00:00 – Starting From Scratch: Building a Landscape Company in Phoenix
00:00
Robert Clinkenbeard
You know, we started from scratch. We were working from a lockup. We would get there at 4:30 in the morning and were cutting the grass, trimming the shrubs. And then slowly we started to pick up some clients and some jobs and start to grow our team. We knew we had to take care of our clients. We were masters at taking care of our clients in terms of just being proactive. So I think just built off the quality, the people within our company and also taking care of our clients. I think that really helped us scale up really quickly.
00:26 – Meet Robert Clinkenbeard: $20M Business, Ironman, and Podcast Host
00:26
Jack Jostes
Hey everyone. Welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide. Today I'm excited to have Robert Clinkenbeard, the CEO of Wilson360. He's a seasoned landscape entrepreneur who built and sold a $20 million commercial landscape business with five branches and 350 employees. He's also a four time Ironman, a leader in entrepreneurs organization and the host of The Commercial Landscaper Podcast. So right now we're in person, we're in Denver, Colorado. You just wrapped up the Wilson360 Thought Leaders Retreat. Thanks for having me as a guest today. It was a really great event. I only came for the third of three days and it was excellent. So Robert, thanks for coming on the podcast.
01:19
Robert Clinkenbeard
No, I'm excited. Thanks for meeting me and getting this nice set up here. So I really appreciate it.
01:24
Jack Jostes
Folks listening may notice you have a cool voice. Where are you from? A little. And what else should we know about your background that I didn't already mention?
01:31 – From Scotland to Arizona: Learning Landscaping in the Desert
01:31
Robert Clinkenbeard
So I moved from Edinburgh in Scotland across to straight from one extreme to another. So I went from Edinburgh in Scotland to Phoenix, Arizona back in 99. So I went from 50 degrees to 100 degrees. I had my background in horticulture, got my degree in horticulture back in Scotland. Just got fed up with the weather over there and I thought, well, I've got my American passport so it's pretty easy for me to move here. So I went to move to Phoenix, did some really basic jobs and then I went to work for Valleycrest in Phoenix. So yeah, it was a little bit of a shock to the system dealing with totally different landscaping, but I loved that move.
02:10
Jack Jostes
So you studied horticulture in Scotland. What did you learn about landscaping in the desert in Scotland and how accurate was it?
02:20
Robert Clinkenbeard
I mean, I don't think I had too much of a clue what the differences would be. I mean, Scotland's all about, you know, drainage. It's really wet over there. I mean, we have, you know, probably, you know, a couple hundred days of Rain a year. So it's really challenging over there. So then to come to Phoenix where there's only 10 days of rain a year. So I knew it was important for me to go to get some training. So I went to the Desert Botanic Gardens in Phoenix and learned about agaves and cactus and irrigation. So that was really helpful.
02:53
Jack Jostes
Yeah, that's. That. That must have been quite a shock to the system to come here from such a humid climate to the desert. So fast forward, you then started your own company and in 15 years you grew to $20 million in revenue, is that right? Yeah. How did you do that? That's a pretty short Runway.
03:13 – Scaling to $20M: Hiring the Right People and Serving Clients
03:13
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah. I mean, I had a great business. Part of us worked for Valleycrest at the time. I think we got fed up with some of the corporate stuff that went on with bigger companies. So, you know, we started from scratch. We were working from a lockup. We would get there at 4:30 in the morning and were cutting the grass, trimming the shrubs. And then slowly we start to pick up some clients and some jobs and start to grow our team. So it was definitely a little bit of a shock to the system. But I think, you know, two, I think two probably key areas that we really focused on is to hire the right people. So as we scaled the company, getting the right people in, obviously quality was really important to us, but we knew we had to take care of our clients.
03:58
Robert Clinkenbeard
We were masters at taking care of our clients. In terms of just being proactive, we had, I talk about tiers of customer relationships one through five, one being that transactional, five being just that almost like friendship type with our clients. That was our goal, to try and get that client almost to a 4 and 5 by taking them out, doing events. We had some amazing events. So I think just built off the quality, the people within our company and also taking care of our clients. I think that really helped us scale up really quickly.
04:32
Jack Jostes
I really like what you said there. In my own company, I actually drew a pyramid and at the bottom I wrote the basics. And at the top we wrote Cura Personalis, which is care for the whole person. And that's the level that I want to get to with people and it's even above Trusted Advisor. But in order to get there with people, you have to do the basics really well. Because if you're not doing the core service that you're providing for somebody, they're not going to want to go out with you or be your friend or they're not going to have that Deeper relationship with you?
05:06 – Standing Out in Phoenix: Client Care and Even Company Kilts
05:06
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, for sure. And I think that was something that we emphasized with my team as they came on board. You know, we knew that we had to do the basics. Let's get the quality there, let's be up, show up in time, let's communicate. But what are the things that we can do to really differentiate ourselves over a competition? Obviously, Phoenix is a really competitive market, so it was all the little extra things that we do that would just get us noticed. I mean, even things going back to the whole Scottish theme. You know, a lot of my team members had kilts, so we actually made our own company Tartan, and a lot of our key managers had kilts. So anytime went to any type of award ceremonies or special dinners or something, a lot of our team would wear kilts.
05:52
Robert Clinkenbeard
So, I mean, talk about standing out amongst the competition. It was amazing.
05:56
Jack Jostes
Was it with that company that you were a client of, Bruce Wilson?
06:01
Robert Clinkenbeard
I belonged to a group called the eeo, which is Entrepreneurs Organization. And that was really good to be around other business owners in different businesses. He got great ideas, but I knew there was something missing there in terms of the accountability. So I'd known Bruce from Valleycrest back in the day, and I knew he was offering these peer groups, so were invited to one of his peer groups, and that really helped to, I suppose, really dial in our numbers, knew what sort of numbers we should be held accountable for.
06:33 – Learning From Bruce Wilson and Joining Peer Groups
06:33
Jack Jostes
So many people listening do know who Bruce Wilson is, and some people haven't heard of Bruce Wilson or they haven't heard of Wilson360. So could you share? I got to see Bruce for the first time in person today. He did an excellent Q and A and just shared 50 years of wisdom in an hour that, I mean, I was taking notes the whole time. So who is Bruce Wilson and what are some of his core philosophies that he worked with you on when you were in his peer group?
07:01
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, he wasn't the founder of at the time it was called Environmental Care, which then reduced Branded to Valleycrest. But, I mean, he was certainly the main driving force of that scaling. That company, I mean, started off with a branch in California and then I don't even remember the end revenue, but it was probably one of the first companies and first people to help scale that company. So when he left Valleycrest, you know, probably, I would say maybe 10, 15 years ago, I just, you know, I had sold my company by that time. I thought, well, how can I partner up with Bruce? I mean, he's Such great knowledge, great experience.
07:43
Jack Jostes
So you'd already sold your company?
07:44 – Buying Wilson360 and Rebranding the Consulting Business
07:44
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, I'd sold my company in 2016 and, you know, worked for the buyer for about 18 months or so. So during that time I started to explore what do I want to do after this? So I connected with Bruce, knew that he was, you know, he's getting on a little bit in age, so I thought, well, Bruce, how can I help inject some energy into your consulting company. So I approached him, we worked together, and eventually he knew he was beginning to get towards that retirement age, so bought him out and we rebranded the company Wilson T60 roughly about two years ago. So that's been a big transformation and really helped to scale my company.
08:28
Jack Jostes
That's great. So you bought Wilson360. And I just read today that NALP announced that Wilson360 is their preferred peer group. Tell me about that.
08:42
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, we've always enjoyed our relationship with NALP. Over the last six to nine months, we've been talking to them how we can work closely together. I mean, we have so much respect for each other in terms of professionalism. They obviously enjoy that we work with some of the larger companies, we offer a lot of education, a lot of benchmarking. So we thought, well, this is potentially a really good partnership here. We could help each other out. So we finally made that agreement literally about a week ago, and all the announcements out today, but again, it just gets back to. You asked me earlier about the whole vision with Wilson.
09:21
Jack Jostes
Yeah. I was curious about how long has Wilson been around?
09:27
Robert Clinkenbeard
The rebranded Wilson has been around for about two years. The Bruce Wilson company has been probably around 12, 15 years.
09:35
Jack Jostes
Yeah, it's been around so for about 15 years. So you bought it, you've rebranded it. Wilson360. What's in the name? What does Wilson360 mean to you and where is the vision? Where are you taking the company?
09:45 – Why “Wilson360”: One Vision, One Roadmap for Landscapers
09:45
Robert Clinkenbeard
Good question. I felt when I still had my landscape companies, that a lot of company owners are either not getting help or they're getting help from this consultant here or this consultant there, whether it be budgeting, whether it be strategic planning, whether it be account management training. And I thought, well, everybody's working in silos. They're almost potentially competing against each other, maybe even giving different messages or opposing messages to the client. And I thought, why not build a company where I'll bring in all the experts under one umbrella and then we have that almost like that, one voice, one vision, one roadmap for our clients. So that's why we've created that 360. So it's almost like a 360 help for our clients. So if somebody engages us, for example, with coaching, I'll maybe help them with strategic planning.
10:41
Robert Clinkenbeard
What does the next 1, 3, 5 year strategic plan? Right. But as we're going through that journey, we might need my people expert to come in and help with some of that talent development. I might need my fractional CFO to come in and help with the financial piece and do some dashboarding. Maybe a company's having some challenges, operational issues. So have that expert come in as well. So to be able to have access to all my different experts as they're going through that journey for potentially some type of expertise.
11:13
Jack Jostes
So was Bruce's original model more of just peer group without some of those additional coaching services?
11:21
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, his main focus at the beginning was peer groups. And I did a great job at peer groups and did a little bit of consulting, but I think I've taken his original vision and almost blown it up a little bit.
11:33
Jack Jostes
Well, yeah, because it's not Clinkin Beard 360, it's Wilson360. So what is it about Bruce Wilson that's going to continue on that are maybe some core principles, maybe some things that the audience listening could take away?
11:48
Robert Clinkenbeard
No. Good. Good question. I mean, I think, you know, first of all, I have so much respect for Bruce, so I felt it was important to at least keep that name there. But I mean, one of the things I talked about earlier is just how do we take care of our clients? And clients could be not only our owners of the companies, but it could also be, you know, the clients of our companies as well. So it was almost like, okay, how do we serve them with the best advice possible? And then, yes, we might get some more business from doing that, you know, that service, but it's all about serving others and what's the best advice that we can provide.
12:30
Robert Clinkenbeard
I love this industry overall, and I think it's a very giving industry, but I'm sort of trying to just package it together and put a nice bow in it.
12:42 – Bruce Wilson’s Principles: Do Good Work and Keep It
12:42
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I was just pulling up some notes from Bruce's Q and A panel, and one of the things that he said that I feel like is in line with what you were saying with that customer focus was one was, do good work and don't lose it.
12:55
Robert Clinkenbeard
It's a simple principle, Pretty simple. It's not rocket science. A lot of people don't realize the time and effort and money to get new clients. And it might take them 3 months, 6 months, 12 months. But once you have that work, then keep it talking to your client, finding out what their needs are, if there's any changes along that way. But really important.
13:18
Jack Jostes
Well, one of the things that he said along part of that was if you make a mistake, fix it before the client knows about it. And if you can't fix it before they know about it, tell them. Yeah. And that's just basic common sense in some ways, but it's also something that most businesses in any industry don't do. And I that really resonated with me because I don't know, my accountant as an example, made a mistake with my taxes and he let me know about it and that I was upset that there was a mistake. But I'm glad that he told me about it. It went a long way.
13:55
Robert Clinkenbeard
And that was one of the guiding principles we had at my own company in Phoenix was I always wanted feedback from the field, whether it be the crew, whether it be a foreman, any of the supervisors, account managers, if they saw an issue, either pick up the phone, take a photograph, send it either to me, or ideally straight to the customer. And not only telling about the good work we're doing, but also if we've screwed up because again, I'd rather that they know as quickly as possible and either they're fixing it straight away or they're saying, hey, we've messed up, we're going to be fixing it in seven days or something, whatever that timeline looked like, but being as proactive as possible and also that extended past even non landscape issues.
14:44
Robert Clinkenbeard
So if we, for example, saw some dumping, some vandalism, some graffiti, again, we wanted to be the eyes and ears for a client and just let them know because we knew that they were stretched. Again, part of our philosophy was how can we serve or take care of our clients? And I think clients recognize that. I think that was again, one of the reasons why we started to get a lot more business.
15:13
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I agree. You're walking the property and you're not just looking at the landscape, you're taking care of the whole thing. And maybe you can't even fix those things, but you're the one that's like, hey, I saw this, I'm thinking about you.
15:25
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah. And they really appreciated that. Multiple different times that we got so much feedback from a client saying, oh, thank you so much.
15:32 – Ironman Lessons for Business: Planning and Training
15:32
Jack Jostes
So, Robert, you've done the Ironman four times and it's part of your book. Tell us a little bit about your book. And are you Currently training for another Ironman or what are you up to?
15:44
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, I mean I used to play a lot of soccer or football as I call it, rugby. My body started to sort of fall apart a little bit just from all those hard knocks. So I just got pulled into initially doing some running and then I found this triathlon group in Phoenix. And certainly I'm not built for doing triathlons, especially Ironman stuff. But I think, you know, a lot of people know me, I'm just really competitive. I like, you know, some type of a goal. So I got pulled into doing some smaller triathlons, sprints, Olympic half Ironman stuff. Never thought in a million years I'd be doing an Ironman. But I think with doing training I had coaches. I had coaches for my bike and coaches for my nutrition, coaches for my swimming. For sure I was not great swimmer.
16:36
Robert Clinkenbeard
So I think after achieving those Ironman races I thought, you know, I just, I thought well, how can I, I suppose share some of my wisdom with other business owners? And what I did is I tried to just compare, you know, those challenges, going through an Ironman preparation and race, how that compares in with your business. So you're talking about things like, you know, coming up with a plan. So when you're doing an Ironman you're not just walking at the door and jumping on a bike. I mean it's detailed enough that I know how much I need to run today, how much I need to bike today. It's the same with business.
17:18
Robert Clinkenbeard
If you have some type of a plan, one year, three year, five year, and you're breaking it down per week, per quarter, then it makes it so much easier to follow that plan because it's so easy. And as you know, when you have all these shiny objects with social media and all these distractions with news, really easy to go off track where if you have that written plan then it's really easy to. Not easy, but it's easier to follow. And if you get back on track.
17:50
Jack Jostes
Then you can go back. Yeah, I agree with you. So I know that you. Do you personally use traction in your own running of Wilson360 or have you adapted it? I know that you had somebody present on EOS today.
18:03
Robert Clinkenbeard
I used traction in my old landscape company. I then became a scaling up coach.
18:09
Jack Jostes
Okay.
18:09
Robert Clinkenbeard
Which is a slightly more complicated. What I've done now is I've almost built our own unique operating system for the landscape industry. So it's a little bit from us, a little bit from scaling up, almost taking the best from Both and pull together something very specific to the landscape industry. And one of the key things to that as well as, you know, Steve Steele is on my team. You know, he does a lot of fractional CFO work. We've been doing benchmarking for 10 or 12 years. So to be able to have access to those metrics of really successful companies, it helps you with, you know, having that metrics that companies following our program can measure up to see where they need to tweak.
18:56
Jack Jostes
I find, you know, I don't know what you call it, what the document is, but I do the VTO and I update it every quarter and I record a video for my team about here's how our rocks went last quarter, here's where we're going, here's our one year goal, our three year picture, our ten year target. And I found that document for me is like a filter. So a lot of big ideas come to me sometimes from people like you who are like, hey Jack, we have this thing and I'm like, oh, and sometimes I filter it. And I'm like, yeah, that does support the vision or sometimes. Really?
19:31
Robert Clinkenbeard
You're almost like that visionary for your company.
19:33
Jack Jostes
Yes, I am. Yes. And so for me it's, there's no shortage of big ideas that I come up with. Right.
19:42
Robert Clinkenbeard
And that's so true.
19:43
Jack Jostes
And that is all. And it's sometimes distracting because I'm like, oh, what about this? You know, and going through that system though, helps me stay focused and be like, all right, I've got to finish this rock and maybe I need to delay this decision even 40 days to when I'm planning my next rock.
20:04
Robert Clinkenbeard
Oh, 100%. I mean, you mentioned earlier about, you know, you're at the thought leader retreat we have. I mean that's, I mean that's the goal is we want to be able to share great speakers, presenters. So owners go back to their business with, you know, two or three ideas. Now, you know, they're probably maybe a little bit fed up with all these ideas coming up on a regular basis, but you're right, you need to have that filtered to be able to see, okay, these ideas are great. Does it fit in with our current 90 day set of rocks or are we putting that in the parking lot for next quarter? But just to have that plan in place is really super helpful.
20:43
Jack Jostes
What were some of the things maybe that were presented at this conference about AI and technology? What are you seeing that's new right now that your clients are using that's helping them Run a better business.
20:56
Robert Clinkenbeard
I mean, you've mentioned a couple so far. I mean, eos, I think we've heard a lot of clients say, hey, we need some type of system there. So we just wanted to expose them to this is how it works. You need to, you know, start incorporating that into your company. It's not an easy process because it takes a while to get to really.
21:13
Jack Jostes
It does, yeah. I read, when I read the book, I think it said something like it takes people three years. And I was like, no, I'm going to do this, like this weekend, I'm just going to. And it did take a lot of time and I didn't work with an implementer, but I did have buy in from some key employees.
21:32
Robert Clinkenbeard
And I think that's the key there is. If you have, if you have buy in from your leadership team and you're also forcing as well, I think that's, you know, makes a big difference.
21:43
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I don't know how you could do it without that because it's such a shift in how the company operates. No, no. So I was thinking more on the like AI and technology side. So I think EOS is an awesome business operating system.
21:59 – AI, Technology, and Customer Care: Key Takeaways From Retreat
21:59
Robert Clinkenbeard
AI was one of our first presenters here and you know, he was presenting, Nick was presenting for about an hour and a half. And I was just blown away by how engaged people were and I could see them almost taking a ton of notes. I even heard of some of the audience then trying to do their own coding at night, so trying to develop systems. So I think I heard it at the leaders forum back in January that people knew AI was coming and it's coming down this tunnel, but not many people are spending the time to do. But I think today's message and presentation, Monday's presentation message was again another emphasis that, hey, this is coming, you need to embrace this really quickly.
22:45
Robert Clinkenbeard
So I feel as though that message got across and the fact that he was showing special prompts that people can use and just making it really easy for people to understand, that was huge. And then the other piece of that, we had a presentation around customer care, customer service, how you should try and differentiate your company. I think that was also a really powerful session. We've heard it probably a ton of times before, but I think sometimes it's nice just to get people what was.
23:19
Jack Jostes
Something new, maybe that was, I didn't see that one. What was something that you've been in the room, if you will, for many decades. What was something new that stood out.
23:29
Robert Clinkenbeard
To you on that topic today, experimenting. And sometimes if you listen to people, they may be naysayers and say, you know, and almost like discourage you from doing it. But I think, I don't think enough people experiment enough because of either thinking they're going to make a mistake or people don't like it or something. But I think you have to, I coach this a lot. If you allow enough time in your week to reflect and try and work on the business and come up with some of these new ideas, I don't think people give enough time to do that. So that was one of the pieces I felt as though he was displaying his experiment. Try new things out, talk to people, what's working, what's not working. Well, I think that was quite a powerful message.
24:18
Jack Jostes
Yeah, it is funny. Experimenting is terrifying to some people. And I think recognizing the, you know, sometimes like I, I may not communicate well enough with my own team about what I'm experimenting with or why or how. And I'm just thinking of how it has really freaked people out. And so I found that sometimes if I communicate, hey, we're going to do a test with this client and here's what we're going to look at. And I make it almost seem like it's a checklist even though it is an experiment. Some of those more introverted people who are risk averse may be like, oh, I see what we're doing and maybe this step of the process I can help with or have you thought about these steps? So I think a lot of it just comes down to remembering that people learn and communicate differently.
25:15
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah. And I think just creating that environment within your workplace to allowing experimentation, allow that free flowing idea, brainstorming, not jumping on people when they do make mistakes. So I think that's really essential.
25:33 – The Commercial Landscaper Podcast and Global Audience
25:33
Jack Jostes
So tell us a bit about The Commercial Landscaper Podcast.
25:36
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, I've been doing that now for four years. It initially started off as a little bit of a passion project. I just love talking to people. And you know, one of the things I suppose I have enjoyed is that after I sold I thought, well, do I do a retirement to young to retire? But how can I give back to the industry? And I thought there's so many amazing people out there who have either sold or maybe retired. Why not give them a platform to be able to share a few nuggets in a short, you know, 20, 30 minutes. So it's not invasive to people either doing the interview or hearing that interview. Maybe they're listening to it back and forward to work. So, you know, over the years, it's just picked up a little bit more in terms of better editing, better branding.
26:27
Robert Clinkenbeard
Got a huge audience now, people. I've got listeners all around the world and I get some messages from Australia and Asia. So they really, I suppose, appreciate what I'm doing. So it just keeps me encouraged. I think we've now got a backlog of three, four months of people who are lined up, ready to jump on.
26:45
Jack Jostes
Cool. Yeah, That's a good feeling as a podcast host, having that backlog. Yeah. And I'm excited to be on your show. What are we going to talk about?
26:54
Robert Clinkenbeard
Wherever you'd like. I mean, I leave it really open. I mean, you've got some. Some great background. But people ask me and they almost get a little bit freaked out because they think I'm going to come up with some type of script or maybe even and catch them off guard, and that's definitely not like me. So I'd rather somebody come on and talk about something that they're passionate about or something that maybe that happened to them recently, that they want to share that experience. Because, again, my goal is to. I don't know if you've noticed this recently, but yes, the M and E activity is super hot right now. Seems to been hot for 10 years. But I've seen a lot of these. You say M and A margin acquisitions.
27:35
Jack Jostes
Yeah, for sure.
27:37
Robert Clinkenbeard
But I think I've seen a lot of these younger owners now get into business and they're growing really quickly.
27:44
Jack Jostes
Yeah.
27:45
Robert Clinkenbeard
And I think it's because they have access to podcasts.
27:50
Jack Jostes
I agree. I mean, so I interviewed somebody, it's coming out this week, and he's 23 years old now. He started his company from scratch, but I've interviewed him every year at the snow Symposium. His name's Jacob. I've asked him and he shared this on the podcast. He went through their. I don't know if it was apprenticeship program or scholarship. So he got a scholarship, basically got to come to the snow Symposium for free. Had a mentor and says that the mentors and the learning and all the resources helped him grow. I mean, he reached a million in, I think, two and a half years or something, you know, and. And I have a colleague who's about my age, he's around 40, who. Who bought a commercial landscape company and is growing it really quickly. So I think you're right.
28:36
Jack Jostes
And that's something I love about the landscape industry and why I'm looking forward to your show and why I do mine is. And just hearing People talk at your event. You know, I came in for the breakfast Mastermind. Everyone sharing ideas and generally wanting to help the industry. And not every industry is like that for sure.
28:54
Robert Clinkenbeard
I think that's one of the unique abilities of our industry as people are willing to share. Now, you know, if you go to, for example, a state event, there's probably a little bit more walls up there, but certainly these regional national events, there's so many people willing to share. And you know, one of the things we do is the peer groups and we try and make sure that, you know, we do a really careful job of trying to match up the people either size of companies, non competing markets, size of companies, number of employees, just so that they have that ability or that free space to be able to share ideas with each other. And again, all that does is elevate not only their companies, but I think it elevates the industry as a whole.
29:37
Robert Clinkenbeard
I'd love to hear more about what you do and what you got into the industry and what you see out there with all the guests that you interview.
29:48 – Jack’s Story: From Garden Center Job to Niche Marketing Agency
29:48
Jack Jostes
Yeah. So my background, I worked at a garden center in high school during the spring. It was just a summer spring job, but I went back five seasons in a row and realized I really liked working there. And when I started my marketing company, I was really just doing freelance work by myself. And I was a public speaker for Constant Contact. And they sent me to speak at a garden center landscape show. And I shared my story. Hey, I used to work at a garden center and people are like, oh, you kind of know what we do. And I'm like, yeah, I do. And I got several clients who got results and I was invited to speak the next year and I shared their results and I got more clients.
30:29
Jack Jostes
I just started getting word of mouth and getting invited to speak because the industry, it's really big, but it's really small. Everyone's on a board of their state, national, or they go to a peer group. And so I started speaking. And after a few years, landscape industry was about half of my revenue. And my. I hired a business coach because I knew I needed to grow and scale. And he said, you need to niche down in something. And part of that path was going. I had a really great H Vac client and so I went to this H Vac expo and it was very cold. I don't know. That industry was not at all like the landscape industry. It was not welcoming everyone. You had to like really know someone or like be related to someone.
31:16
Jack Jostes
Whereas the landscape industry was like, oh, you worked with him and you worked with her. And like, I know them and.
31:22
Robert Clinkenbeard
Well, it's interesting you see that because, you know, I've often thought about, you know, could Wilson360, you know, go and help other service companies, HVC, plumbing, electrical. But hearing that, it makes me cautious because I think you're right. I think once you know, I was really involved in the local association in Arizona. I was on the board president there. But, you know, over the last, I suppose six, seven years, I've got more involved in the regional, national level. And I think once you get to know people and just get connected, it's just such an amazing industry.
31:53
Jack Jostes
Well, I think that we work with similar companies. Do you work with companies that are typically north of 2 million in revenue? Yeah, so I just did. I just bought an IBIS World report on this.
32:04
Robert Clinkenbeard
That.
32:04
Jack Jostes
And in the United states, there are 40,000 landscape companies that are north of 2 million in revenue. So I've worked through this decision of like. Because people have been like, jack, you should do this for home restoration companies or H Vac. And I'm like, I could. Or, I mean, like, or you could.
32:24
Robert Clinkenbeard
Just dial in and get.
32:25
Jack Jostes
I could just dial in and have a super niche business in the landscape industry. So that's where I'm focused. Partly because I, I actually enjoy it. I love it. So the podcast started. I had a silly show called Friday's Informal Facebook Films, and we'd share a tech tip and a marketing tip every Friday. And then that kind of worked and I started doing it every Friday. And then it evolved to something else. And around that eight year mark, I rebranded my company and focused on landscaping. And a few years after that started the Landscape Guide podcast. So that was five years ago. And funny story, today I asked a question. I got a lot of value today out of the.
33:11
Robert Clinkenbeard
You were at the People's session or the wealth session?
33:14
Jack Jostes
The wealth session. So. So that guy was talking about creating trusts in other states and I was like, hey, how do I do this in Colorado? And so the guy next to me, he's like. And I didn't have a name badge today. He said, hey, are you Jack? And I said, yeah. And he's like, I listen to your podcast. So he literally recognized my voice from me talking. And I just kind of got into his podcast algorithm somehow. So that's just another story of like, it's a big industry, but it's a really small industry. And I end up meeting people and building relationships with them through the podcast, through my social Media, seeing them in person.
33:53 – Coaching, Mentorship, and Why Owners Need Outside Perspective
33:53
Robert Clinkenbeard
That's great. Yeah. I mean, you brought up an interesting point there that I suppose ties into what I said earlier, that there are a lot of business owners out there who really great at their trades. They've got things dialed in, but sometimes their head's down so much working up, you know, in the business, they're not necessarily working on the business and they're not thinking about, you know, how can I scale, how can I get a mentor or coach, what do I need to do to sort of help build my wealth and also protect my wealth. So, you know, that's, again, one of our goals is to, you know, how can we expose all these owners to all these different, you know, opportunities or learning? So again, take them up as a business owner.
34:39
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I like that because that was. That was what I needed to hear today was that guy and he had some funny stories. He had some good stories. So it was well done. And I also saw Sheila talk about HR and how to have difficult conversations with people, which is most of business. Maybe. Maybe most. I don't know if it's most of it, but it's certainly a big part of it.
35:04
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah. I mean, I almost talk to people as if landscape companies are not landscaping. And he's saying that it's all about people, management. Because when you actually look at either the number of employees or if you look at, you know, consolidating the cost of labour, it's probably in that 60%, 50, 60% of your costs are around people. So it's a big element that I don't think necessarily enough people put enough emphasis on. So that's why we thought it was really important to bring Sheila in.
35:37
Jack Jostes
Yeah, I think it is, but I think it's partly because so many people like Bruce was talking about just mowing lawns and his dad didn't think that was a real job and he had to get a real job and then he came back into mowing lawns and then built up a multi million dollar company. So I think that's part of the American dream. I'm partly curious, what is landscaping in Scotland like and how different is it from.
36:02
Robert Clinkenbeard
Definitely not the same emphasis as, you know, over here. There's a lot more care over here. Definitely not the money over there to. I feel I was just back there in May of this year and I feel as though they've cut a lot of the costs with landscaping. I mean, they still have some nice botanic gardens, but in general I've seen a decline in the Quality of landscaping because it's not priority to them.
36:23
Jack Jostes
Okay.
36:24
Robert Clinkenbeard
So that's why I'm really excited to be part of the. The industry over here. So.
36:29
Jack Jostes
Yeah, just really Well, I think what I was getting at is the American dream of, like, just starting a business and the scrappiness of the landscape industry and even my own business of just starting freelancing and then accidentally hiring people. I didn't have any training in the people work, so that's one of the things that I look for from coaches and peer groups and leadership books is how to manage and lead people. And Sheila's presentation was really valuable, right?
37:00
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, there's a couple things there. There's definitely not the same emphasis on entrepreneurship in the uk. It's almost frowned upon. And I've even seen cases where people have gone into business and because they came successful, people are really quick to try and chop them down. So it's definitely not that same entrepreneurial spirit as over here. So that's why I'm really grateful to be here. I think a lot of business owners, I don't know whether it's just through ego or just thinking they know enough, but I think there's so much opportunity for business owners at whatever level. I mean, we. I think we brought on our first coach mentor when were probably four or five years into business, and it was around the financial piece because that was a strong area for us.
37:47
Robert Clinkenbeard
But I think there's so much benefit on bringing in some type of expert, whether it be marketing, whether it be operations, and just maybe they're able to see it from a different wilsonangle and just almost like unlock that potential there. And I think I really can't emphasize that enough. I don't necessarily care if they're coming to Wilson360, but I think just keeping an open mind to looking at who's out there and who can help their company scale.
38:17
Jack Jostes
I agree. And there's so many resources out there for free. I mean, my podcast. Your podcast, NALP. I've been a member of NALP for, I think, eight years, maybe nine. Incredible association. I recommend people join their state association, go to those events. And that was another one of Bruce's, like, life takeaways, was to always be learning and growing. And I think that's essential.
38:47
Robert Clinkenbeard
You have to be learning and going back to your point about AI, I mean, I think, yes, you not only have to know it and understand it yourself, but we talk about how do we encourage people coming from school or college into our industry. And unless we're Doing things like AI robotics, using the data, that's going to be a struggle for us. So I think the quicker we can embrace that and figure out how can we attract that younger, maybe tech savvy talent into our companies, I think the better that's going to help. Company skill.
39:22 – Personal Life: Ironman, Twins, and Staying Strong
39:22
Jack Jostes
What's on your docket in your personal life? Are you doing another Ironman, or do you have some sort of adventure that you're preparing for?
39:29
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah, I. I had twins, so it definitely knocked my career back a little bit. So my last Ironman was in Nice in France, and it was pretty challenging. But I have a. I did a half Ironman a couple years ago and I have a 100 mile bike race coming up in the first week of September, so I'm training pretty hard for that. One of the cool things about this last few days is I led the morning runs and workouts.
39:55
Jack Jostes
Oh, yeah.
39:55
Robert Clinkenbeard
So that was super cool just to have people join me. We did some runs, we did some workouts downtown Denver. So I'm always trying to just, you know, keep. Keep that edge.
40:05
Jack Jostes
I'm going on a run right after this with our director of client strategy, because he lives in Denver. I live an hour away in Lions, and I'm like, hey, I brought my workout stuff. Do you want to. Are we doing a happy hour? Are we going on a run? What are we doing? And he's like, yeah, let's go on a run. So I like doing that.
40:21
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yeah. I think it helped us clear the mind. And I always feel you need some type of activity just to clear the head and be able to think through some things you've learned or whatever. And it's a great way to listen to podcasts.
40:38
Jack Jostes
I actually don't like listening to anything when I run. I find that if I listen to music, I. I don't know, I get too distracted and I try and like, run to the beat of the music. And for me, my run is a time where I don't even bring my phone with me. I just log it on my watch and I. And I just focus on breathing. Okay, so that's for me. But I do rucking. I do, like, weighted walks, and that's a little more. I can. I can listen to something and I don't need to be as focused on it.
41:06
Robert Clinkenbeard
But for my runs, One for us. Rocking.
41:09
Jack Jostes
So what did you get?
41:11
Robert Clinkenbeard
I can't remember the make of it, but yeah, I think we're up to 35, 40 pounds or so. So, yeah, we definitely feel it.
41:18
Jack Jostes
Oh, yeah, you definitely feel it. Yeah, well. And that's really good with your twins, I think. I mean, if you already did a Ironman, you're strong. But that was the best advice a friend of mine gave me, was to, like, stay strong and get strong, because you're gonna be lifting your kids and you want to be playing with them, and they're exhausting. They're exhausting. So how old are yours?
41:41
Robert Clinkenbeard
My twins are now 11, and then Jack is 13, and I've got two older kids who are so.
41:48
Jack Jostes
So I'm curious, is Jack. Is his name John and Jack is a nickname, or is he just Jack?
41:54
Robert Clinkenbeard
It is Jack. And I hate to admit this, but one of my favorite drinks is Jack Daniels.
42:00
Jack Jostes
Okay.
42:00
Robert Clinkenbeard
So they just seem to fit. So now he's. He's an awesome kid. He's a big soccer player. He plays for an elite team, so it's just nice to help him out.
42:10
Jack Jostes
That's a good name. It's a good name.
42:12
Robert Clinkenbeard
Yep.
42:12 – Closing Thoughts + Where to Learn More About Wilson360
42:12
Jack Jostes
All right, well, Robert Clinkenbeard from Wilson360 and The Commercial Landscaper Podcast. I'm going to put links to your podcast and website in the show notes. And thanks for coming on The Landscaper’s Guide Podcast.
42:25
Robert Clinkenbeard
Thank you, Jack. Really nice to meet you.
42:27
Jack Jostes
You too.
42:27
Robert Clinkenbeard
Thank you. Thank you.
42:30
Jack Jostes
Like today's video and subscribe to our YouTube Channel to get upcoming videos to help you grow your snow and landscape company. My name is Jack Jostes, and check out my free resources in the show notes and click the next video to grow your business.
Show Notes:
See upcoming events: https://landscapersguide.com/events
Watch the full episode + see the transcript: https://landscapersguide.com/podcast/
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: https://landscapersguide.com/toolbox
Connect with Robert:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-clinkenbeard/
- Wilson360: https://wilson-360.com/about-us/
- The Commercial Landscaper Podcast: https://thecommerciallandscaper.com/