What's changed in selling landscaping in the last six years? A lot has changed. And in today's episode, I'm excited to interview our Senior Landscape Marketing Strategist, Robert Felton, who's worked with me at the Ramblin Jackson team for over six years. And in this episode, we talk about what's working for some of our clients for digital marketing, other things that they're doing to generate leads now. We talk about how the role of your website, of my website, of the sales person, I believe, in business, and especially landscaping, has changed over the last few years. And, we're going to give you some strategies that you can use that'll help you build your digital presence quickly now to get results, and over time. And why SEO, your digital presence, is a lot like real estate.
Hey everyone, Jack Jostes here and welcome to The Landscapers Guide Podcast, where we share sales, marketing, and leadership inspiration for the snow and landscape industry. Today, I'm excited to interview one of our top employees at Ramblin Jackson, Robert Felton. He's a wealth of knowledge. Many of you have worked with Robert, he's a really smart guy with a lot of really great business ideas he's going to share today. And, wanted to let you know, we'd love to send you some beef jerky and our Landscapers Marketing Toolbox. So, see our show notes for a link to landscapersguide.com/toolbox and tell us where to send it.
All right, let's get into this conversation with Robert.
All right everyone, welcome back to Landscapers Guide. Today I'm excited to interview Robert Felton. He's our Senior Landscape Marketing Strategist at Ramblin Jackson. We've been working together for six years?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I think we're celebrating six years in February?
Robert Felton:
That is correct.
Jack Jostes:
So, there-
Robert Felton:
That is. We're close.
Jack Jostes:
We're close, we're really close, depending on when people watch this.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
But, really excited to have you here.
Robert Felton:
Thanks. I'm excited to be here. It's always fun to come to the studio. It's such a cool place in Lyons. It's just a fun place to be.
Jack Jostes:
It is fun.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It's been a great day.
Robert Felton:
It has.
Jack Jostes:
We've interviewed some clients, some client stories. You're going to be sharing their stories. You're presenting at the ProGreen Expo.
Robert Felton:
I know, I'm so excited. I can't believe I'm... Yeah, I'm going to be on the big stage for once, though.
Jack Jostes:
Well, and I'm excited because that was show the, first green industry show, that I presented at and that helped us get a variety of garden centers, arborists, landscape clients that then, led me to really discover that industry again. I worked at a garden center growing up.
Robert Felton:
It's kind of the beginning of it all for Green Industry, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It is. It is. And so, I'm excited for you to speak there.
So today, we're going to talk about that at the end a little bit what you're talking about.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
But, I think we want to talk about real estate. So we were having dinner last night and we were talking about real estate, and SEO. And why SEO, search engine optimization, is like real estate. And the analogy I made with you seemed to resonate with you. So I wanted to-
Robert Felton):
Yeah, I think it made sense. I've been talking with clients, and just how the market changes and how you want to have a balanced portfolio going into your marketing. You can't just put all your eggs in SEO, it's risky. It's like buying a bunch of penny stocks versus having a mutual fund and having diversity. And investments in real estate are one of the biggest ones. So yeah, can you tell everybody else what you said...
03:41: The comparisons between Real Estate and SEO for Landscapers
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
... about that comparison of real estate to SEO?
Jack Jostes:
Well, so to me, there are a lot of parallels between real estate and SEO. One is, sometimes people come to us and in the ninth month or the 12th month of working together, "Well, this is really expensive," and it is. It's an investment with Ramblin Jackson. And a big portion of it is focused on organic SEO, ranking on Google, generating leads that way. And I still believe it's one of the best sources of leads for landscape companies because so many people search on the internet for landscape companies. There's the numbers to back it up from Google Trends, the searches for it.
But then, we just interviewed two clients today, and we have numerous others, and we look at the leads that come through their website, and we ask, "How did you hear of us?"
And it's typically the number one source.
And like a house, the analogy that I was making is, when you buy a house, you have your down payment, all of your closing costs. Maybe you need to fix and repair stuff.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And then you have your mortgage. And if you thought about that, in a one-year period, like, "Wow, it's a ripoff."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
You should probably just rent because you're not going to spend anywhere near that.
But like real estate, when you're investing in SEO, it's something that a page that we build this month or this year is going to be maintained, and it's going to rank next year, and the year after that, and we might use that.
We have some clients that have worked with us for over 10 years and there's pages that I personally built for them 10 years ago that still rank now and have generated thousands of leads for them. But if we evaluated it in the six months after launching it, the cost per acquisition, the business math around marketing and, "Well, how much am I paying per lead and per customer..."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... it's going to be higher. And, like a house over time, you're going to live in it, you're going to stay with it. And when you think of it that way, if you look at over a five-year period...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... it's one of the least expensive ways that you'll pay for marketing because, in that same time, if you were to pay for Google Ads...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... which I do recommend that people have some Google Ads, but once you stop paying for that, it goes away. It is not an asset.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It's a liability, it's gone. You don't have much ongoing value from it.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it was fun to talk to Jake Harris from Jake's Designs today and hear him talk about the Broadmoor page. Because I think we made the first Broadmoor page, probably five, maybe even six years ago.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
It still ranks, it still gets in those results. And if we just evaluated the value of that Broadmoor page for that first six months, he got some good results. But it's still, it's, "Oh, I got two leads for this much money."
But now it's like, it's got I think maybe even 12 pages for the Broadmoor.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, yeah.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
He's killing it.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And it's one of his top areas.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
07:00 Why Location, Location, Location Matters for SEO
Jack Jostes:
And so, the other reason that I felt like SEO is similar to real estate is there's the saying in real estate, "Location, location, location."
Robert Felton:
Yes.
Jack Jostes:
And so, buying a property in a thriving location, if you're investing in real estate...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... the location is everything. Are there good customers?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Are you opening a restaurant in an area that has foot traffic from other people buying at retail? Or, is it the middle of nowhere and it really needs to be a destination that people need to go to?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
You're going to pay more to be on the mall with all the foot traffic, but you're going to get all those customers.
Robert Felton:
It's also the people who move quicker, get a better deal. And I think that's an important way to think about SEO, as Jake's one of the first people to have a Broadmoor page. Other people are making them, but he's already light years ahead. He got it when it was cheaper.
Jack Jostes:
Years ahead.
Robert Felton:
Exactly.
Jack Jostes:
He's years ahead. So the location thing, so Colorado has changed so much.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And so, we were talking with Jake about, I think he met his wife, did he say at CSU up in Fort Collins?
Robert Felton:
Yeah, he was in CSU and his wife was going to school down in Colorado Springs.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, yeah.
Robert Felton:
And he would make the drive. And it took him an hour and 45 minutes, an hour and 45 minutes...
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
... to get from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. And so, for people who are listening from out of state, that's now a...
Robert Felton:
It's not possible.
Jack Jostes:
... at least a four-hour drive.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Maybe even five.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Because the population has grown so much, and there's so much traffic now, and there's so many people.
We have another client in the Fort Collins area, and I've been in Colorado for 15 years and Timnath, it wasn't even a word I used to know how to say in Colorado, it was like this tiny little town. And now it's a thriving area. And there's Windsor.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And there's all these areas that in the last five years, five to 10 years, have grown. And because our client, Alpine Gardens, is up there and they're ranking, they're getting the leads there.
Robert Felton:
And they were fast to move on a Windsor page. They knew it was coming.
Jack Jostes:
They knew it was coming. And so, I think in SEO, there's a certain amount of data that's available. Like there's Google Keyword Planner.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
09:16: How Google Keyword Search Predicts Market Growth
Jack Jostes:
You can get data from Google Ads about how much volume, how many searches are there a month for landscaping versus, landscape design, versus outdoor living. Or there's Google Trends, there's other sources of data. But there isn't necessarily always all the data about Timnath, or Windsor, there's just not enough searches. There's not really a reason that Google would give us that information.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So, that's, to me, where the entrepreneurial part of it is, is anticipating the location.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Anticipating and seeing for Jake down in Broadmoor, seeing, "Oh, Flying Horse is an up and coming area. I'm going to experiment with building pages for here."
And we knew the keywords, the service keywords, but then we were experimenting with the geography. And it paid off because that area, that population was growing.
So, in our approach with clients, I think we can help them, or people listening, like, "Where is the market heading in your area?"
Robert Felton:
Yeah. I also think it's so important that the client is an expert on their territory and where they service their service market. And I think it's funny, because so many clients, they know all the best zip codes because they're used to doing direct mail, they're used to doing yellow pages. But it's like, we're in a new game. And really where you need to be paying attention is, "Where's new development? Where are things happening? What's the up and coming?," because we can help. And there is some data. But a lot of it is that entrepreneurial, that gut feeling.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
And that's really paying off for clients. The people, the Windsor page is paying off, the Flying Horse page is paying off, the Broadmoor page is paying off. So, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And this is working also in Texas. We have clients, a lot of people are like, "Oh, it's different in Texas, or Illinois or, Virginia."
Everyone thinks their area is special.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It's not It's not. People use the internet everywhere in America.
So was there anything else on real estate that you think is similar? Well, and part of it was just you asked me, like, "Hey, I'm getting people asking like, 'Wow, this is really expensive in the first year.'"
And I just thought about your own personal story.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I'm not going to ask how much your house was, but you've told me.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I've bought real estate in Colorado. And man, am I glad that I did.
Robert Felton:
Oh, yes.
Jack Jostes:
Because now, the cost to get in now, even a year later, or two years later, or five years later, is so much higher. And I think that's similar to building your digital presence online because the longer you wait, the further behind you're going to be behind the people who are years ahead of you.
11:46: Why Building a Digital Presence is Like Buying a House
I just had a call with a client today who was a little frustrated about where they were ranking on Google. I'm like, "Hey, dude, you're on the first page. This is probably as good as you're going to get for now."
And they were like, "Well, what do you mean, I get emails from SEO companies who guarantee this and this."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I'm like, "Cool, hire them."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
"Good luck. I don't know what they're going to do."
12:52: How Domain Authority Affects Google Search Rankings
But, I then looked up the age of the website of the company that was outranking them and they had a 15-year advantage. So their domain, over 15 years prior to this client starting their business, had 15 years of links being built to their website.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And so their domain authority, their equity, if you will, in the internet...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... is way higher. It's like my parents, who bought their house in the '90s, right, they have so much more equity in their house.
Robert Felton
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Whereas, I'm a little pip squeak in the equity game...
Robert Felton:
Yeah, That makes total sense.
Jack Jostes:
... of real estate. I bought mine five years ago.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Whereas, they're at the tail end of a 30-year mortgage.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So, I don't know.
13:17: Why SEO is a “Retirement Investment” for Landscape Companies
Robert Felton:
I think the last thing about real estate is, it's really thinking, SEO and real estate, it's thinking into the future.
Jack Jostes:
It is.
Robert Felton:
Talking about these neighborhoods, getting the most out of that equity. If we can anticipate, we can think ahead. The hardest part is those people who made the wrong decision, and sold at the wrong time, and did that because they were jumping around. And that's how I compare it to that balanced portfolio is like, SEO is your retirement. It's the thing you don't want to touch. You want it to keep growing, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
You keep putting in and it pulls more out over time.
So, one of the things that I'm excited that, so you're presenting three Colorado case studies at the ProGreen Expo of three different landscape companies. And I'm excited, because one of them is a multimillion dollar, full service company that does design build, they do maintenance, they do commercial, they do some snow.
Then we've got Jake's, who's only design build.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And then also we have more of the lawn care, and mowing, landscaping side, with All Purpose. And so, we just interviewed All Purpose and that podcast is going to come out soon.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
It was really fun. And I told them on the interview that they're one of my favorite clients, because they do the rest of it. This company did direct mail, they do emails, they have email automations, they did 6,000 phone calls.
Robert Felton:
That was crazy.
Jack Jostes:
Right?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So they are not only doing SEO, SEO and their website is a huge part of their results, and they came here and talked about that.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
They did a testimonial.
I wanted to talk with you about some of the short-term strategies that we're recommending to clients because, similar to real estate, I think there's the macro market, meaning there was the housing crash of 2008.
Robert Felton:
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
And then, we talked to Jake and he's like, "Yeah, dude, I bought my house in 2011, and basically stole it from the price a few years ago."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
15:37: What We Can Learn from Economic Cycles & Apply in Business
Jack Jostes:
So, I think there are cycles in the economy and that, my sense of the last six to 12 months was that we were in a lower market. And that there were fewer searches for landscaping because people, there's inflation, and maybe they bought their landscaping during the COVID years.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So there was, objectively, we can measure fewer searches on Google, and that resulted in fewer leads. But that doesn't mean you should stop doing SEO because these cycles repeat themselves. And if you get in now, and you've been slow and steady this year, and when that comes back, you're going to catch that wave of search leads. Like our clients, honestly, who've been with us for six years, killed it.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. Imagine having all of, everything in place going into 2020, like we thought it was going to be something crazy. But it was just like, the searches reached the highest point they were. And if you were the one who showed up first, you were the one who got the pick of the crop.
I think the other thing is being prepared going into the next time that this demand can get that high, is not only having great SEO, but also having that sales process. I think that's something that we learned really quick was, there's so much demand and you can't waste time. And you have the pick of the crop because you're ranking the best. You invested in great SEO in 2017-'18, now you're going in 2020-'21, you're getting tons of leads and you need to make sure that you're picking the right ones.
But you've got to be prepared with a great sales process, with a great website, that's user-friendly, and has a process, a user experience, and you have to have great ranking SEO. So when the market does spike back, you are ready to go. You're going to get so much out of that investment. And maybe you've been paying for it for a few years, but, yeah, the people who hired us in 2017 are very happy campers.
Jack Jostes:
They really are.
And then, in the meantime, though, I think that when the market is maybe lower, I think you need to spend more, actually, on marketing and actual advertising, like paid media. So that could be Google Ads, it could be Facebook and Instagram ads, direct mail.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And also, one of the lowest-hanging fruit is email. Usually the first conversation I have with people is like, "Well, who can we email?"
And so, we interviewed All Purpose and they're going to share their podcast is going to be great because they have Service Autopilot.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
They know they have everything dialed in. They have over 4,000 leads in there.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Some of them are customers. Or no, 6,000. So 4,000, I think they've worked with 4,000 customers. So they've got them all tagged by, "Did they buy landscaping? Did they buy lawn mowing? Did they buy Christmas lights? Have they done a construction project or not?"
And they can very easily, with very minimal time, send out the perfect message to those segmented lists.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I'm always impressed. And they have such a good process of getting people in. They sell mowing and then, "You have mowing? Oh, next one's lawn care. Okay, you have these two services, you'd benefit greatly from this one."
They can quickly filter the list. And it's like, "You don't have this service, you don't have deep root watering," so you can send out an email, and just quickly get that list, and execute something, and drum up business like that.
Yeah. I sometimes compare the advertising spending more when the market's down a little bit, it's important to keep investing in the long term with organic. It's also, you got to inspire the people to be interested in these products, again. Thinking about specific products like a plunge pool, or a putting green that follows you around, something you've been wanting.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
And yeah, you wish you bought it in 2021, where it was cheaper, and money was cheaper, but you still really want it.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
And you're still going to buy it, but you have to maybe inspire it a little bit more. So finding that balance, I think, is important.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Or, I think inspiring people, and that's where I think things like social media and email do come into place, especially with photos.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
We're always collecting reviews and always collecting photos of new products that we're offering. And maybe you're focusing on front yards right now.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Maybe people did their backyard and now you would like to do that smaller front yard.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Or replace people's beds. Or maybe they need a new walkway. And that's where, I think, that's, again, where I would always turn to email first of, "Who has already bought from me that could buy something else?," is going to be your lowest barrier to entry.
20:22: Why Google Reviews Should Be Every Landscaper’s #1 Priority
Robert Felton:
I agree. And I think one other thing to always just keep in mind, and I feel sometimes every time I'm on this podcast, I say this, but it's just like, I have so many people that have three Google reviews. And they're talking about how they need to spend money on Facebook ads. I'm like, "You're going to get way more bang for your buck just getting those 10 Google reviews first."
I would say maybe even several thousand at Facebook, you probably would get better results just getting to that 10 mark. And it's just like people want to throw money to solve problems, but they seem to struggle with, "You might have to call those clients and get those 10 reviews and that."
Yeah. I don't know. Flip the thing, a dollar saved is a dollar made.
Jack Jostes:
Well, so you were talking to me about procurement.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I love procurement.
Jack Jostes:
That sounds like-
Robert Felton:
Yeah, it is procurement. My partner and I, we always giggle. It's like, sometimes, we're out downtown Denver and I live maybe a mile from downtown Denver, and we'll pull up Uber and if it's $30, Andy I've trained Andy. He asks me at this point, he's like, not trained Andy, but he will go, "Well, if someone gave you $30 right now to walk home, would you do it?"
And yes, I would, almost always, "Thirty bucks just to walk one mile. I do it all the time for free with my dog."
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
So if you flip that agenda a little bit, it's so much easier to think about money. And so many people don't think about money that way. They think, "Oh yeah, 'oh, 30 bucks to go home, I have to get home.'"
I don't know. It's flipping that narrative a little bit.
If someone gave you $5,000, which you might spend on Facebook, to go call your clients to get seven more reviews, would you do it? Yeah. You want to give me $5,000 to call seven people? I'll do it for you. People really struggle with flipping that narrative of money.
Jack Jostes:
Well, the value of those reviews could be worth that much.
Robert Felton:
I think it is.
22:15: How Digital Priorities Have Shifted for Landscape Companies in the Last Several Years
Jack Jostes:
It is. Because when we Google things, Google doesn't tell us much. But if you Google how Google determines local ranking, they have a page about how Google determines local ranking and they explicitly mentioned the review count and score.
Robert Felton:
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
So they are telling us.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
If they're telling us something like that, we should pay attention.
But then back to, how does it impact your Facebook ads?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I don't know if I'm going to spend five grand on something, I'm going to Google whoever I'm going to spend it with.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And that's where, if you have a three star review average, "Cool. Thanks for telling me about yourself on Facebook."
Robert Felton:
Yeah. And that's how I feel, too.
Jack Jostes:
Good luck.
Robert Felton
It's just funny to me. They're looking to spend money and I'm like, "Let's do this first," it just makes so much more sense.
Jack Jostes:
So, you've worked at Ramblin Jackson for six years.
Robert Felton:
Yes, I have.
Jack Jostes:
So I'm curious, what's similar to 2017? So you worked at Ramblin Jackson.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And then for a period, you didn't work here. And that's okay. And Ramblin Jackson became a better place to work...
Robert Felton:
It did, yes, I remember that.
Jack Jostes:
... while you were gone. And then I called you. And I was like, "Hey, here's what we're doing. And you went and did something that didn't work out how you thought it would work out."
So I'm really grateful that we...
Robert Felton:
Me, too. I'm glad we-
Jack Jostes:
... did that and that you came back.
Robert Felton:
Oh, agreed to another shot. And it's been great. Yeah, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And so that was nearly three years ago...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I think, or four.
Robert Felton:
It was 2019 I started coming back. And then you offered me a full-time position right before the pandemic.
Jack Jostes:
That's right.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, it was February 2020. Yep.
Jack Jostes:
That's right. Okay. Yeah. So that's making sense. But I guess what I'm getting at is, what do you do here? So what do you do here, and how has it changed, and how hasn't it changed? I'm just curious to hear because you've literally talked with, maybe even over a thousand landscape people.
Robert Felton:
I think it's definitely a thousand, at this point.
Jack Jostes:
You've talked with many people. So, what's your sense of what's similar and what's different?
Robert Felton:
Yeah. Do you mean in the market or in my positions?
Jack Jostes :
Both.
Robert Felton:
Both? Okay.
Yeah, in the market, it's funny, because we joke about it all the time. In 2017, we were starting, especially in certain areas, it was like, "You need to get on the internet."
Jack Jostes:
Yes.
Robert Felton:
You know what I mean? It was just like, "I don't need the internet, word of mouth, blah, blah, blah," which is important. But it was just like this fight to, "You should get online. You should have pages."
And now, it's a lot more about how your website is and does it work on mobile? Is it helping set up the sale? Is there some automation? These things, that's really the big change I've seen...
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, definitely.
Robert Felton:
... is fighting to get on the internet and away from some of those traditional marketing, that's really not working as well as it used to. To now, it's about having a better experience on your website. It's about having that video. It's about educating your clients about things they don't understand. Especially, it's a different market for trades, landscaping, a lot of people don't have any idea what it could cost. But if you ask my Grandpa something about construction, he'll know all the answers. And his price point and what is today is very different.
Jack Jostes:
Why does your grandpa know?
Robert Felton:
Because my Grandpa grew up in an era and he owns, one of my Grandpas is an engineer, and then my other Grandpa, he owned a construction company.
Jack Jostes:
Right. So I just thought people I know that...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So, yeah, your grandpa was informed on it.
Robert Felton:
Exactly.
Jack Jostes:
Whereas, most people aren't as well-informed. And I think that they are, I think a big trend and something that we've helped people with is they look for pricing information.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
People do so much research online for everything. I think that the reliance on salespeople has really gone down. Because back before the internet, and I started in 2009, and man, was that a fight to get people on the internet.
Robert Felton:
I can only imagine.
Jack Jostes:
That was where people were like... I remember I met with this law firm in Boulder.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And they're like, "Well, we've been spending $40,000 a year on the Yellow Pages."
And I was like, "And we've been doing that for 25 years."
And it was like, "This is what we do and this is how we've been doing it."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I was just like, "Well, how is that working in the last few years?"
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And they're like, "Well, not very well."
But they also, I think part of it was just a fear of, they were resistant partly just out of fear and a lack of understanding of how the internet worked.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Yeah, I think another change is going back to the salesperson. We are used to being qualified and understanding a product from a website. If you're buying a car. I think the car market has been the biggest change. Car salesman is an archetype from the past of... Nowadays, I Google, "Oh, I like this Subaru. I can upgrade it online."
You even got a car delivered to your house
Jack Jostes:
I did. I actually bought a car from my iPhone.
Robert Felton:
That's so crazy to me.
Jack Jostes:
And that was two weeks before COVID broke out, by the way. I so lucked out.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
I got a used truck, a used pickup truck.
Robert Felton:
Those are the most expensive thing through that, by the way.
Jack Jostes:
And then a month later, it was the most sought-after thing.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And the world was like a used pickup truck. But yeah, I bought it entirely, I actually bought it from my phone...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... from CarMax, and they delivered it to my house. I appraised my trade-in from my phone. I took photos. They had a human come.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And they're like, "Yeah. You're not hiding anything."
And they gave me the value that they told me they would for my trade-in, and drove it away, and completed all the paperwork.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
That was wild.
Robert Felton:
And I think that's the big change that's happening between 2017 and now is, your website has to be a salesperson. You always joke about, "Your website works 24 hours, doesn't get sick."
And it's so true right now.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, yeah.
28:20: Why Your Website Needs to Convey a Clear Sales Process
Robert Felton:
And I can't stress how important those automations are. That information...
Jack Jostes:
For sure.
Robert Felton:
... that education. And I talk with clients about, I think what's changed in my position is helping build that sales person...
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
... that website is. You need something that's a win-win, and it's something-
Jack Jostes:
Sure. So tell me more about that. Because when you started here, and I think the pendulum has swung back a bit into the lead generation camp.
Robert Felton:
I agree.
Jack Jostes:
So when you started here, it was very much, people were like, "We need leads. We need leads."
And then it was demand for landscaping really increased, and COVID happened, and it was like, "We need help qualifying all of these leads so we don't have to talk to all of them."
Robert Felton
Yes.
Jack Jostes:
And we shifted really hard into sales process, and coaching people, and qualification, and building-out pricing guides.
Robert Felton:
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
And I'm really glad that we did and we're going to continue doing that.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So that was a huge change. So how do you help people with that?
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Because you're a key part of helping our clients with their sales process through the Project Kickoff at our Brand Strategy Workshop.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, it's been fun. I've been through, I've talked to a thousand landscapers, so there's so many similarities, but everyone is just a little bit different. Their sales process, their buying experience. I do the Project Kickoff, which is the beginning of the project. It's a strategy-focused meeting. And it's really talking about the flow of the website. Why would you build a website where, "Oh, what is the goal? What do you want them to do?"
And that's what I really help them with is getting them from, they're interested, they're playing around on the website; to, educating themself; to, take action.
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
And that's really what we do is, we lay out these steps. We have some processes that have worked, even the 15-minute call has changed so many clients' lives. And, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Honestly, it's so-
Robert Felton:
Driving out there without qualifying your lead.
Jack Jostes:
So you do sales...
Robert Felton:
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
.. but you also help them with their sales.
Robert Felton:
Correct.
Jack Jostes:
So it's like a design engineer model, in some ways, that we do as a company. Where we're like, "Yeah, you're buying from us and we are selling to you, but we're also, in that process, extracting problems, and identifying challenges in your sales process, and then building something that helps you."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And I think that's what's fun is, we got a Google review from John Stanton from Dream Greener, before we even launched his website.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And he's like, "You all helped me with my sales process. And even before we launched the website, I already started closing more sales."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
And now we've got that website launched, I'm so excited for him to go into next spring, because then now he's got a better sales process and the website is a part of that.
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So I think that's, to me, one of the things that's changed is, and that's just partly a reaction, not a reaction, well, yeah, listening to our clients and hearing them talk about how challenging it was getting so many leads.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. And I think that win-win part is really important. And a lot of people struggle with that. People think about selling like it's a one-sided thing. Like, "Oh, this is my qualification call. I'm qualifying them. I need to go out there and get measurements."
It's like, no, it needs to be something that is a win-win.
Jack Jostes:
I agree. Yeah, right.
Robert Felton:
The client needs to be able to get excited about working with you. They need to start getting some of their questions answered. And then you need to start setting up those next steps. And the benefit of the customer loves it, you're also getting great information. They're telling you their budget. While they're learning, they're sharing this information with you through their website, and that's what's important.
Jack Jostes:
I agree. And I've always viewed sales as problem-solving, right? It's like, "Yeah. We're selling, but we're solving a problem."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
"We're figuring out a problem and solving it."
And I think that's similar to selling landscaping, because the best people that we know are listening to their clients, they're designing things, they're helping them figure out.
Robert Felton
Yep.
Jack Jostes:
And I think what's similar is that a lot of times people don't know what they want from landscaping. They know that they want their backyard to be better, "But no, maybe I actually hadn't thought about drainage."
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
"I actually hadn't thought about the gutters of my house and where the water," like, you know what I mean? All these little things that a landscape professional would ask you and help you think about, that's adding value in the sales process.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. I talk about value propositions a lot, too, in that first meeting of just like, you're asking them to make an investment of time and a commitment. What do they get for it? You need to tell that value proposition. And a lot of people don't do that. And a website can really help support that.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, totally. Branding the value proposition of the meeting.
Robert Felton:
Yep. That's the biggest one. Why-
Jack Jostes:
Why would I meet with you?
Robert Felton:
Why do I want to do this? Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Because there's resistance to salespeople.
Robert Felton:
Oh, big resistance.
Jack Jostes:
There's like, "Why would I," right?
And so, that's where the more you put out on your website, the right info, their trust goes up, and their guard comes down a little. And then you make that first meeting enticing.
So we could talk all day about this.
Robert Felton:
Yes, we could.
33:34: Sneak Peek of Robert’s Presentation at The ProGREEN Expo
Jack Jostes:
What are you presenting on at the ProGreen Expo?
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I'm presenting on What's Working Now for Three Landscape Contractors in Colorado. So you mentioned them earlier, It's Jake's Designs, All Purpose Landscaping, and Alpine Landscaping. So one's in Fort Collins, one's in Colorado Springs, and one's in Pueblo. So it's going to be a fun variety of the front range.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
So I'm really looking forward to it. It's fun because they've all come with specific problems, and then we've helped find the solutions. And they're all very different. But some of the tools are very, very similar that help them reach these results.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
Robert Felton:
So it's fun of like, "Yeah, you do need the foundation. That part's really important."
And then you can wiggle around in that strategic three, but some of those core items are really important. So I'm really looking forward to sharing it.
Jack Jostes:
So you've done a fair amount of webinars and things with Ramblin Jackson.
Robert Felton:
I have.
Jack Jostes:
This is, I believe, your debut in-person?
Robert Felton:
Yeah, it's my first live presentations. So, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
Live presentations. So how do you feel about it?
Robert Felton:
I am excited. I'm a little nervous. I've been super assistant for you. I think you're going to be super assistant for me, this time.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. I'm looking forward to being behind, I'm going to be getting you stuff.
Robert Felton:
Yeah. It's going to be really funny.
Jack Jostes:
And I'm excited to film it and...
Robert Felton:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes:
... see you.
Robert Felton:
I'm looking forward to it, I'm a little nervous about the tech and things like that, but that's always-
Jack Jostes:
Right.
Robert Felton:
I like to talk and I'm excited. I got to figure out my timing and a few other things.
Jack Jostes:
Yes, yeah.
Robert Felton:
But I am really looking forward to it.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, you're going to do great.
Robert Felton:
Yeah, I think so.
Jack Jostes:
Well, awesome. Pleasure working with you. And...
Robert Felton:
Always fun to be on the podcast.
Jack Jostes:
... congrats on six years of Ramblin.
Robert Felton:
Thank you. Yeah, Ramblin on.
Jack Jostes:
Ramblin on. That's really cool.
And lots of great ideas. So everyone, thanks so much for checking out today's podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this. We'd love to send you some beef jerky and a marketing toolbox, that has a bunch of, actually, some of the clients that we mentioned that Robert is going to be presenting are in this Field Guide with examples of what's working for them. So get inspired with that. Let us send it to you at landscapersguide.com/toolbox.
My name's Jack Jostes. This was Robert Felton.
And if you want to meet with Robert, by the way, just go to our website, schedule a brainstorm, call landscapersguide.com/brainstorm, Robert, we'll have a conversation with you about your goals, and your process, all those different things.
And be sure to come see him if you're in Colorado at the ProGreen Expo.
All right, everyone, thanks so much. Look forward to talking to you next week on The Landscaper's Guide.
Show Notes:
Watch the full episode + see the transcript at: https://landscapersguide.com/podcast/
Tell us where to send your beef jerky: https://landscapersguide.com/toolbox
Hear Robert Felton’s presentation at the ProGreen Expo on Jan 30th in Denver, CO: http://progreenexpo.com