00:00 – Intro: Can Google Reviews Beat Big Brands?
[00:00] Jack Jostes:
Hey, it's Jack Jostes. And in today's episode of The Landscaper's Guide, I'm going to share some footage from a recent presentation I gave at Belgard University in North Carolina. We're going to talk about what's actually working right now for landscapers in 2025. I'm going to talk about Google reviews. And even since then, Google has this new feature of showing new reviews. It's got a little badge next to it. We're going to talk about AI noise, what's actually changing, what do we need to pay attention to, and how the underdog, YOU, a small but mighty business, can overtake the big national brands. Let's get after it.
[00:41] Jack Jostes:
All right, everyone, how was that fried chicken? Good. I enjoyed that very much. And so what I wanted to share with you guys, to continue to generate leads, before we get into our second part here about How to Brand Your Sales Process to Get The Owner Out of Sales is that Google search reliably reflects demand in the marketplace. So we showed you the last time the searches were as low as they were was 2009. We showed you the high point in 2021 and 2020.
01:22 – What’s New in SEO This Year?
[01:22] Jack Jostes:
And one question is, what is new in search? There was an algorithm leak last year. I don't know if you guys heard about this, but for years Google has been pretty secretive about how does SEO actually work? And it's been a lot of trial and error from the landscape or, I'm sorry, from the SEO industry.
[01:42] Jack Jostes:
So what did we learn about local SEO? Google has this amazingly vast algorithm, but we don't really need all of its information. What we really need to know is what matters to you, the owner of a local business, of a landscape company, of an outdoor construction company? One of the things we learned was that big brands have an advantage in the algorithm. And remind me your name?
[02:11] Austin:
Austin.
[02:12] Jack Jostes:
Austin. So during break I got to talk to Austin, who happens to work at a big brand. He works at Yellowstone, who is a, I don't know, $100 million company. It's a huge company. They have offices all over the country. So that would be an example of a big brand. So they actually have an advantage. Big brands have an advantage in the algorithm. So how can small businesses compete with the big brands?
02:40 – Big Brands, Weak Reviews: Opportunity for the Underdog
[02:40] Jack Jostes:
Before I came here, I did a search for Brightview. You guys know Brightview Landscaping? Publicly traded company, offices all over the country. And based on my location in Colorado, their Broomfield office showed up. And based on the first part of the presentation today, what do you notice about their listing? Who said that? What did you say? Sir?
[03:07] Audience Member 1
Three stars.
[03:09] Jack Jostes:
Three stars from 16 reviews. So it's not like they have like a couple, they have many. So big brands may have an advantage in the algorithm and Austin was humble enough to share. What would you share? What you found. You actually googled your own office. What did you find?
[03:34] Austin:
I mean, our rating wise was a lot lower than you'd expect considering the amount of business that we do nationwide. I only saw 36 reviews, which in my eyes is pretty shocking considering the number of clients that we work with. And you think having as much outreach as we do that we would put more time into these little check boxes and make sure that we get all these reviews in and it's clearly not being done, so it's important.
[03:59] Jack Jostes:
Cool. Well, Austin's over here taking notes. I love seeing that he googled himself. How many of you googled yourself during lunch? Who else found under four stars? Anybody did you find under four? Sorry, average.
[04:21] Michelle Lane
Average, but with. I'm in the same line with him. We only have three reviews.
[04:28] Jack Jostes:
Oh my gosh, guys. This 75 year old company has. Can you believe it or not, guys? They've only had three customers in 75 years. Right? So this is my favorite question. This happens all the time, guys. I work with family owned businesses. You're not alone, Michelle. I don't want you to feel shame. You're not alone. I work. And this is why a lot of what I'm talking about is really basic, but it's really important and most people don't do it. So maybe you can't have the big brand advantage, but could you better reviewed than your competitor? Because let's get, let's get. Let's get for real. I mean, if you don't deliver better service than your Chuck in a Truck competitor, why shouldn't they pick Chuck, right?
05:18 – Getting Google Reviews (Even If It Feels Awkward)
[05:18] Jack Jostes:
Like if I'm a homeowner, I should spend as little as possible on this to get the best service possible. Do you agree? You don't you think I should pay more to get the best service? I do. I do too. Let me say this again. Why would somebody pay more if the quality and the service was the same at somewhere else that charged less? Right? So if the actual quality and service was the same, they should pay less, is my point. If you want to charge more, you need to deliver better service, better quality, better customer experience. And when you do, you've got to ask for a review. And, and it feels uncomfortable because it's like, I don't know, it's kind of.
[06:06] Jack Jostes:
And you can tell people, hey, this feels a little uncomfortable, but it would really help me if we had some more reviews on our Google listing. Would you do me a favor and help me with this? Most people would be like, oh, Michelle, I've worked with you for generations. I would. I hadn't thought of this until you asked. And I bet you could get, honestly, I bet you could get 10 today. I bet you could send some texts or emails. Michelle or Myra. You've got people, so go ahead, sir.
[06:37] Audience Member 2
What we did at Christmas was give a jar of peanuts out with the ribbon, and a card, and all that.
[06:44] Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
[06:45] Audience Member 2
And it said if you give us a Google review, you're in for a dinner at one of our big steakhouses called Angus Farm.
[06:54] Jack Jostes:
Nice.
[06:55] Audience Member 2
So up to a $100 gift card. Out of 30, we got 3 reviews.
[06:57] Jack Jostes:
Okay. 10% is actually what you should expect. And this is why. All right, so let's do some rough math here. If I wanted to get 10 Google reviews, how many people would I need to ask? Thank you. Yes, I'd need to ask 100. So 10% is actually a good response rate. So that way when you guys leave here and you start asking and most people don't do it, there are a number of reasons why not everyone has a Gmail email address. And in order to write a Google review, you need to have a Google account. You need to have a Gmail. And this is changing depending on the demographics of your customer. But I'm going to guess that most of the people who are buying these $100,000+ places are 50, 60+. Right?
[08:01] Jack Jostes:
And the chance of them goes down to have a Gmail account. So search your database, who has a Gmail and give them an extra little nudge. Call them. That's when you might get 20%, 30%. So anyways, it takes time.
08:10 – The Tree of Good Fortune Is Still Right
[08:10] Jack Jostes:
Here are a couple takeaways from Google's algorithm leak. Bum, bum, bum! Well, a lot of what we already know about SEO and that I wrote about in my book The Tree of Good Fortune, was confirmed in this book. So for years, most of the SEO industry has tested things, we've done things, and we've shared reports about what works. And this algorithm link leak confirmed a lot of that. The foundational elements of local SEO haven't really changed service area pages. So talking about Kittyville. Kitty Hawk. Kitty Hawk. Okay, Kitty Hawk. And Morville.
[09:00] Jack Jostes:
Morrisville. Okay, I'm getting my Villes and Hawks straight today. Bear with me. All right, but so you all have your Hell Yes Customer Worksheets filled out with these different places, reviews, online mentions and links. This is essentially The Tree of Good Fortune. The links. The pages. We haven't talked too much about links to your website, but how many of you have a referral partner? Maybe it's not an official partner. How many people do you have? Any businesses that you refer to that you trust and they refer to you? You could do this today. Build a partners page on your website and list those people. Hey, thanks so much, Mrs. Smith. We don't do lawn care, but we have a partners page on our website with some of our friends who do.
[09:49] Jack Jostes:
And so on that partners page, you link to Bob's lawn care and then what do you do? You email that page to Bob and you give Him a phone call, you say, hey, Bob, I learned that if we have links pointing to each other's websites, we both show up higher on Google. So I went ahead and added a link to your website on my partner's page. Would you add a link to me on your website? Oh, yeah, sure. I'd do that. So that's a link. A lot of people are like, what is a link? It's simply someone, you know who has a website that mentions your website. And the best way to get this ball rolling is to give other people links first and say, hey, here's how I just learned how this works.
[10:34] Jack Jostes:
I bet Michelle, in 75 years of business, has dozens of businesses that you can refer to.
[10:40] Michelle Lane:
Absolutely. We do have a partners area on our website that links back with their logo directly to their website.
[10:48] Jack Jostes:
Love it
[10:49] Michelle Lane:
And it says that they offer different services, but it's along the same line.
[10:52] Jack Jostes:
So I love it. Michelle is a superstar. She's got a website with a partners page with logos. And so then the other thing that this does is when you have a no. When you have a hell no, you don't need to tell the customer, hell, no. You're just polite, hey, thanks so much. We'd love to help you with your lawn care, but it's actually not a service we offer. Would it be okay if I emailed you a link to our partners page, where I have some relationships that I've already vetted? Oh, sure. Great. Now what I'm doing is I'm getting that customer's email address and I'm sending them something helpful. And that way, I'm establishing a relationship. I'm turning someone away, but I'm giving them something helpful.
[11:35] Jack Jostes:
And now I'm in their email, and they might think of me when they need what I actually do. So, guys, stay the course. We could get really geeky with this SEO thing. The long and short of it is stay the course.
11:49 – Is ChatGPT Replacing Google Search?
[11:49] Jack Jostes:
Now, here's. Here's a fun question. Are AI chatbots replacing Google search? Is AI replacing Google search? Mr. Outdoor living is nodding over here. Do you think they are or do you just enjoy the question? What do you think?
[12:05] Audience Member 3:
Well, at least in my generation, like, I mean, that's all I use if I'm looking for anything. Hey, what's the best way to do this and that. I would just test my website guy. Like, hey, how do I improve that AI search? Like, cool is fine, but how do I change chat, GPT or open AI and that stuff?
[12:25] Jack Jostes:
Yeah, well, you guys, I. Have you ever. How many of you raise your hand, are using Chat GPT? Okay, some of you. How many of you have asked CHAT GPT, how do I get my landscape company to show up in Chat GPT? You haven't. Ask it. Ask it. Because I was like, you know, I'm reading all these blogs and we're testing things, and I'm like, I'm just gonna ask ChatGPT how to do this. And you wouldn't believe what it told me because I asked it. I'm like, help me find a landscape design company in XYZ area. And then I said, how did you find that result? And. And it said, well, we searched on the web using sites like Google. Huh. Okay, so you searched in a search engine?
[13:15] Jack Jostes:
So AI is pulling from search engines, and search engines are pulling from your website, and they're reading reviews. I said, tell me more. How do you find the best? And it says, we're looking at reviews. So a lot of this is related. So I did some research on this recently, and this may be out of date soon. Here's an asterisk around everything about to say, it could change tomorrow. And you could email me and be like, hey, dude, did you know that what you shared yesterday has changed? As far as I know, this is the most current information I could find because ChatGPT is the most used AI tool right now. Google's Gemini, I don't really like it. I don't know if you guys have tried it, but it doesn't have anywhere near the adoption rate as far as the number of users.
[14:10] Jack Jostes:
So I did some research on who is actually using ChatGPT and Mr. Outdoor Living over here. Winston, can I ask, what generation are you? How old are you?
[14:25] Winston:
I'm 25.
[14:26] Jack Jostes:
You're 25. Okay. I thought so. So it's relevant because he's like, oh, my God, I'm doing everything on here. And right on. This is the fastest growing age bracket of people using it. So a key thing here. I'm using it. I don't know how many of your customers are 50+ for the most part. Would you say, like, majority? Usually when I look at this with my clients, most of their customers are over 50. So before we get too freaked out about ChatGPT, the real question is your Hell Yes Customer using it? How many of your customers are 25? Probably like, none of them, but at this time. But when they're at that phase of life where they're buying a home and they're renovating their yard, I don't know what they'll be doing at that time.
[15:30] Jack Jostes:
So I think it's important like who is actually using what is what marketing is all about? Who is your Hell Yes Customer and how do they communicate is everything. So are they using ChatGPT or any chat bot or any AI tool to find landscape companies? Now that is the question. What does the data say about AI versus Google searches? What are they actually looking up? It turns out 29% of ChatGPT queries are for programming. They're software engineers and developers. They're not looking for a landscaper. Education, content creation, sales and marketing, personal stuff, politics, and nonprofit. Then there's a little sliver. It doesn't even have enough color for other. So how much of that other is people looking for your business? Probably nothing meaningful at this time.
[16:35] Jack Jostes:
But I did share the story earlier about how I found a remodeler through ChatGPT and it is changing. So no, Chat GPT is not stealing Google's lunch is the conclusion to that question that many people ask me about what am I doing about it? Oh my God, what do we do? ChatGPT only has 2% of Google's monthly traffic, right? So what I look at is how are the trends for landscaping on Google? They are very predictable. Here's spring, here's spring, it's Christmas, it's spring, it's winter, it's up. It's this up and down thing. This was the lowest point since 2009. But look, it's actually, it's kind of like back to where it was before COVID in some ways, but then it was a little bit lower.
[17:28] Jack Jostes:
One area that I looked at in particular though that seems to be less economy impacted is lawn care. If you have a lawn, you're probably going to take care of it. And it's not a high dollar item like outdoor living or construction. And there's been kind of like no change into it, right? So the searches on Google are pretty steady. So at this time, asterisk Google search is still the top way small businesses are found online. Is your Hell Yes Customer using ChatGPT to find landscape companies? I can't find any data to support this and I'm hungry to find it. So like if you find it and you find some article like I'm like really hungry to find it. But here's the thing. The whole SEO is dead. How many of you have seen headlines around this? Are you guys seeing this?
[18:25] Jack Jostes:
I've been seeing this my entire career. Here's one from Lawn and Landscape. SEO is dead. I did a search on Google for news. And look, people have been saying this since 2013. The death of SEO. The death of SEO. SEO has been dying for like 20 years, but it's still kicking. It's still like, oh, it's still alive and producing a lot of revenue for a lot of businesses.
18:59 – How Landscapers Should Actually Use AI
[18:59] Jack Jostes:
So how does AI impact marketing for landscape companies? I think that's a more interesting question. And I love AI. We're using AI all the time to assist humans in marketing, content creation. There are even AI landscape design tools, right, for your customers. You might even have one on your website in a year or two where people could design things.
[19:23] Jack Jostes:
I was talking with one of my clients who has a plant nursery and they have this AI design tool that helps you actually pick plants for your yard. And then it's like an e-commerce thing and then you order them and then you pick them up at the plant nursery. Like right now, in 2025 this spring, they're rolling that out. So that's pretty cool. But be careful. You want to beware the temptation to barf ChatGPT for SEO onto your website. Well, Jack, I saw The Tree of Good Fortune presentation. All I need is a limb for each city and a branch for each service. So I'm going to have ChatGPT write everything during my lunch break, right? It can be done very poorly.
[20:06] Jack Jostes:
This is an example of an “apology” my wife received on Facebook messenger from some, I don't know, something normal happened at the park with kids. Somebody sent us an apology because their kid did something. But they included the ChatGPT thing and it was the weirdest message. It was like so clearly not an apology. And it included ChatGPT. So that's an example of humans using ChatGPT very poorly, right? So don't do that in your business. And Google has all of these guidelines. It's called EAT and they anyways, you got to be careful with low-quality content. I made this graphic in ChatGPT because our COO said it best. Well, if you put garbage in, you get garbage out. And so I said, hey, ChatGPT, make me a graphic of garbage in, garbage out. It's good enough for this presentation for now.
[21:16] Jack Jostes:
So how do we use it? One, I always start with client strategy. You all are the experts in construction, in pavers, in retaining walls, in patios, in drainage and irrigation and plants and putting it all together. So when you start with you and your human expertise and then we draft content with AI and then we refine it with a human and another human now we're in business, but it does not start with AI. So when you start with your voice, literally. I had a client at our video studio in Colorado recently, and I recorded her on chat GPT on my phone and had it type what she was saying and edited her script in minutes. She's like, that was so good. I'm like, that's because it's literally starting with your voice. She's like, it sounds like me. I'm like, it started with you.
[22:10] Jack Jostes:
So that's how we use it in our marketing content and a couple takeaways before we get into branding. Your sales process is at this time. Google search is still the top way small businesses are found online. For the whole thing to work, you need to stand out as different. You need to have a quality website with the right photos in the right places and the right keywords, the right tree of good fortune content and online reviews to back it up.
22:39 – Outro: What To Do With This Information
[22:39] Jack Jostes:
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Landscapers Guide. If you're wondering if your website reviews your SEO, like, are you showing up in the way people are looking on AI search now? Are you actually bringing in the right leads? Let's take a look together. So head on over to landscapersguide.com and book a free 15-minute Marketing Meeting. We'll look at your online presence and give you a few things that you can fix this week to get better results right away. If you're enjoying this podcast, make sure you're following The Landscaper's Guide so you don't miss next week's episode. I'm Jack Jostes and I'll be back next Friday with more tips to help you grow your Snow and Landscape Business.
Show Notes:
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