00:00 - You Can’t Fricken Fail
Ryan (00:00):
I always say, our job's easy. We just remove vegetation. We kill it. We make sure nothing grows in this tank farm in this parking lot. I think I'm done. I think I can make the business work. My wife said, show me the money. That's all. She said. I worked my butt off all summer long, no matter what. You need a tree trim. Okay, I'll be there 80 bucks here. Uh, you need this to, I didn't care. I was doing whatever I could. My mantra, basically what I was saying to myself every day is, you can't fail. You can't fricking fail.
Jack (00:29):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Landscapers Guide podcast. Today I am here with my client Ryan from Turf Concepts Landscaping in Michigan. And, uh, Ryan, thanks for coming on the Landscaper's Guide.
Ryan (00:40):
I appreciate you having me here.
00:41 - History of Turf Concepts
Jack (00:41):
So, so Ryan, tell us a little bit, what is, uh, Turf Concepts Landscaping and what's the company history?
Ryan (00:47):
Well, we're a design build company. Uh, basically outdoor kitchens, patios, uh, plantings. Um, we can do large scale projects and we can do smaller ones. You know, we work commercial, we work residential. Um, that's the landscaping side of things. And then we do a lot of maintenance, uh, grass cutting, uh, enhancements to mostly commercial properties. Um, and we're starting to work in more industrial sites too. So just cutting grass, removing brush, uh, spraying. We do a lot of
Jack (01:20):
Spraying. And that industrial is a in increasing focus for you as you grow the company?
Ryan (01:24):
Yeah, it's, it's where we found that you look at all the scope of everything that you do. Mm-hmm. And really, we're looking at where do we get a lot of our complaints, where we putting all of our, uh, resources into and found out that that has also has the lowest margin. So, you know, with your residentials, um, you'll get more calls, more not, we don't really get a lot of complaints, but if we do, it's on that side of things and the margins are lower. So industrial, yes, the, the risk is much higher. And it's working in industrial sites, it can be dangerous. But we're put all the safety things in place to make sure that all the guys come home at the end of the day. And that type of work. We don't get complaints. We have good communication with them. We're all working as a team.
Ryan (02:11):
Um, the, the co the clients that we have in industrial are, they have the best teams put together. Mm-hmm . They have to, for what they do, oil and gas, um, utilities. Um, they have to have a great team in place. And that's where we fit in. 'cause we have a good team that works, a great team that works with their guys and their personnel. I always say our job's easy. We just remove vegetation, we kill it, we make sure nothing grows in this tank farm or mm-hmm . In this parking lot. And we just doing, doing more work right away work. We just have to make sure there's no vegetation growing on top of a pipeline or, you know, along a fence line. So that's where we're kind of going with a lot of our,
Jack (02:57):
Yeah. So that's where you're heading. Tell us a little quick history of the company. When did it start? You had a partner and tell us a little bit about that.
Ryan (03:06):
Yeah, so it started, well, I started cutting grass when I was for money when I was 12, I think. Mm-hmm . And I've always enjoyed it. And then I've always done it on the side. I was a full-time science teacher, so I have a, a background in science. Mm-hmm . Um, I'd get home from teaching and then I'd cut grass. It was nice, mindless work. You make something look nice that didn't look nice and you repeat it every week. It was, it was good for what I was doing. And then I got married, start a family and realize that, geez, the business is a lot of work. Teaching's a lot of work. And you know what? Not that a family's a lot of work, but it, it's important. It,
Jack (03:40):
It is a lot of work.
Ryan (03:41):
It's a lot of work, but it's, it is a lot of work. You don't look at it as work.
Jack (03:43):
Yeah. I, I know what you mean. But it, the fact is, it's a, it's a lot when you have, so how many kids did you have?
Ryan (03:48):
I have two. Okay. So that pretty much, I knew it some point, something's gonna give, and it wasn't gonna be my family, and it wasn't gonna be the business that I've worked hard on. It was gonna be teaching. Unfortunately, I really enjoyed teaching. But at the time in Michigan, uh, they basically capped and reduced, uh, funding from the state into education. So I kind of got stuck. Mm-hmm . And I'm like, man, I'm never gonna be able to retire at this, at this level. And I'm like, I still have another 10 years left. So my wife said, I told her, I said, I, I think I'm done. I think I can make the business work. And she's like, show me the money. All she said, she's like, show me the money and you can, you can resign. So I worked, I worked my butt off all summer long, no matter what.
Ryan (04:36):
You need a, a tree trim. Okay, I'll be there 80 bucks here. Uh, you need this to, I didn't care. I was doing whatever I could. The end of summer, I had some money. I said, this money will get us through the entire winter for all our bills. Don't have to worry about anything. She's like, go ahead. So I, I went on my computer. I typed up like literally two sentences of my resignation letter and hit send and turned all my, everything off my phone, my computer, everything. Just 'cause I just, I lit a fuse and I'm like, there we go, we're done. And I didn't look bad, but my mantra, basically what I was saying to myself every day is, you can't fail. You can't fricking fail. I, every day I'd say, you can't, what are you doing today to make sure that doesn't happen?
05:24 - I had no idea what marketing did
Ryan (05:24):
It's not like a family depends on it. Before it was like, eh, if I fail, I could teach. Now everything is dependent on him at the time. I have a business partner who is also a full-time teacher, and he is the one we're like, uh, the odd couple. Mm-hmm . He, I'm more of a slob, I'll be honest. , he was more meticulous about everything. He was the one who he loved, you know, he'd do designs and everything. And I'm outdoor kind of person. I like being out in the field. I like working with the guys. So it was a good fit for us. Uhhuh. And we, when I was on board full time, he still taught and we divided the, our responsibilities and it worked. But it was always under the premise of, all right, he's gonna be out. And he just heart to heart. He couldn't, he, he just, he couldn't do it. He enjoys teaching businesses is a bit stressful. And he just told me, and he was honest with me, and I supported his decision, like, I'm just gonna have to go and just teach full time. So here, I'm like, oh, man, he did all the landscaping design. He did all the, worked with marketing. I had no idea what marketing did.
Jack (06:28):
Right. And he was the one who hired me and Ramblin Jackson. Yep.
Ryan (06:31):
So, here I am, I'm like, all right, I gotta learn about marketing. So, you know, it's been helpful. The team that you, I've been working with is super helpful. Um, books, read your book, read others, and learning all the marketing strategies. So anyways, now the business has growing. Ever since I stopped teaching, the business has grown. And now we're at a point where we still need to get leads. You know, we're not just working for friends and family anymore. We're not just working for prior clients. And, you know, we're going in a little bit different direction than what we started. So, and there's a lot of details that I left out, but that's the gist of everything.
07:12 - Can’t Fail Mentality
Jack (07:12):
Well, I love, I love that moment though, when you decided to go for it and you did, and you never looked back and you said, I can't fail. Where do you think you learned that mentality? Did, did somebody in your life have that, that inspired you to think that way?
Ryan (07:29):
Uh, that's a, that's a freaking great question. I think it's a lot of things. You know, it's just, I worked in a school with a lot of kids that were, I would say their disadvantage would be be nice. And I've seen them overcome a lot of things where they, you know, honestly, they, they were dealt a bad hand. And I'm like, man, these guys, a lot of these kids have overcome a lot of, I mean, you name it, poverty, death in the family. It's just, it just was, you know, tough to watch at times. All I gotta do is make a business successful. You kidding me? Hard work. And you know, like any business owner, you're gonna work hard at it. That's your, that's your, your baby, basically. You started the success of it, or the failure of it's based on you. So, but to say one person or one, you know, my, my dad, my parents would, you know, they'd never let me quit anything. That was huge. Sports. I loved football. I enjoyed it. And I played football at a young age and wasn't super good at it. I ran track. I'm slow as can be. So I'm like, I don't wanna run track. I'm not very fast. And I, I wanted to quit, but my, I like, no, you're not quitting anything. You start something, you finish it.
Jack (08:47):
That's how I'm teaching my boys too, is, you know, we've, I've had them, I've been their coach for basketball and soccer, you mention that. Not because I'm necessarily qualified to be a coach, but I would show up, right? There were no other dads who were like, yeah, I'll show up and coach the team. So I'm like, all right, I will, I will do that. And I showed up every time on time and I, I helped them realize, look, you could quit at the end of the, you could not join next season, but we're gonna, we're gonna finish the season because your team's counting on you. You know, we, we need to finish the season. We need to finish the commitment. Or if they have a gig with a band or whatever, like, well, you gotta do the gig and then, then we can talk about if you don't want to do the next one. But I think, yeah, those things. But that's amazing that you were inspired so much by your students and the adversity that they had faced.
Ryan (09:39):
Yeah, I mean, it's just one, it just came to my head right now. I, I mean, I should say it just came to my head, but it's just, you know, everything in perspective. Mm-hmm . Um, you just not, we're running a, not to minimize what we're doing, but we're running a business. And with the right pieces in place, you can make it successful.
Jack (10:01):
I, I'm with you on that. Sometimes I'm like, Hey, it's kind of simple what we do here. We need to generate some leads. We need to talk to people. Some of them need to hire us. Uh, we need to build some websites. , we need to do all these other things. I don't know. In some ways it is simple. It is harder though. Yeah. Managing a team and leading people and getting the work done well, charging enough,
Ryan (10:22):
Yeah. Knowing your
Jack (10:23):
Numbers, not having enough, you know, or having the right amount of people, the right amount of expenses to make a profit in order for it to be worthwhile. It it is more complicated, but it's also kind, it is kind of that simple. So I wanted, I wanted to chat with you. One of the shifts that happened for you when your business partner left, was around marketing. And you were like, you know what? I don't really like marketing. I trust my business partner. He does the marketing, he handles people. He hired me. Tell me about some of your journey since then and some of the books that you've read and how they've expanded your thinking.
10:57 - Knowing your numbers and learning marketing
Ryan (10:57):
Oh, so I'm not, it's kind of embarrassing. I'm not a real big book reader. Um, my attention span is very, very short. So, you know, I, I found, I started reading books as I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I don't know what I'm, I don't know what I'm doing with any of this. I don't understand this. I understand marketing, I understand advertising. I don't, you know, I don't know what a close rate is. Oh, okay. This is how many calls you have. This is how many, you know, sales. And then, I mean, it's all simple, right? But I didn't know any of this stuff. And I started reading books. And actually a friend of mine who, he's a VP at a, a pretty big construction company. And, and, uh, they have systems in place. So he's like, man, you gotta read this book called Extreme Ownership. And I don't know if you've read it or not. Yeah. But I read that. So there's like an order of books. I would, I recommend it, but I mean, one of 'em was Die With Zero.
Jack (11:50):
I haven't haven't done that one yet.
Ryan (11:52):
Check. It's good. But it's, it makes you prioritize things and how to, you know, as you make money, how to make sure that you are not, it, it doesn't mean you're going to leave nothing to any, you know, but it's how to prioritize things and look at money in a different way. 'cause if we're working, we're all making money at some for, that's one of the reasons why, you know, we set up businesses and run 'em and mm-hmm . I mean, there's lots of other reasons. Much more noble than money. But, um, so the, the Die With Zero was good. Um, was the other one on, um, buy Back your time, because you gotta, if you're wasting time, if anyone asks me what the most important thing to me other than friends and family, I'll answer immediately. Time. It doesn't time. It's simple as that. I don't know how much I have. It's, it's a commodity that you don't know how much you have. So buy back your time was super helpful. Um, and then I read Extreme Ownership. I've read Good To Great. Um, I've read They ask you Answer, I've read your book. Um, I just finished the E-Myth. Um, but I highly rec, I'm not, like I said, I'm not a book reading kind of person. You've
Jack (13:00):
Read a lot more books than many people listening have just in that short list, truly. Right?
Ryan (13:06):
Yeah. And it's, it is important to read these things. And I'm, like I said, I'm not a book reader, but I just take a little bit of time each week. Uhhuh, it's usually at the, usually on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday at night, and I wind, I'm winding down. 'cause those days are always crazy for me. And I read a couple an hour and it just, and that's all, it's, it's been super helpful. And then learning how marketing works. I didn't know what Inbounding was. I didn't know what Outbounding was. I didn't know what SEO is. So I'm, when I'm meeting with your team, I'm like, I apologize up front. Like guys, I'm a child right now that knows any nothing. You're gonna have to tell me what the most basic thing is. Yeah. And they did. They went through it. And now I understand them. Most of it. Still learning.
Jack (13:51):
What are some of the breakthroughs or things that, why, why is it important? You're saying it's important, you gotta learn marketing. What are some of the things that it's helped you learn how to do?
Ryan (14:00):
Well, first of all, that has nothing to do with my business, is everything's there for a reason. There's, you know, a billboard. Okay, that's, and everything has a price for it. You know, based on how many eyes they're gonna see, um, based on how many houses you're going to get to based on, you name it, everything is, is on marketing. And if you think about it, you go to Walmart and they have their own, what's the great products or great something. It's their own brand. And it's like 30% or 20% cheaper than Dole or Bird's Eye or whatever. I've heard that they, I make the same product that's in that can, as in the same brand, brand name can. That just tells you how much money is spent on marketing. That's the only difference, right? So, incredible amount of money goes into marketing. That's what I mean.
Ryan (14:50):
I didn't realize how much that was. That was one thing that's, that was interesting to me. Um, another thing is how, how little changes that you can make can have a big influence on, uh, not only just your leads, but sales, you know, and how you approach things. Consistency. Everyone likes consistency. Well, for the most part, unless you're just into chaos, right? But having the same process from, for us in maintenance, a roll, a morning rollout. You know, guys come in, we punch in, we make sure the trucks are fueled. And I need that. I need a better system for that. Um, I know it's not to do with marketing, but having a clean appearance on your truck or all the trucks washes it. We all have uniforms. Um, just that consistency. So people, people like consistency. Kids, they'll watch the same movie over and over again.
Ryan (15:51):
'cause they know the ending of it. Hmm. If they take a movie that, like, I'm talking little like, Nemo, remember my nephew just watched Nemo. He knew the ending of it. They wanna take the risk to watch something else. She said, it's change, it's different. This was consistent. Some people will go to the same restaurant, not because it's good, they might have mediocre food, but they keep returning to it because they know it's gonna be mediocre. If you go to a place, if you've ever been to a place that has awesome food and then really bad food, and all of a sudden it's really good, and then it's, you usually don't come back for a third time. And it's the awesome food didn't matter 'cause it wasn't consistent throughout the thing. So that's, that's like one thing I'm working on right now. I want to have more consistency in what we do from everything.
16:35 - Becoming the Face of the Company
Jack (16:35):
I like that. From your messaging, from your branding. Um, so right now we did, we just did a video shoot, I think this was the first video shoot you've ever done, right? Yeah. So tell me about becoming the face of the company. This was something that we had talked about that I think people should hear from you, of what does it mean to be the face of the company and why are you doing video?
Ryan (16:55):
To start off this is, I'm very uncomfortable doing anything on video. I'm a quiet person. I like to sit in the back. I don't like to, you know, I'm not a look at me person, which is fine if you are, it's no big deal. It's just the way we all we're all different in the last year. I've been getting more comfortable being uncomfortable, if that makes any sense. Now it's like, hey, this is something new. I'm not comfortable doing it. Not that I, I don't mean not comfortable. I I just feel uneasy and it's not natural to me. Um, but do it because you're not gonna show growth and you're not gonna keep, keep moving forward in the direction you want. Now being the face of the company. Back to the question. It was a discussion that you and I had a few weeks or maybe a month or so ago. Um, and it hit and you said something that, it hit me pretty hard where you're your job description. I'm the face of the company.
Jack (17:43):
It's, yeah, it's in my job description is one of them is to be the face of the company. And for me that means doing social media, public speaking and video.
Ryan (17:52):
So that hit me like, man, he's right. Jack is right about this. I don't, I'm not comfortable with it, but it's the right thing to do and this is what you have to do, like it or not. Right? So that's where this whole, you know, video came in, came in place, and, um, and I feel good about the shoot and everything, but I got to, I mean, I have a question, you know, for you on your job descriptions, for your, for what you do for Ramblin Jackson, Uhhuh, , are there any in your job descriptions that, that you're uncomfortable with, that you don't, not saying that you don't like to do, but you're like, man, I gotta work on this.
Jack (18:30):
Yeah, sure. Well, so like, one of 'em is, is, um, and people are often surprised to hear this. I don't necessarily want to be on social media.
Jack (18:40):
Like I have, I haven't updated my personal Facebook in years, occasionally post a photo of me and my wife kind of thing. But like, I'm not personally on it because I, I want to be, I have learned to find joy in doing it. And it's more from hearing when I see my clients at a trade show, Hey, I really enjoyed that video and made it made, it made me think about this. And that really helped me. So that's more of a motivator to me than being on social media for the sake of it. So, so the being the face of the company, I needed to put it in my job description because I, I was at a similar point in my business where I knew I needed to grow, and part of it meant I needed to hire more people and I needed to be able to pay them way more than I was.
Jack (19:28):
And I needed to make me way more money. So it wasn't just the money, but it was like, I needed, all of these things are related. Like I needed better clients and I wanted to be able to hire and retain my employees. And that meant that someone needed to be the face of the company. And so that was how I found the motivation to do it. One of the other key accountabilities is understanding the company financials. It doesn't mean that I'm personally entering the data into QuickBooks or our cash flow spreadsheet, but I need to be able to understand it and make decisions. And I have employees, I've lost track in how many states I currently have employees, but over five states. And employment law is a state issue. So I need to understand how to manage my HR company to comprehend state law, state employment law enough to participate in the hiring, retaining, and firing of employees in different states. And have you ever had an employee in California? No. It's, it's like a different country. It's like, it might as well be China.
Ryan (20:42):
My brother did work for a company and it was based working in Detroit, but based out of California and the, the rules that were completely
Jack (20:49):
Different. So, so that is work that is excruciating. You know, I think I'm gonna write a chapter of my book, but then I get an email from my accountant that this state law changed in California. And because that happened, um, it changes the employment law for all of the other five states. And then, uh, just as I'm starting to comprehend that after spending a couple hours sometimes, well, this, this judge struck down this change. And so now that's not happening in California. And so now my employee in Nebraska doesn't need to change after all. So, so that, that, that, that is not the, that is not, um, enjoyable necessarily. But then once I figure it out, I do kind of enjoy it. So there's like this, I found ways to enjoy the things. Like I, I would rather not have to deal with state employment law, but because I own a digital agency with a remote team, I need to, so there's, there's certain things like that, whereas like setting the vision of the company is enjoyable.
21:59 - Taking Ownership of Culture and Core Values
Jack (21:59):
And also one of my accountabilities is culture. And so that comes with difficult people decisions and conversations because setting the vision of the company means, Hey guys, here's where we're taking the company. 'cause somebody I need to do that, that's my job is say, Hey, we're going here. And sometimes people say, well, I want to go over here and I need to help them understand that, you know, well, here's why we're going here, here's the opportunity for you. And then sometimes people are like, well, I'm really personally upset that the company is going in this direction. And I'm like, this has nothing to do with you personally. But some people react to it in a way as if it was like a personal attack on them that we're, you're going in this direction, but I want to do this. And to me it's just like, well, why don't you go do that?
Jack (22:51):
Go do that. Here's where we're going. So there's a lot of, um, conflict inherent to running a business with people, between hiring people, retaining them, and then needing to make decisions about here's where we're going. So that I think is something that many people don't realize in running a business. And sometimes they see, well, this guy's really upset at Jack, Jack must have done something to him. Yep. And from my perspective, I'm just like, guys, I'm, I'm setting the vision of where we're going and this person no longer wants to do it. But it's not that I, I didn't choose to go that way because I don't like this person. Yeah. Does this, does this make any sense? It
Ryan (23:39):
Totally. So it's basically your core values, you set 'em, they're set in stone, right? They're not subjective. They're, these are what our company or your company is built on. And if you're not, and you can have your, you can have the, the team that you work with, your employees come up with your core values too, with some guidance.
Jack (24:01):
We, we've, I did that. Yeah.
Ryan (24:03):
And now they have ownership of it. So when it goes, we have these values, right? And you're not falling into this, this, you're going against what the values that we stand for. That's nothing personal. It's just you're not within the values that we have established.
Jack (24:16):
Right? And, and so sometimes people have a really good working friendship or rapport with that person who's no longer a fit. Oh, yeah. And that creates conflict. You know, an example, one of our core values is grow or die. And so there's a lot of change happening right now with ai Yeah. In how consumers are finding landscape companies. And so I'm not necessarily changing that, but the world is changing. Uh, Google has announced that AI mode is the future of Google search, not me. So Google has said, Hey, here's what's going on. I need to decide. Great. I can either resist it and say, I'm not gonna participate in AI mode, but then why would Ryan hire me anymore if I don't help you continue to get found online? So I'm gonna say, cool, here's how the market's changing. We're gonna go in this direction with ai.
Jack (25:14):
We're gonna use this tool to create some of our content. And for some people you were talking about that drive for consistency. Yeah. Maybe we've been consistently doing things for years in this way and I need to, now the vision is, Hey, here's where we're going. And there's a, there's a change and that feels uncomfortable to some people. And I need, I want to keep people who share, grow or die, who are like, cool, I get it. I see how it's changing and I'm growing and we're going in that direction with you. But what has happened is some people see the whole change to ai, they're very threatened by it. And then I be, I then become the face of the company, if you will, the face of the AI change. And they feel threatened by it. So then I'm threatening them, but I'm like, it's not really about me at all. It's about our customer and the market, and here's where we need to go
Ryan (26:10):
Adjustment.
Jack (26:10):
You know? So I think that's more of a relevant change for me. But like, one change that's happening in the landscape industry is autonomous mowers. Yep. And some people feel really threatened by that. Oh my god. Well, we're gonna have, we won't need as many crews to, to mow the lawns.
26:27 - Adjusting to changes in the industry and demands
Ryan (26:27):
Another one with us locally, um, and is electric. So a lot of, some townships are going to just an electric based, um, fleet, basically no gas blowers, whips and things like that. Well, it's hard to cut a hundred acres of grass on a fleet of mowers that need to be charged. And they have a six hour, you know, runtime and they're getting better with the technology. But change like that, if we're working in, let's say, um, in Ann Arbor, they, I believe they have no, um, and I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure, but it's going the direction of electric. So if you do work in that city, you're gonna have to adjust on how you do things. Not that you have to like it, but if you wanna do work there, that's how, those are the rules they set in place. So, I mean, for us, in our industry, um, the price of those autonomous mowers are pretty high.
Ryan (27:22):
So we don't, you know, and I'm not sure safety reasons and all that kind of stuff, if people are comfortable having those, but mm-hmm . Um, you know, with landscaping, you still need people to, you know, install plants and be able to, I don't know, it's not so much autonomous where you need that human interaction and touch to get the, get the job done. Yeah. You know, but trying to think of other challenges that we've run into that are similar, you know, as a business owner, I think, you know, having the right people in place, you know, what are their strengths, put 'em in the right positions. I mean, that's your job, um, as the, as the face of the business too, right? Right. Mm-hmm . Um, you're right. Let's say, and there's some guys that that may not get along super well and, and you want to try to, you wanna try to manage 'em properly.
Ryan (28:15):
If they go against core values, you gotta get rid of 'em. You know, if, if any of their, any of their behaviors of safety, you know, image or you know, teamwork mm-hmm . They just are not gonna work out for you. But managing those guys, one guy that's real quiet, more like a lone wolf, well I'm gonna have him, you know, cut fields, right. Where he just wants to keep to himself in a way. That's fine. Um, other guys that wanna work 12 hour days, then they are gonna be put on this crew. Or we've got landscape projects that go from seven until seven, you know, and we try to manage it that way. Um, those are the challenges that we have for the most part. But we have a really good team and we have a great team. That's why, you know.
Jack (28:57):
Well, so where are you headed next with the business? So what's, what are some of your goals?
29:02 - Recruiting, Hiring and Retaining Employees
Ryan (29:02):
Well, um, this sounds kind of funny. First of all, I just came up with, this is embarrassing. And also I just came up with job descriptions this last maybe six months ago, because I'd have, yeah, you're a weed whip guy, you're a maintenance guy. Well, what's the pay range? What are the responsibilities? I'm like, man, I don't even have any of that done and I don't have it posted.
Jack (29:23):
Y you, you know, it's a, I I've gone through that phase with business too. It's, and you're not alone. You, you'd be amazed how many million multimillion dollar companies don't have some of that stuff. That seems
Ryan (29:36):
I know. And I,
Jack (29:37):
Yeah. And then it can cause a world of hurt when you don't have it.
Ryan (29:42):
So we put all that in place. Yeah, alright, well here's a lead crew, here's our industrial crew, here's our landscape crew, here's the form, and here's project manager. Yeah, I have to have one. Obviously all that stuff put together. And then just putting all the systems in place where we have consistency. Then the real big goal is, and and I don't define growth necessarily as, alright, we're a $1 million company. We're gonna go to two, to three to four, and then what your margin's gonna be, you know, is it, it's it's low, it's at 10% or is a lot of big companies are even way lower than that, but, you know, are we gonna increase margins? So my goal honestly is to increase the margins and increase growth. Revenue revenue. But I want good solid work. Safe work. And the growth is not necessarily the dollar amount or end gross revenue. The growth is have we become better at what we do?
Jack (30:37):
Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you on that. I'm in, I'm in a phase right now where we're really working on increasing and maintaining quality as we grow. 'cause it is, it is hard when you start adding more revenue and more customers. I had somebody on my podcast yesterday who told me about a crew that was laying down, pulling weeds. They were literally laying down on the ground. That was the like low point of their quality. Yeah. And then they needed to whip things into shape and they needed to let some managers grow go because they had some people who were promoted to manager just from tenure. They'd been there rather than, and they weren't really managing the staff to, Hey, get up off the ground. Like, what do you punching in and punching? What are you doing? Are you laying down? I I mean that would be a fair management question. Hey, are you, why are you laying down right now? You know? And if that person doesn't have a reasonable answer, you should probably fire 'em in front of everybody and say, Hey, thanks, you're fired. You can't do this. I mean, because o otherwise, if you let, if you tolerate people laying down at a job site,
Ryan (31:45):
You're only as good. Your whole company is only as good as that person laying down pulling Wes because you've, you've, you've accepted the behavior, right? Yeah. You've accepted the behavior that's poor. And, and even more importantly, what was, what if was a safety issue where someone could get hurt, you know what I mean? Not just quality control, but someone not being able to perform a job where they're doing it safely.
Jack (32:08):
Well, Ryan, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Yeah. Appreciate it. Uh, for folks listening who might want to network with you, how can we connect?
Ryan (32:15):
Well, that's a good question. Um, I'm working on that right now, but with, you know, through our website, we have contact forms there, um, and our Facebook. Um, but you know, I'm working on, like we talked earlier about the LinkedIn and uh, I'm working on all that.
Jack (32:31):
Yeah. Like parting comment for folks listening who do commercial and industrial work, LinkedIn is, is an amazing tool because a quick parting thing that we did today together was I was like, Hey, have you ever googled the, the job description of the, of your ideal customer? You're like, well, I want a plant manager and you named a company, I'm not gonna name who it is, but you knew who it was. And I'm like, well, let's Google plant manager company name city. So we googled it and sure enough we found their LinkedIn and then what did we find on their LinkedIn?
Ryan (33:03):
Well, they have other, other networking people that are,
Jack (33:06):
Well we found their personal email address.
Ryan (33:07):
Yeah. Email. And
Jack (33:08):
We found the guy's a OL email address. So send the dude a personal email and start a conversation. So yeah, I think
Ryan (33:16):
LinkedIn, that was
Jack (33:17):
Eyeopening for me. I think LinkedIn, um, for you would be very powerful from a hunting standpoint. Meaning these industrial clients, they, yeah, they're looking online, but they're also probably not getting a lot of contact from people via email or phone. No, uh, I would email them. I would call them, I would offer to bring them lunch. Um, I would sell your, your core value of safety and be like, Hey, what was the thing that changed that you told me about? It was, it was some new standard for it.
Ryan (33:46):
Oh, it was, yeah. The, the open and obvious.
Jack (33:49):
The open and obvious slip and fall. Like, and hey, are you aware of the recent change in opening open and obvious slip and fall? And, and maybe, maybe, well, I don't know. Tell me more. Well, what we found with several of our clients is X and um, I'd love to bring you some lunch and share with you a little more about it. Would you, would you guys be open to having me in for lunch to learn about how you can prevent slip and fall lawsuits at your company? Yeah,
Ryan (34:16):
I mean, that's huge. There's probably, we're at the Simon Show, so there's probably a mm-hmm . Uh, there's probably an attorney or someone over there that's actually having that, that discussion with a lot of, you know, snow and ice guys. Totally.
Jack (34:30):
Because if you, if your safety is your core value and that's really what they're buying you, that's a phone call and an email away.
Ryan (34:37):
Yeah, that makes sense. And it's, yeah, I wasn't, I didn't realize how LinkedIn was so, you know, prevalent and how, how you can just research it and, and get new resources, new context, as simple as that. That was surprising.
Jack (34:52):
I find LinkedIn's search function to be just, okay, so I actually just search the whole thing on Google. Mm-hmm . I'll search, you know, company name, job title, LinkedIn, and usually Google's like, here's the LinkedIn profile for somebody with this job title at this company. And then I click on it and I get started that way.
Ryan (35:17):
So that was eye opening for
Jack (35:18):
Me. Cool, man. Well Ryan, thank you for coming on the show. Yeah,
Ryan (35:21):
My pleasure. Appreciate it. Alright. Appreciate the opportunity.
Jack (35:24):
Absolutely. Hey everyone, Jack Jostes is here. I hope you enjoyed today's conversation with Ryan. And if you did, make sure you like this video and subscribe so you get weekly inspiration to grow your landscape company with sales, marketing, and leadership. And hey, if you, if you want to be like Ryan, if you wanna talk to us and get some ideas about who is your hell yes customer and how can you get more of the right leads finding you, let's have a 15 minute marketing brainstorm call. Go ahead and book yours@landscapersguide.com slash brainstorm. I've got a link in the show notes and we'll look forward to talking to you on that call. And now I'll see you in the next video.