As a small business owner, I've had a lot of bad experiences with employees. But I've had way more good ones. I've had a lot of people on my team who I really enjoy working with. And in today's podcast episode, I'm going to interview one of my top employees who's worked with me for years, about the idea of being an intentional leader instead of an accidental employer. So if you're looking for some ideas about leadership, recruiting and how to run your team, check out today's episode.
Jack Jostes:
Hey, everyone, Jack Jostes is here and welcome to the Landscapers Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing Podcast. Right now I'm at iLandscape 2022. This is the green industry trade show in Illinois, put on by the ILCA. I just finished my presentation of the Tree of Good Fortune. And I'm here with Ramblin Jackson Senior Landscape Marketing Strategist, Robert Felton.
Robert Felton:
Hello, Jack.
Jack Jostes:
Hi, Robert. Thanks, glad to have you back on the show.
Robert Felton:
I always love to be here.
Jack Jostes:
Fun coming out on the road. If you're listening to the audio of this, you might hear some noise from the hotel lobby, there's some music. Robert and I are wearing suits, we're in Illinois-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
People dress up a bit here. It's good to be back. We're both from the Midwest.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, it's fun. We both saw our parents while we were here. We both got to see some family. It's been a really nice trip.
Jack Jostes:
It has-
Robert Felton:
It's been great show, too.
Jack Jostes:
It's been a great show.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And so today we wanted to talk about accidental employers versus intentional leaders. And so, this ties into the challenge of the green industry with labor and recruiting. And Robert and I have worked together for ... we've kind of lost track ... about four years.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I think so.
Jack Jostes:
I think we worked together for a little over a year and then you left and worked at some other jobs. And then came back and we're really grateful that you did. And part of it was, I was an accidental employer at the time.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I think a little bit in the sales department there. But we've talked through it and I think there's been some ... yeah, I'm excited to talk about this subject. I think it's funny because it's a little relatable to us. And I think it's really relatable to the green industry.
Transitioning From Solo Operator To Accidental Employer
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Some of what being an intentional leader versus an accidental employer, and I believe that most business owners, most of our audience, are like me. Where I started Ramblin Jackson, I was doing digital marketing, I needed help, I started bringing on subcontractors. And eventually it made sense to have employees. And then I was like accidentally an employer. I didn't really study business, I didn't really study HR.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And all of a sudden I had employees and I had some bad experiences. So like many of our clients, I had employees who stole from me or didn't work when they said they were working. Or didn't do a good job and I was embarrassed by it. And then on the other side, I probably wasn't a very good employer. I didn't have all the right processes when I needed them, the right systems, the support that my employees needed. But part of me became jaded by that experience. And then when you came in, you were kind of coming into an environment where I had just ... I don't know I had-
Robert Felton:
There was just a little mistrust of sales people and you were a little bit ... I mean, you were a little micromanaged. I was a little micromanaged by you, which ... I mean, and I was working very hard for you. I mean, now working for you is completely different. And it's not that you were a bad employer, it was just like, I mean, I'm here, I really like what we're doing. I'm working really hard and it just seems like I'm getting met with some resistance or some mistrust. And I was like, "No, I'm here. I want to do this. I'm excited. I love what we're doing." But after coming back, it seems like you've really ... I mean, you've figured out how to be a great employer. I mean, we have a huge team now and everyone loves there.
Robert Felton:
You gave us money if we wanted to leave, but we all decided to stay. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. And I was genuine, I was excited to come back and excited. But I do think there's kind of that period where you kind of have to be an accidental employer. Like you were in a growing curve, you had some people screwed you over. I mean, I'm empathetic to what happened and I understand why it happened. And I'm glad that we did the second chance and I'm glad that I'm here today.
Jack Jostes:
I am too and-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
You've been here now for a couple years-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Since you've started again. And our clients really enjoy working with you. And you are doing a great job.
How To Deal With Negative Experiences With Employees
Robert Felton:
Yeah. Well, I think it's funny how it kind of relates back to the green industry, because I mean, we talk to people all day, even here. They're kind of getting a little jaded because people say they're going to be employees and they sell thinking they have 12 employees and all of a sudden they have six. And they're running around and I mean, it's hard to keep giving those people that next chance, the benefit of the doubt. And I'm just kind of curious how you kind of dealt with it or do you kind of feel how some of our clients have dealt with it? I mean, I'm just curious, I think I'd be a little, "Oh, they're probably not going to show up. It's just going to be like the last guy, it's going to suck."
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
It'd just be really easy know kind of plummet into everyone's out to get me, negative land and being an employer.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. I think you can feel that way and you do give employees a lot of trust and it does hurt when people have done things that didn't work out for me or for the company. Or they had a real cost to me and when you're growing your business, it can be this very personal thing. And one of the things that I learned over time was to separate as much as I can.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It's still my business and it's what I do full time and I think about it all the time. But separating my business from my personal self. So one of the exercises we've done together from Sandler-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
That I learned was the IR thing. So this is your identity versus your role.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And your role and work is different from your identity in the world. And it's one of the reasons I get dressed for work.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And then at the end of the day, I change into my ... I call them daddy clothes. I have a five and six year old and I'm ready to wrestle with them and they know that I'm not at work.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So those are some of the things that I did was I started distancing my personal life from the business, in a way. And that made it less of a personal thing when something would go wrong at work.
Robert Felton:
That makes sense.
Jack Jostes:
So that's one of the ways that I've learned to kind of-
Robert Felton:
So, how could a landscaper kind of use that? We know that there's a big labor problem. I mean, things are hard right now. I mean, I hear a lot of people just like, "Oh, they all suck."
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
I mean, could I use identity and role in that setting or-
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
How would you?
Jack Jostes:
Well, I think that's one of the ways of just managing the stress and showing up at work-
Robert Felton:
Oh, that makes sense.
Jack Jostes:
Is different from my personal life. But I think with the accidental employer, so what's similar, I think with our landscape clients is many of them are good at landscaping and many of them learned lawn mowing when they were 12-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Learning Leadership Skills Is As Important As Learning Skilled Trades
Jack Jostes:
And they started their own business and then they eventually got a trailer and then they eventually got professional equipment. And then they continued learning their trade and learning their craft. And I did that with digital marketing-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And in the early years, I went to like all of the SEO conferences and was-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Constantly learning and I'm still learning, I'm still doing that. But what I realized, I wasn't spending enough time on was learning the culture side, the leadership side. I always thought, like many of our clients said, that's kind of a bunch of BS. Having core values and a mission and a-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Company vision. I'm like, who needs that? We've got work to do, we've got websites-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
To build, we've got SEO to do.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
But then it was when I actually started investing the time in that and actually building our core values. And getting clear on what kind of employees do I really want here and what do they want?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Having the Right Data is Well Worth the Investment
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Aspire really is cool. A lot of people say, "Oh, it's too expensive." One of the lessons I learned in my business is that all data has a real cost in your company. There's either the cost of not knowing the data. Right. And, that cost might be just stress. I can be okay when we're losing money or it's a net loss and I know why. And I can point and say, "Okay, this was out of line, or this number was off." But this one I don't know, that's that does not feel good. Or you need to pay a bookkeeper or somebody, if they're crunching, "Oh, a spreadsheet is free." Well, somebody needs to do the labor of updating the spreadsheet. So talk to me a little bit about Aspire. And, is it worth the investment that it requires?
Scott Lesak:
Absolutely. It is beyond worth the investment that it requires. Landscapers and our industry is very behind on the tech curve right now, in my opinion. Going to any other industry, it's nothing to see people spending 10, 20, 30% of their revenue on tech solutions to operate their business. Aspire costs me about 1% of our revenue. And that's incredible. That is worth every single penny worth of it. So have to look at it as value instead of price. There were other solutions. We visited two other solutions that were both very good, just didn't quite fit exactly what we were looking for. They were both substantially cheaper. We could have bought both of those for less than more paying Aspire, but we would've had different systems running everything. We really liked the value that Aspire brought.
We were looked at originally, we wanted a CRM solution. We wanted work ticket management and scheduling solution. And we really wanted to be able to look at reporting and dig and into our numbers. Those were three things we were looking at. The piece we missed in our desires was the actual sales functions that we have in Aspire. And what I mean by that is estimating is effortless. We had a phenomenal estimating system before, arguably just as good as Aspire in a very fancy Excel spreadsheet. So it was really nice to come over to Aspire and have a very similar format.
The thing that Aspire added is what's called kits, and just some really easy ways that we can literally plug in a square foot amount of bed space that we have. And it auto calculates how much mulch, how much pre-emergent herbicide and how much labor it's going to take to put that mulch in that bed. Add a little bit of travel time in there for however many people are going on the crew and you're good to go. So that was cool.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. So, again, the cost of that data, how much time would it take to get that information with your old spreadsheet?
Scott Lesak:
A whole lot more than we're paying per month for Aspire, on that one task alone.
Jack Jostes:
This isn't all about Aspire. It kind of went in that direction. But there are programs out there. And there are some sweet spreadsheets that you can jerry-rig, right?
Scott Lesak:
Absolutely.
Create Your Company Culture
Jack Jostes:
I actually started deliberately building the culture here. And part of that wasn't all me, it was my wife, Cara and you've influenced that and employees have influenced it. But I think it would be helping is business, for our landscapers listening, actually investing the time in building your company, mission, vision, core values. And creating a place where people want to work. And part of that was deciding that I'm the leader of the company.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And that may sound weird, but like-
Robert Felton:
You've told me about this before.
Jack Jostes:
I don't know, like, so there was ... well-
Robert Felton:
You didn't want to be the owner or the CEO.
Jack Jostes:
I didn't think that I was qualified to be the CEO of the company.
Robert Felton:
Okay. I remember you telling me that.
Jack Jostes:
Right?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Because I didn't know anything about business and who am I to be the CEO? So I never had that job title. And then Chris and I co-owned the company and we were co-owners and I was the internet marketing director and he was the creative director. But no one was actually the CEO of the company. So there really wasn't a CEO of the company, there were just two owners of the company. Which is different from being the CEO of the company.
Robert Felton:
That makes sense. So it's stepping into that leadership role a little bit. And I think something that I like to point out here is, I mean, you were really collaborative when we were building. You kind of decided on the core values as the leader, but they were heavily influenced by us. There was a lot of balance, like what's important to us? What do you see in the best employees? So it's not something you want do in a dark room, it's something you want to do in a bit of a collaborative environment. Like what are these core values? Figuring out what's important to your employees. What kind of makes sense in your industry? Like, is flexibility really important? Is it that structure? So can you tell me a little bit about how you built the core values? You were like, I love them and I know we did some workshops. But there was a day where you came and there's grow and die on the table. And I was like, "Well, I like this one. It's really relatable." But I was like-
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, so.
Jack Jostes:
So the way we created them was partly from reading the book Traction by Gino Wickman.
Robert Felton:
Okay.
Jack Jostes:
One of the exercises in there is to write down the attributes of the employees that you're like, "Yeah, these people are pushing the company forward. I enjoy these people. I trust these people. I want more of people like this." And literally writing down, what are they doing? What are their attributes? And then equally, what are the people who I had to fire?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Or what are people who quit and like ... because we didn't mesh together.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And it was ultimately that we didn't share the same values. And so it was kind of an exercise of going through the good and then also like what didn't work? And then writing them and defining them.
Praise Partial Progress, Catch Em Doing Something Right, The One Minute Manager
Robert Felton:
I mean, we kind of talked about, you kind of have to be a bit of an accidental employer and then step it up. So I'm just curious, like if someone's in that setting, I mean, how did you learn to kind of trust employees again? What would you suggest to someone who's been like burned four or five times in the last year by people not showing up? I mean, maybe they have some of those core values, but I mean, what's kind of that thing that could get you ... we talked about head trash a lot.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
How can you get over that head trash? Because I think I would struggle with that. And I mean, if they kept kind of not performing and then kind of get a little jaded, I'm just curious, how can you kind of break that cycle if you maybe have a clue or something?
Jack Jostes:
So, well, one thing I learned from Wayne Haring, one of our coaches was to praise partial progress. So that's one of the things that ... and another thing, and this came from the book, One Minute Manager is to catch people doing something right. And we actually have our beef jerky club-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Where every week we are celebrating people doing a good job. And then we've created a system for other people to nominate other Ramblers for people doing a good job. And so part of it's, I think, having a perspective of gratitude.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. Those little wins.
Jack Jostes:
And-
Robert Felton:
And seeing them and appreciating them.
Jack Jostes:
Actually thinking about what's good. Because when you focus on what's good and you acknowledge it and you praise it, then you get more of what's good. And then it doesn't mean that we don't like redirect things when they're-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Off track or if there's a quality issue and maybe there's something I need to bring up one on one with somebody. But-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
By acknowledging what's good and then kind of being on the hunt for like, Hey, what's going well in the company?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I'm seeing more of it. And it's part of just creating, I think, a positive-
Robert Felton:
That makes sense because you could snowball in the negative. But you could also kind of snowball in the positive. And then, I mean, things seem to kind of go your way a little bit more.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Transitioning From The Owner To The CEO
Robert Felton:
You see more of those people who are doing the same positive things as things that you're pointing out and looking for. And it kind of could change that mindset. I like that. So we talked about accidental employer a lot. What does intentional leader mean?
Jack Jostes:
So an intentional is somebody who owns that role. So like when I had a business partner, it didn't work out. And after I bought them out, I decided to become the CEO of the company.
Robert Felton:
So it's a bit of a choice.
Jack Jostes:
And I wrote a new job description for myself. I didn't have a job description. And so part of it was owning that culture of the company and deciding that this is important. And if I'm going to grow the company ... because I could have retracted, I could be like a solo person doing everything and maybe I have-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
A handful of clients, but I wanted to grow a company that produced product for clients. And I knew I couldn't do everything. And part of it was ... I think it's really the mindset of choosing to be the leader of the company.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And then recognizing what skills don't I have. So I didn't have recruiting skills. I remember posting job ads and not getting a response.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I know a lot of people listening are having that experience. And one, we always have to say, there is a labor problem.
Robert Felton:
There is a labor problem.
Jack Jostes:
Like we can't like skirt around it and-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Pretend that all this marketing stuff is going to fix it, it's not. But it will attract the people who are looking for jobs.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Invest In The HR Resources Your Employees Need
Jack Jostes:
And they are out there. So one was that mindset and then two, well, what are the skills that I need to learn? And some of them, what are skills that I need to hire other people for? So in the last year, our company grew to a certain point where our operations manager and I couldn't just handle all of the HR and payroll stuff and our bookkeeper couldn't either. And that really bothers employees. If they're paid late, if they're paid the wrong amount and then you're slow responding to them about why they were paid late in the wrong amount. You can't really get away with that for very long.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. That goes bad quick.
Jack Jostes:
People will be understanding for like a little bit.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So then it was realizing like, "Wow, I need to spend more money on our own HR." And now we hired Guhroo.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And they are like our HR partner. That was an expense, but I needed to do that as the leader to give the employees the resources that they needed. So I think part of it's like do I need to spend more money on certain things? And then what are the things that I need to learn to do? Such as how to lead a meeting.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Now you've been here and our meetings are pretty dialed in. But there was a period where our meetings, like I would invite the whole company to the meeting, there was no agenda.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And it was really expensive and nothing was accomplished.
Robert Felton:
So funny to think about. Because they're so organized now.
Jack Jostes:
Now they're like-
Robert Felton:
You get everything done like one hour and a bit.
Jack Jostes:
Now they're done in like an hour, everyone in the company knows where everything in the company is at.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
We go over money, we go over our clients, we go over if we're hiring. Like we have a really efficient meeting. So I needed to learn how to structure that meeting to do that.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. So just kind of thinking about bringing it back a little bit to landscaping, I mean, we met Jim Turcan and saw his office today-
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
And I mean, I was just curious, can you give us some examples of maybe some intentional leaders and some attributes? Or I don't know, some clues on ... I mean, it's kind of a theoretical thing and I like what you said. But how do we kind of bring it back? How do I identity this? Let's try to-
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
Prove some of those.
Jack Jostes:
Well, one of the things that I learned, so we did a video for Cornerstone-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
For Jim Turkin for CP Hort.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. CP Hort.
An Interview With The Employees Of A Top Chicagoland Landscape Contractor About The Company Culture
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. And I got to interview about five of their employees. And that was super inspiring because they love working for Turkin. And he's a super humble guy, he probably wouldn't have said all ... there's no way he would even know all of these things.
Robert Felton:
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
But I got to interview his people and they were things about flexibility and feeling trusted and working on a team that does really quality work. And one of his employees, Josh, I was like, "Hey, Josh, there's a little bit of dust on the dash. Can you wipe that down?" And he goes in and gets a spray bottle and several cloths and like made the car perfect. And so they're a lot like Turk, in the sense that-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Like, they really want to do a really good job. And let's actually roll some clips from those interviews with the CP Hort people.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, totally.
Kevin:
So I've been in the green industry my whole life. And one of the things that attracted me to Cornerstone was the small business family environment. I think flexibility is important to me because it allows me to control my schedule in a way that works best for both me, my family, as well as serving my clients.
Joe:
My favorite part about working at CP Hort is the overall company culture and the flexibility to really do your job how you have to do it. Still having accountability, but there's no one really looking over your shoulders and micromanaging.
Carlos:
CP Hort does a lot of things different. They value time with family and the hard work that you do.
Josh:
I like working at CP Hort because I really like working with the team we have. The culture at CP Hort is one of a family environment. We really get along well and that really facilitates good teamwork.
Turk is the owner of our company and he's visible in our daily interactions. He is someone that is a good leader. He leads by teaching and making sure that we're doing the best we can. It's the CP Hort way to do it the right way every time.
Speaker 9:
Some other companies don't value what you do. CP Hort does.
Josh:
Come join our team at CP Hort.
Carlos
We're just waiting for you. Come and work with us.
Build Company Standards To Establish Company Culture
Jack Jostes:
So one of our clients, a landscaper, who has a noon to noon promise. And-
Robert Felton:
It's probably one of the best solid things [crosstalk 00:18:44]-
Jack Jostes:
So what I love about that is that ... so basically if you called our office before noon, someone will call you that same day afternoon.
Robert Felton:
No, they'll call you back by noon that day.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, by noon.
Robert Felton:
So they kind of have a call set up in the morning. So if you call before noon, you get a call back by noon. You call afternoon, you get a call back by noon the next business day.
Jack Jostes:
Okay.
Robert Felton:
That allows them to control that they're going to have to manage the phone in the mornings, but in the afternoon now they don't have to. The promise is to take care of it. So they have the whole afternoon to get work done. I mean, you could silence your phones pretty much at that point. And I think that's so cool. It gives them control.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Well, and so that's an example of intentional leadership. They're thinking about how do they want their customers to feel, how do they want their employees to feel? And they're making it a policy and it's part of their culture. Do sometimes people call them outside of that window? Yeah. Probably. But not very often.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So that's, I think an example of intentional leadership-
Robert Felton:
That makes sense.
Jack Jostes:
Of thinking about, what do I want the outcome to be? What do I want the customer experience? What do I want my employee experience to be like?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Learn To Write Job Advertisements
Jack Jostes:
The other part of intentional leadership is learning to write job advertisements.
Robert Felton:
And I would never think that. But yeah, that makes sense.
Jack Jostes:
Because a lot of times I think you've got to take ownership. Like if recruiting is the biggest problem in your business, you should be working on it. You should be learning, how does recruiting work? How do people find jobs? And maybe you don't become a great advertising copywriter, but you at least know how to evaluate what's good copy and what's bad copy.
Robert Felton:
Who was it that said that? It was just like, what's the biggest problem in my business? And then started investing time. Oh, what's his name? Martin ... Wade, right? Wade Martin.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Wade Martin.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Exactly.
Robert Felton:
[crosstalk 00:20:27], he was really good.
Jack Jostes:
So we were interviewing Wade-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I was trying to think of where ... I think that came from another podcast. Yeah, it was from Wade Martin's interview about Culture Coins.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
He's working on it.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So that's an example of intentional leadership. Instead of saying, "Oh, I can't hire anyone. Employees are rotten. Everybody steals from me." Okay. Like some employees are rotten-
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Some people have stolen from me. But I'm going to focus on writing a better job advertisement. I'm going to do new things to get people applying to my roles.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. I think one of my favorite things about this is there's not really a negative and a positive. There's unique landscaping, which I don't know where it went, but I thought something that was really interesting is like, Donna said, "We are morning people. We're morning people." She's like, "If you are a morning person, you will like working here. You'll actually like hiring us because we get there early. We get it done. We're out of there before your kids come home." I mean, for some people that's really attractive and for other people, that's not attractive.
Robert Felton:
It's the same as the beef jerky promise. Like some people are chronically late and they don't think it's a big deal. They're not going to be a good fit for Ramblin Jackson, that's okay. I mean, that's not inherently negative, but it's like, if you appreciate that, which I do, I know Jessica does, I know you do. Being on time, being prepared. I mean, I appreciate that and I expect that and I like working at Ramblin Jackson because of that. I think that's something that's really cool about this. I mean, it's not bad to be an ... I mean, if you want to scale your business back and be small and you don't want to be a big leader of a company, that's okay. But it's a choice. And I don't know, I'm getting a little tongue tied here. But I like that it's not one or the other, it's not good or bad. It's more like, do you connect with this value? And if you are, then you're in the right place. And that just speaks such volumes to potential employees.
Jack Jostes:
Absolutely.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
All right. Well, Robert, this was fun. Thanks for talking. And it's a pleasure working with you. Glad to have you at the show and to do another interview with you.
Robert Felton:
Glad to be part of the team. I enjoy being here in I Landscapes. I enjoy working with you and mean I enjoy the beef jerky promise.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, me too. All right, everyone. Well, thanks so much for checking out today's episode. And I'd love to hear your perspective on leadership. What's working? What isn't working? And are you an accidental employer or an intentional leader? If you'd like to learn more, check out our other podcast episodes and make sure you subscribe at RamblinJackson.com/podcast.
Jack Jostes:
Right now I'm at I Landscape 2020. That's the green industry trade show put on-
Robert Felton:
Start over. You said 2020?
Jack Jostes:
Did I?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Holy crap. It's not 2020. Okay.