All right, everyone. Welcome to the landscaper's guide today. I'm excited to interview Tommy Cole. Tommy is the vice president of McFarlin Stanford, which he was just telling me is like the back office of every landscape company. Um, Tommy, I've gotten to meet you and many of your partners in McFarlin Stanford over the past few years, where both members of the Texas nursery landscape association and N a L P um, it's been, it's been great getting to know you. What do you mean though? What, what is McFarlin Stanford and what do you mean that you're the back office of every landscape company?
Tommy Cole
You know, that's a great question. You know, what we always sort of tend to tell the story is landscapers are great at building stuff, right? Installation, making things pretty mowing, taking care of properties. What the trick is, is they're not well trained or diverse in the back office. And what back office means is financial, right? How to read a P and L statement, right? How to, how to read the books correctly, how to do office, um, administration, how to do sales, how to do operational, how to manage a team, um, how to lead a team, lot of leadership skills, right? We're great at the green stuff, making it pretty, but what about the stuff that we're just, we're just not really good at. We're good at getting our hands dirty and, uh, making a product, but what about the backside? And so McFarlin Stanford offers a lot of services.
Um, we head up a large, uh, peer group. Uh, we've got more than, we've got 10 peer groups across the country, 10 to 12 business owners in each group. We do a lot of private coaching, uh, for over 300 companies in the us. We also do bookkeeping for small companies. So I'll handle all the books. Uh, we also do recruiting, so we're recruit management staff and above, uh, for your company. Um, and that's kind of a nutshell. We have the ability to have HR services, uh, part of our piece, we have valuations if you're looking to buy or sell a company or just want ask for a loan, right. Um, mergers and acquisitions is, is pretty good. So, so everything, that's the back office without installing shrubs and, and mowing grass.
Jack Jostes
And, and what is McFarlin Stanford? Are those like, is that your name or, I don't think it is right now. I've met, met you and some of your partners. So tell me that just quick history of, of the firm and, and the name.
The Story of The McFarlin Stanford Name
Tommy Cole
Yeah. We're, we're not a law firm, right? It sounds very, uh, it sounds like that, uh, uh, Jason and Jim, Jim Calli and Jason new are the founders of McFarlin Stanford Uh, Jim lives on McFarland street and Jason, uh, lives on Stanford. And so they came together and say, Hey, let's just get something together. That's not, uh, has the word landscape in it. Right. We're gonna be able to help, you know, we're gonna be able to coach landscape companies, but let's sort of change things up and it just happened that sort of thing.
Jack Jostes
I love it. Yeah. It, it, it does sound kind of like a law firm. I, I thought that actually, when I heard your name the first time at TNLA, um, well today we're here to talk about really important and interesting topic, uh, which is outbound recruiting.
Why You Can’t Just Sit Around And Wait For New Employees
So we've, we've talked on our show, uh, before about the importance of marketing and some of the things you need to have on your website, and many employees are searching online for jobs, or they're getting referrals, um, you know, by and large landscape companies. Let me know if you agree, are, are mainly gonna find their employees through their current employees. And they're, you can't always just sit around and wait for somebody to find you online or to be referred by a friend. And that's where this idea of outbound recruiting comes in. So, uh, tell us a little bit about what is outbound recruiting and what are some of the ways that we can do it.
Tommy Cole
Yeah. You know, the phrase of, you know, Hey, we need some people we'll just put a now hiring sign, right. And the front of our building, and guess what happens? All these people come coming in, right. They're just gonna knock on the door and they're gonna show up. Uh, those days are long gone, right? Um, at the end of the day, you always have to be hiring. Even if you think you're staff, you've gotta be constantly looking for people. Um, whether it's, you're in growth mode, whether someone leaves like you've got to be hiring, um, you know, and, and your team needs to know that, right. It's not just the owner that is looking at their organization chart. Does every team, neighbor, neighbor, um, know the importance of new people, whether it be the field staff management and above whatever you're always hiring, no matter what I think that's, that's a big takeaway right now is, is we're in the service industry.
People servicing people at the end of the day. Um, and so, uh, we need great employees to run our business. Um, and, and the employees are actually the biggest asset, uh, to an organization. It's not the equipment, you know, it's not the clients, it's the, it's the people. And so we're always looking and you have to get into that mindset that you're always recruiting. You're always looking, um, for people, it's not something that you think about every Friday morning at eight o'clock and you spend an hour on it, right. It's, it's a daily task to be recruiting constantly.
Always Be Recruiting: Keep Positions Open On Your Website So People Can Apply
Jack Jostes
Yeah. It, it is. Um, you know, and one, one of the things that I do with my own staffing needs is I keep positions open on our website, or at least we're always accepting applications. And we'll note on there that, you know, this position is currently filled and we invite you to apply. And I, I get a lot of people who apply that, um, one of whom has almost worked with me for two years, that applied. And then I think it was six months later, we ended up hiring them. And so that's one way that you can kind of always, always be doing that. And then sure. Some people are actively looking and they're gonna get a job offer next week and they're gonna take it. But what are, so what are the, what are some of the ways that, that you can proactively be recruiting? How do you find people? How do you connect with them? What do you say to 'em right? Where, yeah. Where, you know, where do you find them? Especially for landscape companies.
Tommy Cole
Yeah. Good point. I I've got a list. I've got a handful written down for you. Um, you know, where do you find them? I think you hit the nail on the head earlier where you said a, a referral, like team members that are already in your organization. They know people, they have friends, right? They have family, uh, what, a better way to have someone in your staff to refer somebody.
Cash Referral Bonus Programs
So the, the hot topic now with, with all of our, a lot of our coaching, uh, uh, clients and peer group members is a referral bonus program. Mm-hmm right. You refer somebody, we will pay you for that. Um, and a lot of times that happens in cash, a, a cash referral bonus program. You just bring someone and refer 'em in here and they get hired. The day you get hired, here is a hundred bucks cash.
Tommy Cole
Here you go. And you present that in front of the team. And they're like, wow, that's amazing. Like if I get a hundred bucks now, and then you, you spread out those, if, if, if that person sticks for another, you know, 60 days, it's another 300 bucks. If, if it's another 120 days, it's another 300 bucks. And at the end of the year that staff member could get a thousand bucks cash. Like that is the ultimate referral to bring on team members. Right. Um, you know, the back history to that, you gotta make sure you got a great organization, right? It's gotta be a great place to work. The culture has to be great. They have to be excited to work for the company. So that referral program is, has been a huge win. Um, you know, I wrote down here community, and oftentimes we, we, we post stuff on, uh, on the internet, right?
Become A Member of Your Employees’ Communities
Tommy Cole
Hoping and praying someone, uh, jumps on our fishing line and we set the hook. Right. But you kind of gotta go fishing, right. You have to go physically go out there and it's in your local community. I, I wrote down like local churches, right. In, in the neighborhoods of, of where a, a lot of the people that, uh, where they live, right. It's intramural sports teams, soccer, baseball, volleyball, there's things that happen in small communities are like, that's, that's the people we want. It's, uh, high schools in the area. I mean, what a better way to, to get in front of high school kids and saying landscape is an actual career. You could be here for 30 years and retire, um, with our organization. And a lot of high school people don't know that they're like, oh, you're just pushing a mower. No big deal.
I don't wanna do that. But there's so many avenues on a landscape company to work for. Um, you know, the last is professional recruiters, right. And, uh, you know, McFarlin Stanford does that. Um, I, I, I think it's like a, you know, two pronged approach, your organization needs to be actively approaching, you know, local communities, uh, uh, uh, reaching out constantly with team members, but it's not bad to have a professional recruiter also looking for people, right. It's, it's multiple sets of eyes on it. Constantly. If, if, if, if staffing your organization is your number one priority, why not have the two-pronged approach? Right. So the best thing about professional recruiting services is you only pay when they find someone, right. So why not hire them? Look for people. They've got a huge network, a across a community or geographic region. People are moving all the time. People wanna look for something better, hire them, you find the right person. Then you pay, you, pay them for this for, for, for locating it. So that's kind of like, sort of top four, you know, is also universities, right? Local universities with horticulture programs, landscaping, contracting programs, um, you know, those people are always looking for something right. When they come outta college, right. What, a better way to get them into your system and, and develop with a good team. Those are some of the, the top ones. I've how to find people.
Jack Jostes
Well, I, and I, I, I like what you said about the cash referral bonus program and how you have it staged over time and recommending that people pay in front of the team, right. Saying, Hey, Tommy, thanks so much for referring Larry. Um, you know, here's a hundred bucks and, and then, wow. So, so you were saying a thousand dollars, is that, yeah, typically what you'd advise a client to, to pay out in a, in a cash, um, referral bonus program per hire.
Tommy Cole
Absolutely. Uh, that that's nothing think about the value of a team member coming on board to your team. Mm-hmm, what a thousand dollars means that is absolutely kind of pocket change at the end of the day. Right? Sure. Now, now the person that brought that employee on board is excited, cuz he referred a friend, that friend that came on, board's excited. Right. And so a thousand dollars is really nothing. If, if, if employees are your number one asset in an organization, that to me is it's not that much money. Right.
Jack Jostes
Well, yeah. And, and um, I have surveyed landscapers. I have run masterminds. I've talked with a lot of people. Um, I actually, I have some note cards here where I wrote down, I did a mastermind and I asked people, how much is it costing you per, per year? Not being staffed. These were ranging in, in revenue, the, the firms, but some of 'em were $200,000. Um, one person was a million dollars, uh, in, in, in work when they didn't get their H two B BS that because they were understaffed, they couldn't service a million dollars in sales. So yeah, finding a thousand dollars makes a lot of sense. I, I sometimes hear people, I think they're, they're way low balling it on the, on the, on the cash incentive for that.
Present The Cash Bonuses In Person In Front Of The Team!
Tommy Cole
Totally get it, you know? And, and, and the best part is doing it in person. Right. I mean, take the initiative to get the cash right. And present it in person mm-hmm is such a grander effect in saying we'll deposit a hundred dollars in your bank account. Oh yeah. But max, you know, minus the taxes and all that, it's really like $82. Yeah. But you don't really see it. You, you, you, you just, you don't see it, but taking home a hundred dollars, bill is a whole different story.
Right. I, I agree. So I, I, I actually send my staff a hundred dollars bills, uh, for their different things. And, uh, when I go to the bank, I ask for the Christmas $100 bills and they always laugh, but I always get 'em. And then there's something about a $100 bill, um, that it's fun too, to have it. And then you go and use it on something. One thing, some, I haven't looked into this too far, but I heard that if you buy those visa gift cards, that that's actually then a business expense and it's not, it's not considered payroll, so you can write it off.
Tommy Cole
Yeah. I, where, you know, I, I, I, in my opinion, it's kind of like, it's another piece of plastic to hold onto that can get lost, right? Yeah. Like who many, how many times do we have gift cards? And you're like, man, I got a gift card from so and so, and I can't find it, but you're like, it's somewhere, it's like $50, but, but if it was a cash bill, it, it just means so much. And we found so much success over, across the entire country with that. It just, it, you know what that does, it just improves the, uh, the culture of the company. Right, right. Um, it, it, it, and, and everyone has a culture at the end of the day. It just depends on if it's good or bad and that, that makes it a good culture. Right?
Create An Apprenticeship Program With Your Local High Schools
Jack Jostes
Sure. Yeah. And the, the, the next point that you talked about with community, I wanted to share a story of client and mine, who who's actually in NS, Texas, their scapes. And they created an apprenticeship program with the local high school. So they work with the gym and they donate the materials where kids can learn horticulture. They learn, they basically make hanging baskets that are then sold at the nursery. But in addition to that, they created an apprenticeship. And I just interviewed, actually, when I was down in Texas, when I went out with you all, um, I interviewed this young woman, she was 17. She went through the apprentice program and now she's gonna work at scapes full time. Um, oh, wow. And then they're working with the association, the TNLA to get her certified. So there's just a lot of different ways. I think that you can get involved. And then Casey, the owner of the company goes and speaks at the high school. Right. So he goes and speaks. A lot of high schools are looking for small business owners to come in and talk about what do you do? What's it like to be an entrepreneur? And the whole idea that yeah, you can have a legitimate career in, in the green industry is something that, that people need to hear. And I, I think it's a, it's a great way.
Speak At High Schools and Community Programs To Share The Green Industry Career Path
Tommy Cole
Yeah. Most people don't know they can make it a career. Right. They just, they just don't know. They just need to be in front of someone that, you know, has a business and that can teach 'em, you know, man, you can make, you can, you can do anything from maintenance to fertilizer application to installation, to you could even be a fleet manager of, or a mechanic. You could be a mechanic in the landscape industry. Um, it's just fascinating to see, uh, what, what a, in the best thing about in the landscape world, you can make instant gratification changes. Right? Right. Now you have an instant impact. It's, it's a green industry. Um, it's very popular. It's, it's, it's a growing industry. Um, it's outdoors, which is great. Right. You don't get to sit behind a desk every day. It's attractive. You get to, you get to work with your hands and build, you know, some great stuff.
Jack Jostes
Absolutely. Yeah. It's an exciting industry. And so for people listening, I hope the apprenticeship, or getting involved with the high school and speaking, I mean, that's, that's a really great way to connect and, and spread the word. One of, one of the things.
Can Landscapers Use LinkedIn For Employee Recruiting?
So I went to the grow conference, Marty Grinder's grow conference, and a bunch of the McFarlin Stanford team was there. And I met, um, one of the recruiters from your team. And then he introduced me to somebody who had been recruited. And he had just, he, he, his story, this guy, he was, he probably had 20, 30 years of experience in the green industry and was moving to Florida. I can't remember the guy's name, but he was moving from North Carolina to Florida. And you all helped him find his new job. Yeah. And he said that you all connected with him on LinkedIn. And so I was curious about, you know, proactively finding people like, is LinkedIn relevant for finding landscape employees or,
Tommy Cole
Yeah, it is, uh, it's relevant. It's not the end all be all source. Right, right. Not everybody's on LinkedIn. Um, a lot of people are on LinkedIn. Um, you know, some are on it, but they might not ever use it. Um, you'll find a lot of people will use it when they're like, I need to change jobs, so I'm gonna get it on LinkedIn. But yeah, we do find a lot of candidates on LinkedIn. Um, we also find a lot of candidates just meeting people, right. Meet someone that meets someone that REPL, you know, so the person that went to Florida got placed, he knows a friend in the industry. He knows another friend in the industry refer them refer. Right. And it just multitudes after that. I mean, at the end of the day, landscape's a small industry. Uh, you know, a lot of people take the agree, take the Dallas Fort worth market. I mean, everyone knows everyone. Um, totally. So LinkedIn is great. I, I, I recommend if you are, you know, seeking a better opportunity or if you're moving, you always need to keep your LinkedIn profile up to date, keep it professional. Right. Um, go on there and search companies, look at, look at, 'em see what they're doing, see what they're building like their stuff. The more traction you get, the more you understand the, the, the, the industry, the better off you are. It's almost like a permanent job interview. LinkedIn is right? Yeah. Um, it has your face. It's like, you're always, you're always looking. I, I, I spend about 20 minutes every night on LinkedIn, every single evening. I just get on there. You know, the kids are going to bed, right. They're sleeping. Why not 20 minutes and see what's going on. What's the podcast. What are these companies like out there? What are they posting? What are they struggling with? Right. Understand them. I, I, I think that's huge in, in this industry is, um, is, is, is being, putting yourself out there, right? Mm-hmm , and you're, you're in constant job interview mode. Right. And someone may seek you out. They're they're looking so always have that LinkedIn, um, profile up to date, professional looking.
Jack Jostes
So, so that makes sense, you know, for, for, if you're an employee, right. What about, what about for business leaders who are listening that are maybe struggling to find people? What are some things that they could try themselves to recruit what, you know? So you, you know, I love the getting involved in the community. I agree the culture of your company. Like if you're not a good place to work, people are gonna find out sooner or later. . Yeah, totally. So I think, I think that's like a foundational thing. What are some, some things that they could go try themselves to start up a conversation with somebody that might lead to an interview
Tommy Cole
Or yeah. You know, it's, it's, uh, I would, as a company, I would connect with a lot of people. Right. It's, it's, it's, we're all in this, in the relationship business. So it's getting connected. Um, if you got someone in an organization reaching out to people, right. Making a connection, Hey, I saw your post. It looked great. How is it going? Right. Uh, uh, how is the business going, where you're at like interaction, it's almost like a digital conversation. So here's the thing is, is always being communication. Uh, oftentimes what companies do is they go, well, we're not in need of someone, so we're not gonna be on LinkedIn as much. Right? Oh, now we need somebody. So now I'm gonna go engage in conversations. I, I, I really firmly believe that companies need to be involved in social media all the time constantly. And there should be a dialogue and interaction when there's dialogue and interaction, your company is getting elevated in the social media world, right. To be seen. Right. And as a company you want to be seen in the social media world. So in order to be seen, now you're being attracted to potential candidates.
Jack Jostes
Definitely. Right. Yeah. I, I think, yeah, you have to be involved in those conversations. And I I'm the same way actually, I, after I put my kids to bed, I'm checking out LinkedIn and just even liking some posts and posting a comment, you learn a lot and see a lot. Yeah.
What To Look For When Hiring A Professional Recruiter
So what's it, what's it like to work with a professional recruiter? And how would, you know, if you're talking with a good one or a bad one, right. So what are, what are maybe some, some things that you could, what would be the criteria of, of a good recruiter for a landscape company?
Tommy Cole
Well, first and foremost, you know, industry, uh, knowledge, right. Do they recruit in that industry or do they recruit for multitude of industries? It, right. You name it across the board. Do, are they in the hospitality? Are they in the medical world? Right. So I would hone in on specific Mar right. So landscape industry, right. That's, that's probably a big one. Mm-hmm you understand it a little bit better. Um, you know, I, to me, you have to, the, the recruiting staff has to, to understand who you are. Right. So let's take an in, let's get an intake form is what they call it. Like, let's really understand Jack as a potential candidate. Mm-hmm what is he like? Where is he from all the experience that he's put together? Like, we need to have a conversation, a long conversation about what you're looking for, where you've been, what's your history, all that, like really understand that person.
The more we understand that person, then we can take that person and, and, and, and make a fit for an organization. Right. So someone that takes the time, uh, to get to know that person, it's kind of like their profile. Um, you know, the other thing is, um, is, are they updating you along the way? Right. So you've, you've got, you've hired someone, are they giving you weekly updates or daily updates saying, Hey, listen, I've reached out to a couple of organizations, right? How is the dialogue? And you've gotta act like this is a client, right. This is like a client in a landscape company. Right. So we're talking about, you know, intake form, are they in the industry? Is there communication, right. It's no different than, than running your own business. Yeah. Um, you know, and you know, those fees are, they're expensive. Right.
And so at the end of the day, you wanna make sure you're getting that, that volume in, and you feel like you're getting your return on your investment for that person that you may hire. Um,McFarlin Stanford does it great. Um, we, we, we take those recruiting fees that you'll play, that you'll pay and divide it in 12 months. So becomes a monthly payment, which is great. So it's not a one time hit up front. Um, most landscape companies can't take that one time, hit up front. So we kind of, we space it out over the course of 12 months, which is great for landscape companies.
Jack Jostes
Well, and then what happens if the employee doesn't work out? Do they keep paying you or
Tommy Cole
No, the employee leaves. It doesn't work out. We replace it at no charge. Wow. So here's the thing, like I said earlier, it's a win-win mm-hmm you gotta take that multi-prong approach. If you just say I'm gonna put a no hiring now, hiring sign up front. Well, that's not gonna work. Right. They just don't walk in, how can I attack and go after the community and the colleges and the universities referral bonuses. Oh. And by the way, can I hire a professional too? That, so think about all those approaches across the board. So now you have all these avenues that you can start to get candidates to come in, right?
Jack Jostes
Yeah, definitely. I think you need to have multiple channels for your, for your sales and marketing, um, for your recruiting and, and, uh, that'll set you up really for the, a, a good steady stream of, of potential people to work with. And, and like you said, those conversations, I think connecting with people on LinkedIn and keeping an interaction with them, just even checking in with them, maybe that maybe they're not ready to work with you now.
Tommy Cole
Yeah.
Jack Jostes
But they may be later. And there's definitely been times where I've kept in touch with people.
Tommy Cole
Absolutely. Yeah. That is, that is a key, cuz we're in the relationship business at the end of the day, you may not have a spot for that person, but that doesn't mean you need to hang up the phone and not talk to 'em until a time is ready. Well, what you may get, you may find someone and they're not ready. So that can like, listen, I'm not ready to make a move. Like I'm good. Thank you, Bob. We completely understand this is, they're not right the right move, but I'll tell you what, I'm gonna stay in touch with you. Oh really? Right. You know how we always say we're gonna stay in touch. So what you do as an, as an employer is you put your in your calendar. I'm gonna follow up in three months and another three months. And I'm gonna keep checking in four times a year with Bob, Bob.
How's it going? How's the family. Oh man. It's great. You know, I still love the company. What if six months go by and Bob goes, this is not working out, man. If something's not right, man. Oh, is, is Jim gonna call me again? Yep. Here comes Jim calling again. Right. Bob, how's it going, Bob? You know, Bob's like, I'm not feeling anymore, Jim. I think I'm let's talk. Right? Because you fostered that relationship. Like you really meant meant it. And it may take six months to get that key manager. It may take 12 months. Right. But at some point they may make a decision and go, you know what? I, I, I think I need to really entertain a conversation with Jim.
Jack Jostes
Well, um, Tommy, it's been a real pleasure for people who are listening that wanna learn more. How can we connect with you?
Tommy Cole
Yeah. Great. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm there every night, right? Great. Uh, Tommy Cole at C O L E so you can, can find me there. I I'd love to comment and interact with all of our clients, uh, everything. So connect there, or you can go to our website, mcfarlinstanford.com Uh, we've got a great videos and information about peer groups and bookkeeping recruiting. Uh, any of that, you know, you can contact us and you can get on our, uh, um, contact list. Just sign up for the newsletter. It's the first thing that pops up on the website. And then you get all of our content and sort of things that vent's coming up when we're speaking. Uh, look for us on social media. We're all over Instagram, uh, LinkedIn and Facebook. Um, we're speaking several times a year. We're hosting peer groups. We do a lot of fun stuff. It's great. We're all about growing, uh, businesses, uh, in the landscape world. So enjoyed it.
Jack Jostes
Awesome, Tommy. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show and, uh, I'll put links to that in the, in the show notes. It it's McFarlin Stanford. That's M C F a R L I N. And then Stanford is S T a N F O R D. So McFarlin Stanford, like the streets, if you haven't been on 'em.
Tommy Cole
There you go. So there you go.
Jack Jostes
Tommy, thanks so much.