Have you ever thought about running a four-day work week at your landscaping company, but you weren't sure if it would work or how it would impact overtime or recruiting or retention?
Well, today I'm excited to interview one of my clients, Kelly Slater, the vice president of Pleasant Landscapes down in South Carolina, who shares some of her experience over the last three years of running a four-day work week. I was surprised to know, do you have the same four-day work week for your office staff as your production crew? How does it impact overtime? All of these things Kelly and I talk about, so let's get started with the interview.
Hey, everyone, Jack Jostes here. And welcome to The Landscapers Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing Podcast. This show is all about giving you ideas to run a better landscaping company. Where you work with clients that you actually enjoy, make a profit and have a great crew working with you. And recruiting, it seems to be getting harder and harder, and I'm excited to talk about a four-day work week in today's episode.
Jack Jostes:
All right, everyone. Today, I'm excited to bring back Kelly Slater who's the vice president at Pleasant Landscapes down in South Carolina. And Kelly, you've probably heard Kelly on the show before. She also runs a nonprofit called The Pate House down in South Carolina. You're definitely busy doing a lot of interesting things in business, and today I'm really excited to have you back on the show, Kelly, to talk about what it's like running a four-day work week at your landscaping company. And, I was surprised, you came to our client advisory panel when we did our retreat, and I was surprised to learn that the four-day work week actually, can help with reducing overtime. So that's something that we'll talk about later. Before we get into that, tell us just real quick, who are you? What does Pleasant Landscapes do? And, what are you up to?
Kelly Slater:
Sure. So I'm Kelly Slater, Vice President of Pleasant Landscapes. We are a residential design, build, install and maintenance company for residential clients here in Charleston, South Carolina. We've been in business for over 30 years now and I just love what we do.
Whatever You Allow, You Encourage
Jack Jostes:
Good. And Kelly, before we started recording, I noticed the sign behind you that says whatever you allow, you encourage. So what is that? What does that mean?
Kelly Slater:
That's something that I picked up years ago and it seems like it works in pretty much any situation or example, whether it be or negative. So if you allow negative behavior, you're encouraging it. Same thing with positive behavior. So it's kind of a motto that we've gotten our supervisors to take on with leading their crews. And if they're going to allow extra breaks and long breaks, they may as well encourage it.
Jack Jostes:
Interesting. Yeah, I think there, I'm thinking of my five and six year old kids right now and I think it definitely applies to them.
Kelly Slater:
Absolutely.
Jack Jostes:
So well, that's interesting. So what are some things out of having that kind of motto that, are there things that, have you ever had things that you allowed and you were surprised that then they ended up working and you ended up encouraging them, that you originally thought wouldn't work?
Kelly Slater:
Well, the positive spin of that statement is allowing the crew leaders and the teams to have a little bit of input on how processes go in the field. What changes they want to make, their recommendations, making sure that they have a voice and they always feel like they're heard, has been super beneficial. A lot of our crews have taken that independence and really ran with it and excel tremendously over the years.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. That's great. I've found, in running my own company, that getting feedback and regularly listening to the team, especially the people who are executing the processes, we grow a lot and we learn a lot. And so that's definitely, there's a positive spin to that for sure. So one of the things that you're doing, that's interesting, and just to give people listening some context, Pleasant Landscapes does only residential work, right?
Kelly Slater:
Correct, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
So you do design, build, you do construction, you also have a significant maintenance division. And some of your clients include second homeowners, right? Who are, they have like a beach front property. But you pretty much have to do landscaping year round down there, right?
Kelly Slater:
Correct, yes. Year round.
How 4-Day Workweeks Function At Pleasant Landscapes
Jack Jostes:
How long have you been doing the four-day work week and what led you to give it a shot?
Kelly Slater:
So we've been doing a four, 10 hour shift for about three years now, going on four years. Just like any other landscape company we were doing five days a week, eight hours a day, and eight hours turned to nine, nine turned into 10. In the summertime, during our busy season, we've got plenty of daylight hours. And in trying to attract new hires, bringing on more local staff, it's more attractive to be able to offer a three-day weekend, but still a 40 hour schedule, because they are still wanting to be employed full-time. So that's kind of when we switched over to doing a four, 10 hour shift, Monday through Thursday. It gives us the ability for the three-day weekends. It also gives us that buffer day for rainy days, or extra workload and things like that.
Jack Jostes:
And so what has the response been from maybe people who were at the company prior to the four-day work week, and also what has the response been when you're recruiting?
Kelly Slater:
So the team loved it. Like I had mentioned, that they had worked eight hours, which turned into nine and 10 anyway, and they were doing that five days a week versus having those long weekends. So the crews that were here, and the guys that were here, really enjoyed that switch to a four-day work week. And new hires coming aboard seemed to really enjoy it as well. It's not a very common thing that's offered in our area unless you get into manufacturing and other lines of work. So it's been extremely positive overall.
Jack Jostes:
And so does your company take the same day off or does it vary per crew, or how do the actual, what's like a typical work week look like at Pleasant Landscapes?
Kelly Slater:
So our crews start 7:30, Monday through Thursday, and they work their 11 hour shift. Friday is a day that we use, like I mentioned, for a buffer day in case weather's bad. We're also able to take on additional work and increase our overall revenue without really worrying about buying new trucks and hiring new people, and things like that, because we've got Friday. For round figures, we could do 25% more business with that extra day in the week.
Jack Jostes:
And so how does that work with overtime? Are your employees still paid hourly, and do they do time-tracking? And then when they reach 40 they stop or how do you manage the actual time, the time tracking? Sounds like you're doing four tens, or maybe even four eleven's. How does that work with pay and overtime management?
Kelly Slater:
So we've got software that our crews use in the field, and then they also have a time clock at our shop that they clock in and out. We have a set time each day that they have to start, and we have a set time each day that they have to return. That way everybody's returning together, unloading their debris. They love to kind of hang out for 20 or 30 minutes after their shift is over for the day, and just kind of hang out and talk about their day. So they generally hit between 40 and 44 hours during those four days, Monday through Thursday. And then Friday is the overtime day if needed.
Do The 4-Day Workweeks Impact Recruiting And Employee Retention?
Jack Jostes:
Awesome. And what are some of the results or what's the impact been? Have you noticed that you've retained people, or is it worth it?
Kelly Slater:
Oh, it's absolutely worth it. So from an employee perspective, retention has gotten a lot better. Overall, the guys seem to be well rested when they show up on Monday. Having that long weekend, it's just overall been a really positive thing.
Jack Jostes:
What are, have there been any downsides or challenges?
Kelly Slater:
We do have some guys that really enjoy that extra overtime on Fridays. And ask every single week, is their overtime, is their overtime? But that's actually pushed our sales team to sell more and pick up more clients, and things like that. So we can take growth in increments. The guys like the extra money,
Jack Jostes:
I'm sure they do. And you know, it has an extra expense for you. So how do you manage that when you're planning on having June as like a crunch month? Do you increase your prices to accommodate for that increase in labor costs for that time?
Kelly Slater:
It ends up being a fractional increase when it's a controlled situation. So when we know that we're going to have a month, we pick the work that we're going to do. The more profitable items and things like that, and we kind of pick what we're going to push in those overtime. Overall, it really is a small fraction. And that big push, kind of that residual, lasts all year. It's the recurring revenue with the maintenance clients and the returning business that you get, the advertising from the work that you're doing. So to be able to do it in short periods like that, that are controlled, it doesn't make too much of a difference in your bottom line.
The Transition To A 4-Day Workweek May Not Be As Drastic As You'd Think
Jack Jostes:
So, Kelly, one of the things that you said to me that was kind of surprising when we've talked, is that a lot of business owners perceive this to be a major change. It's a big deal, but it's not. Why isn't it? Like how could this not, it seems like a really big deal, how could it not be a big change?
Kelly Slater:
So you're only really extending the work day by two hours. You're going from an eight hour shift to a 10 hour shift. And if you talk to your people and you really look at it, they're probably working more than eight hours anyway. You're just making this a scheduled thing so that you can control your overtime. Because for crews to go from eight to eight and a half or nine hours, isn't a big deal. You have them on a 10 hour shift, they're not going to want to push 11 or 12 hours. You're going to get your 10.
Kelly Slater:
You're going to get four days a week and you're going to get your 40 hours. So you can control your overtime, and when it's necessary and when it's needed. And you don't have to, you realize how many Saturdays are saved. Because you get a random rain day on a Wednesday now you need to work Saturday because you've got five days of work scheduled. Your crew is out there on Saturdays. You might be out in the field on Saturdays. You're saving your weekends. So you're giving that buffer. You're extending your work day by two hours, which isn't that big of a deal. And it really is a better change overall when you see the morale in the crews, and how it doesn't have really any negative impact at all.
Jack Jostes:
What do you think some of the fears that landscapers might have about doing a four-day work week? You know, I've talked to some of them and they say like, you joked, oh, well, that's for manufacturing or these cool tech companies. Or, Ramblin Jackson, or stuff. You all can do it, but landscapers can't do it. Why do you think they might think that?
Kelly Slater:
So we do still have our administrative staff in our office open normal business hours, Monday through Friday. But our production and our scheduling and our supervisors staff is where we keep our four tens limited. There was a little bit of hesitation as to how it was going to be received. How the guys would feel about working the extra two hours a day. Having the conversation with them really helped those fears a lot. Just asking them, hey, would you rather work an extra two hours and have Fridays off, or Mondays off, or whatever days at the time we were looking at.
Kelly Slater:
But having seniors supervise our staff, and any landscaper out there knows, when it's your busy season you just want to pull your hair out. You're running all over. You're wearing multiple hats. You're doing a million different things and so are your key people. So being able to give them a day of rest, even if they're not off, even if they're in the field still doing QCs and follow-ups, and things like that, it's not as crazy as your production days. So giving them that rest is really a bonus in itself, and worthwhile. And you get to take a breath too, as a business owner.
Jack Jostes:
So what about you as the vice president? Do you get to work four days or are you there five days or seven days, or like what's life like when you're leading and running the company?
Kelly Slater:
Well, there's been times where it's been crazy and there were 10 and 12 and 14 hour days, but I've learned that I am going to be more productive if I limit myself to six or eight hours a day. So I prefer, I'm a morning person, I prefer to go in at six or 6:30 in the morning before anybody gets there. I feel like I get half a days worth of work done just in those hour or two. And I try to leave at a reasonable time. My staff seems to really respect the fact that I can hold it together and not work 14 and 16 hour days every day. But, you know, it kind of sets the precedence with them as well, that you can be more productive and not have to work more in doing it.
4-Day Workweeks Are Attractive To Many Employees
Jack Jostes:
One of the challenges that I'd say even most small businesses are facing right now, certainly landscape companies, the green industry, construction in general, is finding people who want to work. How big of a deal do you think this four-day work week is to a potential employee? Like, if let's pretend that total compensation were the same between your company and then someone else, do you think the four-day work week is enough to sway them to come on board?
Kelly Slater:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Looking back to when I was younger, to have an option to have Fridays or Mondays off and have a three-day weekend and make the same amount of money, I would jump at that in a heartbeat. It's the weekends, especially where we are in Charleston, we're at the beach. People like to hunt and fish and go to the beach and enjoy the area. You get three days to do that now.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. I've noticed that it has well, a lot of things have changed for me. But one of the things is in the last year we have filled positions faster. And I think that having that as part of the year, as part of our offer, has helped with that. So for those of you who are listening, who are thinking through, how can you become a more desirable place to work? Potentially having a four-day work week could be part of the solution.
Jack Jostes:
Well, thank you for coming on the show. Is there anything else that we should know about how to successfully launch a four-day work week at our companies?
Kelly Slater:
I would say definitely get your input from your, get the input of your employees. Even if you decide to do something different, give them a voice. Make sure they feel like they're heard. And just because you start a four, 10 program, if it doesn't seem to be a good fit for you, you can always go back to it.
Jack Jostes:
I mean, if you hire people and they've come on board for the four-day work week and you change it, it might be a deal breaker, right? But you're right, you could, if you had to, you could change it. And I let everyone know last year that it was going to be a trial period. And last year it wasn't really a four-day work week for me, just where we were with the growth of the company and not having enough people. But this year I've been able to enjoy it. I love it. You know, I've been hanging out with my kids on Monday mornings. It's pretty great.
Jack Jostes:
So, all right, well, Kelly, thanks again for coming on the show. And everyone else, I'm curious to hear from you. Are you going to run a four-day work week? Could you see it working for you? Let me know in the comments. And Kelly, thanks again.
Kelly Slater:
Thank you.
Jack Jostes:
So what do you think? Could running a four-day work week work for your landscaping company? If you want to get inspired with other ideas about recruiting, checkout, landscapersguide.com/podcast. We have a whole section of other episodes about recruiting. So if you go to landscapersguide.com/podcast and click on the recruiting tab, you can see other episodes. So with that, thanks so much for spending your time with me today. I hope you learned some valuable nuggets and I look forward to talking with you in the next episode.