37]:
Okay, so the simplest path forward is to slow down, pre qualify your leads coming in, and start asking better questions. That's really what it is. It's going. Asking yourself. The deep, hard question is, are you driven by only the dollar, or do you really want to have a bigger purpose in life and serve other people and the gifts that God's good God has given you? Um, and then if that answer is yes, you want more, then I would. The first step would be to slow down, to start looking at your list of leads that you're going to go out to and think about how, what kind of questions can you ask them in order to make sure you're going out to meet the right one. You know, with the average of 20% to 30% closing in our industry, um, there's a lot of room for improvement. And my ultimate goal in all of this is to help our industry reach a 75% or higher closing rate.
Joshua Gillow [00:35:29]:
That is my ultimate goal. That's what God's put in my heart. To do, and it's not because I want to be famous for doing it. It's nothing about that. It's the fact that I struggle for so many years to close 20 and 30%. And once I learned how to close and we're closing now, in my design manage practice, 100% of our design leads and over 90% of our construction leads. And the reason why I don't say that to, to, uh, try to impress you. I say it to impress upon you the idea that when you slow things down and you start working with the right clients and you know how to pre qualify and ask questions and take them on a journey, kind of like we're working on here, it changes the game.
36:00 - Tracking Success: KPIs & Referrals to Boost Your Business
Jamie DuBose [00:36:00]:
Yes. Oh, that's a great answer. That is such a great answer. And I wholeheartedly agree. So I would, I would be remiss though, if we didn't set a goal but then not have a way to measure success. So how can companies start measuring success after they've implemented these changes? Like maybe are there some KPI's or what, what should they be watching to see? Oh wow. This is working aside from the close rate because I think that one is like, that one makes total sense. But what maybe are some other points that they should be looking out for?
Joshua Gillow [00:36:36]:
Yeah. So thats an excellent question and actually leads into what ill be talking a lot about when I come in with Jack here in a couple of weeks. Its what we call LSR, its lead sale referral. Our ultimate goal is to bring a lead in the top of, just imagine a, a triangle at the very top is the lead coming in the right side, bottom is sale and the left side is going to be referral our goal is to bring as many leads as we can in create sales from them through service and then with them becoming raving fans, create a referral. So that whole system keeps working and working and working. Right. So it's a very simple system that I'll teach there about how to track that KPI, to track the leads coming in to the sales going out and the referrals coming back in that whole system. And that's a very simple thing for any business owner to be able to track as well.
Joshua Gillow [00:37:23]:
And if you have, I'm giving a little bit of, a little bit of a teaser here. So if you have ten leads coming in and you're only selling two or three industry average and you have possibly one referral from that, I'm going to be generous, one referral from that, that entire system, think about it. How efficient is that with your time and with your resources? If you have ten coming in, two to three sales and maybe one referral.
Jamie DuBose [00:37:49]:
Dang, theres so much opportunity though. Yeah, so much.
Joshua Gillow [00:37:52]:
There is more opportunity, but its a matter of looking at it on a chart that way and say okay, how do I, we know why? How do I go from ten leads coming in to maybe eight or nine, seven, eight or nine becoming sales? What is missing? Thats the bigger question. What am I not doing? So is it bad leads? Let's just assume they're working with you guys. It's probably not bad leads. Right. They're good leads coming in. So now it's like what are we not doing as a company to demonstrate, not tell, but demonstrate our value? What is it? So if it's, again, if you got ten coming in and you've got seven or eight, let's just say nine for craziness, right. Seven, eight or nine leads coming in or leads turning in the sales, the difference between that is something and I'm going to get deep into that in our, in our talk with Jack. I don't want to get there too far, but the guys, that one's listening now I'm just going to try to give you a little bit of a cliffhanger.
Jamie DuBose [00:38:46]:
Absolutely.
Joshua Gillow [00:38:47]:
Yeah. And then it also goes from sale to referral. So if you have those say, let's just call it eight sales out of ten leads, how many referrals are you getting? And there's different strategies. You plug into these different gaps in order to make sure that you can increase the likelihood of that lead turning into a sale. And a lot of its systems and processes, we'll go through that and then also how do you take a sale to referral? Because when they're a referral now, they're becoming a raving fan. Jamie, if that's our focus as a business, to create a ten, a ten and a ten, ideal world, I know that's crazy. But ideal world, if that is our target, we need to figure out where our deficits are. Where are we not showing up as a company to our clients in order to be able to bring them all through that? Oh, I know listeners are probably thinking like, that's impossible.
Joshua Gillow [00:39:33]:
Ten leads coming in, ten sales, ten referrals. I get that sounds crazy, but you've got proof.
Jamie DuBose [00:39:38]:
Like, like I said, you've worked with like hundreds of landscape companies, outdoor living companies. Like this is a proven process. This is a proven system. And what I'm hearing is that when they register and attend your session at The Landscaper’s Summit, they are going to have what they need to get started on that path to 75-80% close rates.
Joshua Gillow [00:39:58]:
That is correct. If you are listening and you're like, hey, I want to make this change. I want to make this shift. You can always start with how you see the entire process. Why are you here? What are you doing? And start with that. And realize that if you aren't focusing on building relationships and you're only focusing on revenue, then you will always be fighting price in the battlefield. Once you focus on a relationship, the price becomes whatever it is.
Jamie DuBose [00:40:20]:
Let's go get 75% close rate. Like I'm here for it. I think it's great and I just love that that you are. You are doing so much in this direction for the green industry. So thank you again so much for being here, Joshua. I am thrilled. I can't wait to hear more. Like I said, October 10th and we'll see everybody then.
40:42 - Final Thoughts and Episode Wrap-Up
Jack Jostes [00:40:42]:
Treating your landscape company like a hospitality business is a key strategy to adapt to increase your sales referrals and retention, which is why I invited him to speak. So save your seat at landscapersummit.com and see our show notes for a link to that, as well as Joshua's Website. If you enjoyed this conversation, make sure you like this video and subscribe to get weekly sales, marketing and leadership content to grow your Snow and Landscape Business. My name is my name's Jack Jostes and I look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper’s Guide.
Jamie DuBose [00:41:23]:
The other thing that I love that you said too was, hold on, I just lost my train of thought. Oh my gosh. I was going to say, okay, well, we'll obviously edit this out.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: landscapersguide.com/podcast
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: landscapersguide.com/toolbox
????️???? Register for The 5th Annual Landscaper’s Summit: landscapersummit.com
???? Connect with Joshua Gillow on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshua-gillow-04ba89a7/
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????️ Tune into the Sales Made Simple Podcast: salesmadesimplepodcast.com