What do you know now that you wish you knew when you were only 17 or 18 years old? I asked that question to Josh, who's now 23 and running a Design Build Landscaping company that started as a side hustle doing leaf cleanup when he was only 17. And what he shares in response to that is pretty fascinating.
So check out today's episode where I interview Josh and Max from Odd Jobs, LLC, in Michigan, about how they're using social media to grow their brand and acquire new customers, and how they're using video for not only marketing, but also account management.
This is a really exciting story. And one of my favorite things is they're at Arby's at one point realizing they'd each just made a thousand dollars, and they decide to invest that money into growing their company. This is an inspiring story about entrepreneurship, and I hope you enjoy it.
Today I've got a really great interview that, if you watch this, I want you to share this episode with somebody who's in high school. Share it with somebody who's 15, 16, 17 years old, because the people I'm interviewing today are now in their early 20s, but they started this when they were only 17 or 18 years old. And I'm just blown away by the conversation that we had. So let's hop right into it.
Interview With Josh & Max
Jack Jostes:
Hey, everyone. I'm excited today to interview Josh and Max. They're partners at Odd Jobs, LLC. Now, I've actually been emailing with Josh for years, and I'm excited to have you on the show because just tell us, how old were you when you started the company?
Josh:
Yeah, about 17 or 18 years old.
Jack Jostes:
Okay. So, 17, 18 years old. And now, here you are five years in. And when you started the company, did you imagine that you'd still be doing it five years from now, or was it just a summer fling? Tell me what led you to start the company?
Josh:
Yeah, definitely just an opportunity to make money over the summer, my first summer coming back from college. So I definitely didn't expect to be still doing it about five years later.
Jack Jostes:
I can say the same thing, honestly, about running Ramblin Jackson, and I started it when I was... I wasn't quite as young as you were. I think I was maybe 22 or 23, but I'm 12 years into it now, and it's grown into something way different than I thought it would be. So I'm excited. I'm excited to hear what you're up to.
Jack Jostes:
And Max, you came into the business a few years into it. What was some of your background in the green industry when you came in?
An Important Discussion At Arby's
Max:
I had just got done working for Mercedes-Benz right around Thanksgiving of 2018. And Josh called me one day and said, "Hey, do you want to help me do a leaf cleanup?" And so, I was like, "Sure, I got nothing going on." So I went and helped him do a leaf cleanup. We both made a couple hundred bucks. And then, we went to Arby's after we finished the cleanup to just basically sit down and talk.
Max:
And he was like, "Hey, I have more cleanups. I have all these customers in a spreadsheet. We should partner up and try to make this happen." So the next day we went out and bought leaf blowers because we broke the rakes that we were using. And then, the end of the day, we looked in our pockets and we both had about 1100 bucks. So, we looked at each other and said, "Game on." And it's been game on ever since.
Jack Jostes:
Oh, I love that. So going to Arby's, and then going to buy some leaf blowers and keeping it going. And you guys are in Michigan where there's quite a bit of leaf cleanup, right?
Max:
Absolutely, spring and fall. We get to double-tap it.
How Odd Jobs Has Grown
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, there you go. And so, tell me a little bit, how big is the company now? How many people do you have working for you? About how much revenue do you have?
Max:
Right now we have six employees. They're all full-time. It slowly progressed into more of a construction-based company. A lot of hardscape install, so your paver patios, your outdoor kitchens, your paver walkways, paver driveways, pergolas, retaining walls, things like that. So we've shied away from the leaf cleanups and the landscaping side of things, laying the mulch and all that stuff. And it's really made its way into more of a construction design and build.
Jack Jostes:
Wow. Well, that's really spectacular. So when you're doing that, how much of it... Are you bringing in trade partners? Are you subbing out? Do you have masonry people that you sub out to? How are you actually completing this amount of work?
Josh:
Yeah, we have a mixture of two. So we have a lot of it, a lot of what we do in-house, we can do, we have the capability to do. But for certain things like decks, or just for smaller miscellaneous projects that we sell that we really don't have the time to get around, we definitely work with other subcontractors to get that done.
Max:
Or things like plumbing, and electrical, and running water lines, all that fun stuff, we subcontract that out. But all the hardscaping we do in-house.
Jack Jostes:
Wow. Well, that's awesome. So, one of the questions that I've had, I've been following you for a while, and you guys have been emailing with me and stuff. Do you feel like the name, Odd Jobs, does that still suit who you are and where you're heading?
Josh:
That's a great question. So that's something that we still battle with a lot. Funny story is that we actually did a project last summer, our biggest retaining wall ever. And side-by-side, the next-door neighbor was also getting a project done. They're also a contractor, and the contractor's name was Dr. Oddjobs.
Max:
Dr. Odd Jobs. Yeah, his name's Ryan. He's a great guy.
Josh:
Yeah. So the reason why we mentioned that is because he was actually there doing a project that was about 110, 120,000. So that opened our minds up to, is it really the name that stops you, or is it more so the person behind the name?
Josh:
So we definitely have a vision to start another company, more luxury. It's going to be called Lake Point Design and Build. But at the same time, we realized that it's not so much the name, it's more so who do the customers see behind that name, and what can they attach that to? That's more important than just like, "Okay, you guys are Odd Jobs." But yeah, we've been battling with that for quite some time.
Max:
Also seeing your finished quality product. Once you combine a quality product, I don't think the name's going to hold you back much. But obviously, you're not going to call Odd Jobs for a $3 million pool installation. You're going to want someone who's more along the lines of like a pool company, or a design and build, or things like that.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I agree. The name obviously doesn't hold you back, but it could potentially, maybe to somebody who's searching online. If they find you online, let's say they're Googling landscape design or landscape construction, I think they might look at the Lake Point Design and Build first over Odd Jobs. So that's where I think when people don't know you and they're not a referral, the name can impact it a little more.
How Social Media Has Helped To Attract More Customers
Jack Jostes:
The other thing, I really like the Lake Point Design and Build because a lot of people Google landscape design. And when you have that word design in your name, it'll help you show up on Google a bit higher. And like you said, you're selling these big projects currently. So what are you doing to attract these bigger clients? Are they upsells from the... Are these all leaf cleanups that are now having you do their patio? How are you guys landing these gigs?
Josh:
Yeah. So, two things. First, I hit on the first part. So one thing that I did recently for our Google My Business page is I actually changed the name from just Odd Jobs to Odd Jobs, Pavers, and Landscape. So it was a little bit of a cheat code to pop up on SEO more when people are searching for those specific terms.
Josh:
But to your second point, a lot of the work that we're getting is just from a lot of attention. Max and I do a lot of social media marketing. So we go live a lot on Facebook, live a lot on Instagram, a lot of posting frequently. We like to post at least three times a day. And a lot of content that I've written myself, I've written about 60 articles for the website. So just any type of SEO possible.
Max:
Also doing a lot of blog footage for YouTube and stuff.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, that's one of the things that you've always done well. And Josh, in particular, I think it was before Max even joined on, I saw some of your social media at a school fair or something? Does that ring a bell? Did you do some sort of school fair back in the day?
Max:
That must've been the business expo that we attended in West Bloomfield.
Josh:
Yeah. So I figured that... Well, this is 2018-
Max:
That was 29.
Josh:
... 2019 winter-ish? October? Nonetheless, the point being, Max and I decided to make ourselves real to the community instead of just being on social media. So we actually put together a couple bucks, got some marketing materials, a pretty big banner, a standing banner, some handouts, and some t-shirts. Not these, but some different ones. And essentially just made ourselves real to the community by actually being at this expo, and giving a chance for people to actually shake our hands, say hi, see who we were.
Josh:
And it didn't really bring in too much revenue. I remember specifically we got two or three jobs, but I think it just built some credibility that these guys are actually in the area attempting to actually show their face. And, hey, they're young guys doing good stuff.
Jack Jostes:
That's awesome. Yeah, I just remember seeing that. And your social media has stood out to me because it's actually you two doing it. So a lot of people ask me about, "Hey, social media, social media. Hey, can you do my social media?" And I say, "No," because I really think you need to be out doing it with your phone at a job site, taking photos, taking pictures with people's dog.
Jack Jostes:
So talk to us some of the things, what's working?You've been doing this for many years. What are some of the things that are working for generating leads for your landscaping company with social media that you would recommend to other landscapers?
The Importance Of Consistency When It Comes To Social Media
Max:
I think the Google SEO, that's extremely important. But just posting consistent content, always switching it up like, "Hey guys, we're here at this job site today working on this," or, "Hey, we're over here today working on that."
Max:
It's being consistent, always posting, posting new content. If you're in the situation where you don't really have a lot of new content and you got to recycle old content, try to be creative and not try to post the same thing twice, even though you're posting the same thing twice. So maybe you could post the same picture three different times, three different ways. Just trying to make the most out of the completed projects that you've done, showcasing what you're capable of doing.
Max:
And maybe even trying to focus a little more on things you want to do, like posting, "Hey, I'm X company looking to get into installing pools. If you or your friends want to get a pool installed, we're looking to give you a deal doing at cost." So just trying to reach out and really find what works for you. What works for us is just posting consistent content.
Jack Jostes:
Right on. And in particular, video. I'm curious, what has been the response to the video that you're posting on YouTube or Facebook Live?
Josh:
Yeah. I think video gives you a lot of credibility. Because a lot of people don't have the confidence themselves to actually pull their phone out and speak to a camera, let alone do that... Sometimes we go live. We go live a lot. So this is live, people are messing up. We're saying things incorrectly. We may slur our words. It's very real. And people don't have the confidence to do that.
Josh:
So I think it just gives us a lot of altitude in terms of like, "Hey, these guys are real. They're actually going live. They're showing what it actually looks like. No construction project is perfect." All these different factors. It's a little bit of like a psychology to it in a sense, but it works a lot. I think video is the best form of content that we've ever used, for sure.
Jack Jostes:
I love video too. And when I talk with a lot of landscapers, they talk about how it's really a relationship business, and you got to earn people's trust. And in the past that most of that has come from word of mouth. How do you feel like video helps you build that relationship? Have you noticed that people who have watched your video, do they feel like they know you?
Josh:
Absolutely.
How To Use Video In Account Management
Max:
Well, also some of the times, instead of sending a text or a call for follow-up, we'll send video followups. So it's another way to get up close and personal with us, see our faces, watch us talk.
Josh:
Yeah. The video part is golden. That's been worth a lot of bucks to us.
Max:
Absolutely.
Josh:
Like, "Hey, Jack, it's Josh and Max. We're at a job site right now. Check out this retaining wall. We can't wait to build your retaining wall, too." Just small stuff like that, and the customer's like, "Wow, that's very personable. That's very upfront." And it's a video, too, so it's like, "Man, those guys are good."
Max:
And doubling back on the video, everybody... I mean, not everybody, but a large majority of Americans, they get off work, or they get done with school, they go home, and they just watch videos. So, just being able to be in the mix of the videos, it'll catch it one way or the other. So it's just another good way to get your face out in front of a bunch of people.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. I agree. I've been doing my video for about 12 years. And last March, I actually rebranded it to The Landscaper's Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing. And we started offering it as a podcast also, and our viewership, or our listenership, or our audience, rather, doubled. I was really amazed.
Jack Jostes:
We continued getting the same amount of video views, and then a whole other bunch of people started just listening to it that don't watch the video. So one thing you might want to consider is a podcast. It's actually taking basically video, and exporting the audio and releasing it as a podcast. And you'd be surprised how many people would listen to that. You guys are doing a podcast?
Josh:
Not our own, but we've been featured on quite a few. So it's actually helped. It definitely builds a lot of credibility.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah, being a guest for sure can be a great way. And I like what you're saying about sending those personal videos. At Ramblin Jackson, we actually send personal videos all the time to clients. We use tools like Soapbox and Vidyard so we can send a video with a proposal.
Jack Jostes:
And this is something that you can do when you're sending a bigger project proposal to somebody. Send them a video, like, "Hey, Josh, here's the plan for your backyard. We're going to put a patio here. We're going to do a walkway here. We're going to have a retaining wall here. Here's a breakdown on the budget." And it helps them understand what they're buying. So if they get two bids, one from you and one from someone else, and yours costs more, but they understand what they're buying partly from that video, you have a better chance of closing the deal.
Jack Jostes:
And then that personal message is something that the people listening, especially if you do commercial landscaping, you can have your account managers text those little video updates to your clients, property managers, things like that.
What Are Some Things You Wished You Knew When You Were 17 Starting The Business?
Jack Jostes:
One thing I wanted to ask you about was, you started this company when you were like 17, 18 years old. Here you are now, you're in your early 20s, 22, 23. What advice would you have for maybe somebody who's watching this who's, I don't know, 16, 17, and they're thinking about maybe starting their own business? What is some advice that you wish you knew that you know now, when you were just starting out?
Josh:
Yeah. I'll say something, and then I'll let Max go. We can just go back and forth. I think it's good to know, what do you want to do? I feel like if I would've known my end goal upfront, I could have got here much faster. So, in my eyes, at 17 or 18, I just wanted to make some money.
Josh:
But if I would've known that I wanted to do design and build-type projects, or a specific type of landscape outdoor service, then that would have probably helped me just gear more towards that early up front, and just fast-track my way there. So I definitely would have liked to know my destination before I started.
Max:
And I think the fact that if you have a goal, instead of just trying to guess on how to get there, it's much easier to reverse engineer the goal. And then you know exactly what you need to do in order to reach your goal. And that way, it's just those little subtle reminders to push yourself, like, "Hey, I need to be doing 10,000 a month," or, "Hey, I need to be doing 10,000 a week." Or even, "Hey, I need to be doing 10,000 a day." So how can I get from zip, zilch, to 10 smackeroonies in a day?
Josh:
Oh yeah. After that I would say, just recognize what's needed to do your type of work. So up front, I wish I would've known that, "Hey, we're going to need some type of debt to be able to do this." That would have helped me also plan better ahead. When I say debt, I mean a machine. So I wish I would've known, "Hey, we're going to need this. We're going to need that." Just things that you wish you would've known earlier.
Josh:
But also 16, 17, I'd tell my younger self, "Read books. Get around people who are super motivational. And get around people who are doing exactly what you want to do." Because you're going to have, at that age, a lot of noise from a lot of different sources. And it's best to just listen from one source 100%, than to have mom, sister, grandma, everyone pulling you different directions. "Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? This, that." Versus, "Hey, bro, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going." Stuff like that.
Max:
And I think the most important part is building your brand. Get creating content, getting familiarity out there. You want to put your face in front of a bunch of people. So if you're thinking about starting something, you're not going to do it hiding under a rock. You need to get your face out there in front of a bunch of people. You need to be posting videos, making content, taking pictures, as much as you can do to build your own brand.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Well, and you guys have certainly done a great job with that. And the content you're making now is way better than it was before. And I think the thing with content is, it's uncomfortable to get started, and you just have to start doing it. And there's a certain level of good enough that you need to reach with content, and then you do it, and then you keep raising the bar on good enough. And your content gets better, and the work that you're doing gets better.
Jack Jostes:
But you've got to just get started and start posting stuff, start making that first selfie video and post it. Knowing that the end destination is something that I think we all, looking back, wish we knew. I know that starting out for me, and especially in what I'm doing now, I didn't know. I knew that I enjoyed writing. I knew that I enjoyed internet marketing and helping small businesses. And for me, it was a trial and error of working with certain kinds of businesses and realizing, "Hey, I really enjoyed those and they paid me well. And hey, I really didn't like working with these businesses and they didn't pay me very well."
Jack Jostes:
So I think some of it is just getting out there, and getting your feet wet and doing some work. And then hanging out at Arby's and realizing you have a thousand dollars in your pocket, and that this is pretty good. So, I love that.
Book Recommendations
Jack Jostes:
Tell me a little bit about what are some of the books that you're reading. Josh, you mentioned reading certain things. What are you reading and listening to that's helped you in your business?
Josh:
Prior to really partnering up with Max, I think a lot of the stuff that I was reading was just a mindset-type thing. So, your Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich. The real basics, the cliche stuff.
Josh:
But more specifically recently, Max and I have been reading a lot about Grant Cardone's information. Grant Cardone, Brandon Dawson, really the 10X community. So, really diving in there and learning a lot about promotions, sales, and marketing.
Josh:
So, as Max and I being the people who are really in charge of the promotion, the sales, and the marketing, that's super important for us to actually understand. So recommendations, hard copies of books that you could read would be, 10X Rule. I'd probably start with Sell Or Be Sold.
Max:
Profit First.
Josh:
And Profit First, yeah.
Jack Jostes:
That's one of my top three favorite books is Profit First. And there's also, I haven't read, I think his name is Shawn, maybe Shawn Van Dyke. He wrote the Profit First Contractor. I haven't read that one, but it's a bit more construction-focused. And Grant's content's really good too. And listening. So for me, audio books and podcasts are a great thing. Especially with landscaping, if you're out driving to job sites, you can be listening to these books on the go and constantly learning while you're working. So, I love it.
Jack Jostes:
And what questions do you have for me? I know we've been emailing for years and we're hanging out on the show now. What questions do you have for me?
Questions For Jack
Josh:
Yeah. Why did you choose landscaping as your sector that you were going to focus on? There's so many more lucrative industries, service-wise. So why landscaping?
Jack Jostes:
I'm writing a new book, it's called The Tree of Good Fortune. And in it, I have a chapter on picking your hell yes customer. And I had a coach once tell me to draw three circles on a piece of paper. And there's your passion, what you love doing. There's profit, you've got to make money. And then there's got to be demand for what you do.
Jack Jostes:
And I experimented with local SEO for a lot of different businesses. I've worked with, honestly, over... I've had over 800 customers, and I've always done a good job. I found though that I enjoy working with landscapers. I used to work at a plant nursery and garden center in Illinois. And I just, I appreciate plant people. And construction is interesting, it's cool. I'm interested in it. I would say I'm passionate about it.
Jack Jostes:
And the other thing is, there's the demand. There's a lot of people searching on the internet for landscapers. So the trade that I have of local SEO, digital marketing, sales, I can help landscapers because there's demand online. And because of that, it's mutually profitable. I can charge money for what I do, and they get a result, and I'm enjoying it.
Jack Jostes:
So it was again, though, it was part of the experience though of trying and working with... And I still have clients in other industries that work with me. I just don't focus my marketing there. And I think that's something about marketing. You can really market and go for certain projects.
Jack Jostes:
And the funny thing is, even since I've gone all-in on the landscaping industry, I get just as many referrals and leads for stuff that isn't landscaping. And I'm like, "Have you seen our website?" And they're like, "Yeah, we know that you do the landscaping thing, but can you help us with this?" And I can decide if we want to do that.
Josh:
Awesome. So for any service company, what are three to-do's that we could do today to get us in front of our hell yes customer?
Jack Jostes:
Well, the first thing would be clarifying who your hell yes customer is. And I would write down number one, what is the number one service that you want more of that you do really well, that you can profit and deliver high quality? And I'd get really clear on that, and make sure that that's clear on your website. So if it's outdoor living spaces, if you're moving into this construction realm, you'd want to get clear on that.
Jack Jostes:
The second thing you could do is search engine optimization around that service. So as an example, there are searches for spring cleanup, fall cleanup, yard cleanup. People Google that. And then they Google very differently when they want landscape design, or when they want outdoor living, or patio builders, or deck builders. So, you've mentioned a lot of different things. So getting clear on that, and you can build out individual pages for those things.
Jack Jostes:
And then the third thing would be always be collecting reviews and testimonials. And since you guys are good at video, when you finish a project with somebody who's happy, say, "Hey, would you mind recording a little video for me about what you like about this?" And that's where you get a video of a homeowner in front of their dream landscape and they talk about how great it was. And you start putting those out there, then people find you for your hell yes service. And you have reviews from other hell yes customers, they're like, "Yeah, that person hired them for what I want. And I think I'm going to trust them to do it for me." So those would be my three tips.
Josh:
Okay, cool. I appreciate that. Thanks a lot. I'm definitely going to do all three of those.
Jack Jostes:
I believe that you will. I want to see it when you do it. So, one of the awesome things that you guys did today was your internet connection wasn't working at your office and you hustled. Where are you right now?
Max:
We are at a-
Josh:
A local high school, actually.
Max:
Yeah, we're at the high school that we went... Not Josh, but that I graduated from.
Josh:
We snagged a conference room.
Jack Jostes:
Awesome. Good job just running over there and getting that so we could do this interview. I appreciate it.
Max:
Yeah, no problem, man.
Josh:
Absolutely.
Jack Jostes:
All right. Josh, Max, thanks so much for coming on the show. Where can we connect with you online?
Max:
You can find us on Instagram at oddjobs.mi
Max:
Or you could find our website at-
Josh:
https://odd-jobs.co. And you can definitely find us on Facebook, Odd Jobs LLC. You'll see the same logo everywhere across the internet. So, once you've found this, you've found us.
Jack Jostes:
Cool. Well, I'll link up to all that in the show notes. And it's been really fun interviewing you and learning about how much you've grown your business. It's definitely inspiring to me. And hopefully you all learned some cool things that you can use with your social media, video, and more.
Jack Jostes:
My name's Jack Jostes, and thanks so much for checking out today's episode. We look forward to seeing you next week.
Jack Jostes:
All right, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this episode of The Landscapers Guide to Modern Sales and Marketing. That was really fun because I've been connected to Josh for years. I remember when he was just starting out, and we've just connected. I asked him how he found me and he said that he opted into one of my video funnels. But it's all about eventually actually talking with people, and it was such a pleasure to talk with him today.
Jack Jostes:
So, check out our show notes to connect with Odd Jobs, LLC online, check out their social media. They're doing a really great job. And as a reminder, I'd love to see you all at our book launch party in October. You can pre-order my new book, The Tree of Good Fortune, available exclusively at treeofgoodfortune.com. Pre-order a copy, learn more about our book launch party that's coming up at the GIE Expo, and I hope to see you there or ship you a signed copy of my book when they're done. Thank you.