Do you ever take on projects or clients where you know it's going to be a bad fit later on, because you have a smaller pipeline of clients? You always know it's going to be a bad fit, but in today's video, I interview Jeffery Riddle from Alterra Landscape Design, who talks about the good that can come from saying no earlier to customers who might not be a good fit for you, and how it creates an opportunity for more yeses. My name is Jack Jostes, and welcome to The Landscaper's Guide To Modern Sales and Marketing podcast. Today, I'm super excited to interview Jeffery Riddle from Alterra Landscape Design, and let's get started.
Interview With Jeffery Riddle
Jack Jostes:
All right, folks. Here we are with Jeffery Riddle from Alterra Landscape Design in Dallas, Texas. Right now, Jeffery, somehow, I got you to fly out here to Boulder, Colorado. We're on a video set. We just shot some videos for Alterra. And for those listening or watching who don't know you, who are you? What do you do? What are you doing here?
Jeffery Riddle:
Well, I'm enjoying Boulder. I'm not enjoying the video process. I feel like a fish out of water, but I'm Jeff Riddle. I own Alterra Landscape Design in the DFW area, and we design and build beautiful landscapes.
Jack Jostes:
Well, yeah. No, you are a fish out of water. But hey, no, really. You did it. You did an incredible job today. We've got some... You even made some jokes today in your video about the reasons people hate contractors.
Jeffery Riddle:
Right.
Jack Jostes:
So, that was pretty cool, and one of the things that came out, we actually recorded a testimonial for Ramblin Jackson. We've been working together for a couple of years now. We've worked on your website. We've worked on your search engine optimization, and you've now gotten so many of qualified leads, right? Quantity and quality, that you're needing to say no to them. And that's kind of been a challenge. And so, that's one of the reasons that we're making video is to help people understand that, "Hey, there's been a freeze in the Dallas Fort Worth area, and there's a shortage of plants, and there's a huge increase in landscaping.
Jack Jostes:
So that way they understand timelines and budgets, before they call and eat up your time. But still, you're going to need to tell some people no, and I believe that's just a truth in business, whether it's employees or certainly customers. And, I know that you've got a five-star review average. You are relentless about the quality of landscape of Alterra Landscape Design. So how do you balance that, needing to say no while also wanting to ultimately serve customers and take care of people?
When It Comes To Clients, Think Quality Over Quantity
Jeffery Riddle:
Right. Well, I mean, it's tough because first of all, we love what we do. We love to help folks create beautiful outdoor spaces. And we hate to say no, but I think, for the health of our business, we have to, from time to time. And so, we like to say we're about quality over quantity. And, particularly the DFW area is notorious for quantity, the size of everything. Everything's huge. So, we want to sort of swim counter to that. And it's one of the things that makes us unique.
Jeffery Riddle:
I think it's one of the things that helps us just be attractive and just... It intrigues people, when you're sort of saying, "Hey, let's make sure there's a fit before we work together." Right now is an unprecedented time, and we're having to say, no. We're trying to do so professionally, and so we're in a kind of a unique time, but when we're in normal times, we still are trying to be very selective about who we work for, so that we can maintain the quality and run an operation that's in control and not sort of chaotic.
Jack Jostes:
Has there ever been a time where you've had that chaos happening in your business?
Jeffery Riddle:
Yeah. I think everybody has that. You let it seep in. You take on a little too much, or projects kind of stack up because the schedule or weather or something like that, and you get a taste of running out of control. And I personally, I really don't like it, and I try to avoid it at all costs, albeit you know, sometimes, we can't avoid it, but it gives you a taste of what it's like. And we don't like it.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. I don't think anybody can grow a business without having that experience, and it does feel awful having more than you can manage, or having clients who are unhappy. And also probably not making a profit during that time?
Jeffery Riddle:
Right. And it's kind of counterintuitive folks think the more volume we do, the more money we're going to make, but it can really be the opposite. So, when you run at a higher rate than your organization can handle, profits typically you go in the tank and so does morale.
Jack Jostes:
I was just going to say that, one challenge that every, really, any business faces in the trades in general is finding good people. And when you have good people on your team and you burn them out, and then you get the reputation that you burn people out, that can really make it hard to recruit. So, I think that you're on track there. So talk to us a little bit. So how do you say no? Like let's pretend that we're on the phone and I'm, "Hey, it's Jack from 123 Main Street, and we have a $10,000 budget for what you said was a $40,000 job." But we just kind of cut to the chase there, but how do you do that while being respectful? So what do you literally say to people?
Which Customers Will You Let Through The Gate?
Jeffery Riddle:
Well, I think it starts before the phone call. It's like, "Okay, who are we going to be? Are we going to be selective? Are we going to be, like we said, quality over quantity? And are we prepared? Are we ready to say no? And do we have a gate sort of, do we have a gate to get in?
Jack Jostes:
Oh, that reminds me. So, you drew something on the plane in your notebook. So open that up. Let's just take a look at it. Because you literally drew a gate, right?
Jeffery Riddle:
Right. Yeah. And when we're contemplating engaging with someone, we're looking for certain things, and that's what comprises the gate, and if you're volume-oriented, maybe your gate is a lot wider, right?
Jack Jostes:
Sure.
Jeffery Riddle:
You're not as picky about qualifying who you're going to work with. But we look for things like, is this client positive? In an initial phone call or interview, do they appear to be cooperative and warm and engaging and fair and authentic? Or is there something unique about them? Are they super price-driven? Are they already talking about price and maybe how they beat another contractor down?
Jack Jostes:
Yeah.
It Takes Courage To Wait For The RIGHT Customers
Jeffery Riddle:
So you pick up on these clues and we call them red flags, but that sort of comprises the gate. And then, we're trying to just make sure there's a fit. And if we have to, be prepared to say no, right, before you even go to these meetings and you have these conversations, and then wait for the right fit. It's sometimes hard to wait, if you need the work. You're looking at your revenue. You're looking at what you should have sold this month or last month. And sometimes it takes courage to wait.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. How do you work through that? Because every business, even successful businesses like yours, you do go through cycles or seasons or periods where the phone isn't ringing or the leads aren't good. And maybe you do have payroll to make or feed yourself or whatever. So how do you find the courage during those months?
Jeffery Riddle:
Right. Some of it's just experience where, after you've done it a while, you realize, "Hey, the work has always come. If we do the right thing and we work hard and we're good at what we do, the work is going to come." But particularly, if you haven't been in business a long time, it's a real scary feeling when you're behind revenue and you've got payroll to make. But I try to stay faithful and remember that I've always had the work at the end of the day, and just trust the process.
Jack Jostes:
It definitely is hard to do. And I find that in those moments of fear or when you lower the bar and you let people in the gate that you have a feeling it's going to be a bad fit.
Jeffery Riddle:
I can make this work. It won't be that bad. Hey, and I don't want to project that here, that I'm totally fearless, because I've been doing this a long time. I have lots of gray hair in the hair I have, but I get fearful, and I've been doing it a long time. I still have those moments where I'm going, "We have got to get another project or two sold." And I am very tempted to let down sort of the standards, if you will, and widen the gate. And when I do, I'm usually sorry that I did.
And it's never failed, right after you take on
a project, do you know you probably shouldn't?
Here comes a really good one right behind it, and you're like,
"Golly, should've waited."
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Well, so wait it out, and you've got to generate enough demand. So that's one of the things about marketing is that, doing marketing allows you to be pickier and to have a more of a funnel coming in. So that way you can pick and choose even a higher volume of the right fits, what we call your hell yes customer.
Jeffery Riddle:
Yeah. And that's tough because you got to spend the money on marketing and planning the... What you call the tree of good fortune, but getting roots in the ground and your foundation built in your marketing that creates the opportunity to be more selective.
Jack Jostes:
Yeah. Right on. One of the things that we did today was... You brought also in your notebook was a list of things that people hate about contractors. So I want to roll a clip. We already recorded it. So you got to hear Jeffery talking about the reasons people hate contractors.
Construction Is Like Making Sausage
Hey it's Jeff Riddle with Alterra and I have bad news... we've determined that construction is like making sausage: if you watch the process too closely, you never eat it again. The good news is we've made a list of the top 10 things people hate about contractors and here they are:
- They cheat
- They don't communicate
- They're dirty and messy
- They cost too much
- Their quality is low
- They're late/they're not timely
- They're incompetent
- They're inefficient
- They don't listen
- They have bad breath
So we're determined not to do any of those things. We're not perfect, no, but at least we're aware of these things and we are going to try as hard as we can not to do these things and we're gonna make sure your experience with Alterra is much better than you've ever experienced with any other contractor. Now I'm gonna share with you our process to make the experience better than you've ever experienced with any other contractor.
Jack Jostes:
All right everyone. Thanks so much for checking out today's episode of The Landscaper's Guide To Modern Sales and Marketing podcast. See the show notes where I link up to Jeffery's website, where you can check it out. And I look forward to talking to you next Friday.