Robert Felton [00:00:00]:
A confused mind does not buy. So by letting people know what's coming, telling them kind of and removing that uncomfort. Otherwise, they're going to just be thinking, what's coming? What are they going to do? Are they going to sell me something? But if you tell them I'm going to sell you something and this is what's going to happen at the end, they can relax into it, enjoy the meeting, and actually have a conversation.
00:20 – What Are “The Big Three” Sales Tactics?
Jack Jostes [00:00:20]:
All right, everyone, welcome back to The Landscaper's Guide Podcast. Today, we are at the base of Loveland Ski Area in Colorado. I'm with our Director of Client Strategy, Robert Felton.
Robert Felton [00:00:32]:
Hey, everybody.
Jack Jostes [00:00:32]:
Really glad we got out. Today we're gonna talk about the big three. These are three things that if you do this, will make sales easier for you, and you should share this with your salespeople, your project managers, your designers. It'll make their lives a lot easier. So, Robert, what is the first of the big three?
00:51 – The Power of the Verbal Agreement
Robert Felton [00:00:51]:
The big three, I mean, the first of the big three is always the verbal agreement. So taking control of the meeting, letting people know what's coming next. I heard a great quote recently. I don't know where it's from, but a confused mind does not buy. So by letting people know what's coming, telling them kind of and removing that uncomfort, otherwise, they're going to just be thinking, what's coming? What are they going to do? Are they going to sell me something? But if you tell them I'm going to sell you something and this is what's going to happen at the end, they can relax into it, enjoy the meeting, and actually have a conversation.
Jack Jostes [00:01:20]:
Yeah. And we kind of did a verbal agreement with the audience.
Robert Felton [00:01:23]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:01:23]:
Before we got started here, we're like, hey, we're going to talk about the big three, and it's going to help you with sales. So now people listening know. They're not going to wait any longer to know, do I want to even listen to this podcast? What are some of the basic elements of a verbal agreement?
Robert Felton [00:01:38]:
One of the hardest things is finding that balance between small talk and when to put the verbal agreement. So I think it's always. You mean some of those obvious things like, are you ready to get started? Let's get started. I'm going to tell you what we're going to do today. So figuring out that transition for you, I think is the hardest thing that I find when telling other landscapers and ramblers about it is how do you find that move? You have a really good one. I can't remember. Do you remember what you said?
Jack Jostes [00:02:01]:
So I call them transition statements.
Robert Felton [00:02:03]:
Transition.
Jack Jostes [00:02:03]:
I was just thinking that it was a really long time ago, but I saw Jeffrey Gitomer.
Robert Felton [00:02:09]:
Okay.
Jack Jostes [00:02:09]:
And Jeffrey Gitomer wrote the Little Red Book of Selling.
Robert Felton [00:02:12]:
Okay.
Jack Jostes [00:02:13]:
And I read that book and I went to one of his workshops in Colorado and I listened to one of his audiobooks, and it would be something like, hey, before we get started, I have us down for an hour today. Is that about what you were planning?
Robert Felton [00:02:26]:
Yep.
Jack Jostes [00:02:26]:
And so he just kind of slips them in and gets into it. Hey, before we get started, or hey, before I forget, I have us down. And then. So, yeah, I like to just kind of do it.
Robert Felton [00:02:35]:
I kind of like to do it, too. You mean you got to kind of work through it and figure out what works for you. But like I always say, are you ready to get started? Or I'm going to tell you what we're doing today. I kind of like, I'm going to tell you what we're doing today. It really gives me control. And then there's some important elements, such as establishing the time, you know, telling them what's going to happen at the end. So typically, at the end of this meeting, one of two things, one of three things. One of these things will happen, also gives you permission to tell them no.
Robert Felton [00:03:01]:
Gets you permission. Like the end of this call, all I'm gonna be offering is the audit. There's a cost with that, $797. I'm not gonna try to sell you some large marketing plan today, but I am going to talk about making a decision on the audit. Is that something you can agree to?
Jack Jostes [00:03:15]:
So.
Robert Felton [00:03:16]:
And they always say yes, and then I bring it back up.
Jack Jostes [00:03:19]:
And then also, by the way, if the audit isn't a good fit for you, would it be okay if I let you know that maybe I have a different resource for you to help you with what you need?
Robert Felton [00:03:27]:
Yeah.
03:27 – Jack’s Sales Meeting Gone Wrong
Jack Jostes [00:03:27]:
And so this is really important. So I just had a client call with one of and they were struggling from Nice Guy Itis meaning they are selling. They get into these meetings and they feel like they have to go all the way through the meeting and all the way through creating a proposal, even when they know it's a no or they're taking on projects that are too small. And so the verbal agreement can help people because if they get no on the table early, like, hey, by the way, sometimes I do these property visits and I realize that clients need something that we're not actually able to help them with. So would it be okay if I just let you know that and maybe made a referral to somebody who could help you? By the way, I do want to work with you and I want to learn about your project. And sometimes that happens. So is that.
Robert Felton [00:04:15]:
I think that's a really good point too, because it's so important. Like, when I bring this up, sometimes people, oh, that's a salesy tactic. And I'm like, it's also really respecting the other person. And that really gives me hope or more strength and confidence in this tactic because it's like, hey, I don't want to drive out and do all this stuff and waste your time. So you take off of work. So let's make that agreement. Because a lot of times if you don't give them the option to say no, they're just going to go with whatever you say. Okay, I guess we make a proposal next.
Robert Felton [00:04:42]:
When they also know they're not going to buy.
Jack Jostes [00:04:44]:
Well, let me tell you about a remodeler I did not hire recently. So we brought out and man, it was a project finding people to even come and meet with us. It's just many people didn't reply at all.
Robert Felton [00:04:57]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:04:57]:
So we finally got to that point and somebody came and there were two. And it was really unclear why there were two people and what they did.
Robert Felton [00:05:04]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:05:04]:
And one of them emailed us to get our budget before the meeting. And I gave them a range y and they didn't copy the other person who was then there. And so then this other person and we had prepared this video and a document, like all this stuff, like, this is what we're looking for. And she hadn't read it, she hadn't watched it, and she was totally unaware of that.
Robert Felton [00:05:28]:
Those things existed.
Jack Jostes [00:05:29]:
Those things existed. I'm like, hey, look, I actually led the meeting. Like, I have us down or up to an. And I truly did. I know I'm gonna need to leave on the hour. So is that okay? Can we get everything done in an hour?
Robert Felton [00:05:41]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:05:42]:
And she was joking like, oh, this guy.
Robert Felton [00:05:44]:
We should hire him to do sales for us.
Jack Jostes [00:05:45]:
And I'm like, okay, I'm serious. Like, we hadn't gotten anything done. And I'm like, look, just as a reminder, I've gotta head out in half an hour.
Robert Felton [00:05:55]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:05:56]:
And then like five minutes ahead of time, she like, laughed at me. And at the end of the hour, I was just like, look, I got. I gotta go.
Robert Felton [00:06:02]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:06:02]:
And we didn't work with them. And they told us that communication was strong, but I'm like, so what are some reasons that why should we move forward together? Communication's really good. And I'm like, in, in this conversation, this lady was half of what the other person was saying. The budget.
Robert Felton [00:06:21]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:06:21]:
And I'm like, you guys are 100% apart in what you're telling me. This might cost. I don't know.
Robert Felton [00:06:28]:
Oh, that's frustrating.
Jack Jostes [00:06:29]:
So the verbal agreement protected me because on the hour I'm like, I'm out of here.
Robert Felton [00:06:33]:
Yep. Yeah, it really helps me when I have those back to back meetings. Those times where I gotta. And I mean I'll tell one other story is unfortunately I had to put my dog down and we had someone come to the house. And I mean it was really nice because the lady was so kind and she gave the best verbal agreement ever. She told me exactly what's going to happen, what could happen, what my dog was going to experience, what we might experience, how she had plenty of time, there's no hurry to not worry about her agenda. And then what was going to happen at each step of the way so, so I could relax and spend the last minutes with my dog. And I knew what was coming next.
Robert Felton [00:07:09]:
She stepped out of the room, she over communicated and it was just a really powerful meeting for me where I was able to know, you know, I didn't want my dog to be in pain. And she assured me of things and there was all those steps. So.
Jack Jostes [00:07:22]:
Well, I'm sorry that Kaya has passed.
Robert Felton [00:07:24]:
I know, I'm really.
Jack Jostes [00:07:25]:
Kaya was a great dog for folks listening who used to come to the office back in the day.
Robert Felton [00:07:29]:
Yeah, she won best dressed for the holiday party that one year. So got me a gift card. That's a long time ago.
07:40 – Aaron Wolfe’s Story: How Showing Up On Time Builds Trust
Jack Jostes [00:07:40]:
And you know, I'm gonna roll a clip here of our client, Aaron Wolfe from Wickenberg Landscape, because after he started leading meetings this way, he more than doubled the amount of sales meetings he could do. So here's, here's a clip of Aaron using the verbal agreement or talking about how it works.
Aaron Wolfe [00:07:57]:
If I was an hour late to a meeting that was normal. It was, I mean, I can remember 10, 20 years ago, I'd never show up to anything on time. And then it's just as we move along in life and we realize how unprofessional it is, we get better. And you know, over the last year or so I thought I was doing pretty good because at least I got to the point if I was going to be late, I would call or text them and say, hey, I'm going to be late. Is that okay? And for a long time I thought that was still okay to do. But in real life it's not. We just need to, you know, if we're going to make the commitment, we're expecting them to make it onto the meeting on time or to be there on time. We as the professionals should at least be able to start doing that.
Aaron Wolfe [00:08:41]:
So you guys have just really taught us the importance of, of doing, doing the right things and then also setting the stage. If we can show up on time, it builds confidence with the customer. So then when we tell them we're going to have a bid to them in three days, wow, maybe I believe that. And it kind of goes from there.
09:01 – Selling the Next Step
Robert Felton [00:09:01]:
Let's move on to the second big. Are we ready?
Jack Jostes [00:09:05]:
Yes. What is the second of the second.
Robert Felton [00:09:06]:
One is very related to the verbal agreement. It's about selling the next step. Very related to buyers or buyers or buyers. So, you know, charging for the appointment, things like this. This is really built into this milestone because when I talk to clients, they're like, well, if we could get them to this design phase, our close rate goes up to 90%. I mean, we get to this step, they go up to 60%. So instead of trying to go out and sell the whole thing, I mean, it's all about, are they qualified? Does it make sense to move on to the next step and making micro decisions at each one of those? So does your team know what comes next? Is it clear? Does the client understand? And if you can keep them moving along, the likelihood of them closing goes up more and more. And they're probably a qualified leader.
Jack Jostes [00:09:49]:
Yeah, I'm a big fan of selling the next step and getting it in the calendar while you're at the meeting with the client. So if you have a phone appointment or a phone call, rather, somebody calls in and you learn, yeah, you're in our service area and roughly budget ranges are aligned, the next step is to come and meet at your property. How about next Tuesday? Like get it in the calendar whenever possible. I see a lot of sales die here because the person answering the phone doesn't have the calendar of the person that's going to be doing it. So best is getting the appointment in the calendar, ideally having the openings. When I'm doing any kind of account management, I bring, I write down ahead of the meeting three openings in my calendar. So that way at the end of the meeting, I'm not doing, oh, let me look at my calendar. Oh, it's so busy.
Jack Jostes [00:10:43]:
And instead it's like, hey, I've got, like, I've got a few openings. How does, how do these times work?
Robert Felton [00:10:47]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:10:48]:
So then when you go and do the on site consultation, also schedule whatever. And I think for landscapers, you got to pick a dollar amount where it makes sense to either go back and present the proposal in person or schedule.
Robert Felton [00:11:01]:
A zoom meeting or even a phone call to be like, it's in your inbox. Like, I don't know. Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:11:07]:
That then also helps you in sales because you get busy, you've got other tasks to do, and now I've got to do this thing. But when you have an actual deadline with the client, you get it done. And keeping that next step in the calendar, this tip alone will help you more than anyone else. Because most landscape companies or remodelers in my experience, they come and they meet and then they tell you they're going to send a proposal and then they never do. And like, you're the one that's like, hey, I met with you, I listened to you, here's a plan. And now I have a meeting to like, oh, you feel like this is a little too much? Let's, let's make this a fire pit instead of a fireplace or whatever. We're going to change out.
Robert Felton [00:11:49]:
I think one other really important thing to note here is an internal success of this plan. So like a lot of times I'm talking to landscapers and they're like, like, oh, I'm trying to get these quotes out as fast as I can. And oh my God, I'm so stressed and people are calling me and I'm like, well, if it takes you two weeks and you put it in the calendar and you're clear that that's the next step, the client will accept it. I mean, it takes us two weeks to get an audit done and people don't freak out about it because I over communicate. The next step is I need two weeks to get this done. So instead of trying to do everything as fast as you can, can you standardize these things so the team understands, so the client understands it's in the calendar. So you mean I listen to people and they're like, oh, we get them out in five days. I'm like, that's pretty good.
Robert Felton [00:12:28]:
But if you don't communicate that it's going to be five days or maybe standardize it and all two weeks, your client will accept it. They won't even call you most of the time.
12:36 – The Real Reason Clients Ghost You After a Quote
Jack Jostes [00:12:36]:
I think this is especially important during the design phase too. I think it's at breakfast at Champions Table at Elevate recently, there was a guy who was telling me about a $200,000 construction project he launched at the design phase. They paid three grand for the design and he didn't tell them it was going to take a month to do the design. And so. And there was no communication in between. So that next step, how long is it going to happen? And one thing I just got that I was thinking maybe we could try for landscapers is an automated email. Like, hey, it could be automated. Hey, Robert, your design is now in progress.
Jack Jostes [00:13:14]:
Yeah, because my accountant is doing my taxes and I got an email like, hey, your accountant is now reviewing everything. Like, we'll be getting back to you within 72 hours with an initial draft of your tax return. I'm like, oh, we're on track with the big three things to help landscapers close more sales. The first one is a verbal agreement, which is basically agreeing to an agenda for the meeting. And it includes the time of the meeting, what you're going to talk about. I would put budget in there. If we're going to talk about a design fee, I'd say, hey, at the end we're going to talk about our design fee, which is typically $3,000. And yes and no, you can tell me yes, you can tell me no.
Jack Jostes [00:13:57]:
The second thing is next steps.
Robert Felton [00:13:59]:
The magic word typically is so great here.
14:02 – The Paper Strategy
Jack Jostes [00:14:02]:
Typically we're gonna have a follow up meeting, right? And then what is the third thing?
Robert Felton [00:14:07]:
The third one is the paper strategy, which is one that I really learned from you. It was one of the harder ones. And the paper strategy is about removing the pressure off of you as the designer, as the salesperson and instead putting it on the paper. So I mean, it's the real core understanding of the pricing page and why we recommend it for all our clients is instead of, hey, how much does this cost? You're like, let's look at this together. Now I'm on your team. I'm working with you as your designer to collaborate and understand investments and what I can get for them. First, being the bad guy who's going to tell you it's going to be $120,000, because now the pressure's on you versus the paper. And that can really be used in a variety of different ways.
Robert Felton [00:14:50]:
The process, you know, we need you to follow this process so we don't make mistakes. So you get the great product that we assure or the pricing. I mean, going back to Aaron, he said he sells. I don't percentages, but he's cut. He could do it 75% faster is what he said. I don't know.
Jack Jostes [00:15:07]:
It was something like that.
Robert Felton [00:15:08]:
Yeah. So closing is maintenance. And he's just like, people ask questions. They have the context from the paper to have a conversation with Aaron about pricing. And that's the big here is that it works in a lot of different directions. Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:15:22]:
So the paper, you know, for people listening or watching, it doesn't necessarily always mean an actual piece of paper, but like it could actually be, you know, your website.
Robert Felton [00:15:32]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:15:33]:
And now, hey, let me share with you our pricing guide. You know, so. And now, now we're looking like it is removing it off of me and onto something. Hey, let's look at. Let's look at the price ranges. So typically, you know, our maintenance plans start between two and thousand dollars a year. We offer fertilization, we offer irrigation. We offer spring and fall cleanups.
Jack Jostes [00:16:00]:
We offer fall color.
Robert Felton [00:16:02]:
I loved Aaron's point of like, one person was like, I love this package, but the other package is a few things I need from there. Would the price be somewhere in between? Aaron said yes, and they met and he closed.
Jack Jostes [00:16:12]:
Awesome.
Robert Felton [00:16:13]:
So just a real cool story from him.
Jack Jostes [00:16:15]:
Well, I love it. So we've the big three verbal agreements, next steps, the paper.
Robert Felton [00:16:21]:
Easy way to remember.
16:21 – Making Sales Simpler With Systems & Marketing
Jack Jostes [00:16:22]:
So the paper. And what we actually do for landscapers who don't maybe know is we help them build these systems and coach their people on building a pricing. We actually write the pricing guide for you. So we build your website, we write your sales process into that website, and it really, it becomes sales enablement is the kind of marketing jargon word for it. But we're enabling you to do sales more easily.
Robert Felton [00:16:48]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:16:48]:
Helping your customer with pricing guides or, you know, a lot of contractors are busy. Oh, let me, Let me pull open my phone photos. And now, like, I've met with people and like, I don't want to see all your personal photos in between you scanning through all your things for some photo, like, show me a web page, a gallery. That's an example.
Robert Felton [00:17:10]:
Project, featured project.
Jack Jostes [00:17:12]:
So all these things, Things make selling easier. It makes it easier to buy from you, and it reduces the stress on the salesperson. It increases your company's capacity.
Robert Felton [00:17:22]:
I agree.
Jack Jostes [00:17:23]:
Because I mean, everyone's talking about labor, labor, labor. And yeah, we're all, We're. We're trying to hire people right now at Ramblin Jackson. It's hard.
Robert Felton [00:17:30]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:17:30]:
And the more that we can use videos or what the website content, the more relief our people get.
Robert Felton [00:17:38]:
I agree. I Mean, it's really relieved. A lot of the things that I was uncomfortable about in sales when I started of, like, I mean, getting in there, doing those. I mean, you still have to do that hard work. But these are tools that just make your life simpler, gets your client moving along faster. And the hardest part is just getting the client to understand what's happening. And it makes them way more comfortable and it makes your life easier, so you're more comfortable.
Jack Jostes [00:18:00]:
Well, Robert, we are in the thick of it at Ramblin Jackson. Yeah, we're growing. We're at a growth phase. You've joined the leadership team in December. It's currently March. We are. It is, it is our winter harvest right now at Ramblin Jackson. Meaning, like, we take on a lot of clients.
Jack Jostes [00:18:19]:
There's a lot of work to do. Like, it's really a stressful time. It's. It's a lot like springtime for landscapers when they. When the snow melts wherever they are and people, their phone is blowing up and they're doing all these estimates, they're renewing. Why are we going skiing in the midst of all of the chaos?
18:38 – Why We Hit the Slopes Mid-Season (And You Should Too)
Robert Felton [00:18:38]:
I think it's just important to. You know what I mean? We're in the weeds right now, so we're doing so much of the day to day and, you know, getting through the meetings and smiling and it's just great to talk in a chairlift, talk big ideas, revisit the things that we need to talk about. So, I mean, I really need it today. And I think it's just going to help me align with you. And, yeah, I think we'll be able to move faster, further because of taking a break.
Jack Jostes [00:19:03]:
I agree. So we put this in the calendar months ago. I know. And I checked in with you and Jessica, unfortunately wasn't feeling well. She normally comes. We've done this traditionally every year, and I'm always going to do it. And I think it's a good tip for the people listening to go spend some time with your staff, some of your management team, in person, doing something fun even when it's busy. Because one the drive here was two hours.
Jack Jostes [00:19:29]:
I got some really good thinking done. I had a call with Wayne, my coach. I also just got to be quiet and think about stuff.
Robert Felton [00:19:36]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:19:36]:
And then we got. We actually got a lot of work done today. Yeah, we didn't get a lot of, like, computer work done. There's a hell of a lot of that waiting for us.
Robert Felton [00:19:45]:
Oh, yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:19:45]:
But there we got a lot of thinking, thinking and talking, figuring out, like, strategy work done. So thanks for skiing.
Robert Felton [00:19:53]:
Awesome.
Jack Jostes [00:19:53]:
Let's go. We gotta go eat lunch with your parents.
Robert Felton [00:19:56]:
Yeah.
Jack Jostes [00:19:57]:
Which is really cool that they're here skiing with you.
Robert Felton [00:20:00]:
They came last year too. They're always so excited. So. Well, thank you all. Good to see you as always.
Jack Jostes [00:20:05]:
Yeah. Thanks so much for listening to today's podcast. And hey, if you'd like to have a conversation with us about the big three, about using a verbal agreement about having next step selling system and sticking to the paper and having marketing assets that generate leads and help you close more sales, reach out to Ramblin Jackson: The Snow and Landscape Marketing Agency. We'd love to have a 15-minute marketing brainstorm call with you to help you figure out who is your Hell Yes Customer? And how are you marketing to them? And is it working? And what are some tips to help you get more of those leads? Book that call with the link in our show notes. It's landscapersguide.com/brainstorm. My name is Jack Jostes, and I look forward to talking with you next week on The Landscaper's Guide.
Show Notes:
???? Watch the full episode + read the transcript:
https://landscapersguide.com/podcast/
???? Get your free Landscaper’s Marketing Toolbox (and beef jerky!):
https://landscapersguide.com/toolbox
???? Connect with your hosts:
Jack Jostes – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackjostes/
Robert Felton – https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-felton/
????Want to close more high-value landscaping jobs this season?
Book a free 15-minute brainstorm: https://landscapersguide.com/brainstorm